Strategy Where are we going as a football team?

[MarkT2]

We are right where a poorly run organisation with unaccountable administration would put any club. The board appointed by the ex president can't turn around the ship it already sunk. We need wholesale change off field before we can really improve.

On filed we have some serious issues. We have a very thin list which Nick Daicos cannot resurrect single handedley. The list is getting worse based on the age profile of the talent. That's not surprising when the last 5 first round picks walked, or rather were pushed, out the door last trade period for little of value in return. It's hard to see how we can achieve much this off season beyond adding Nick Daicos. We are in need of a key back, at least 1 key forward and a coupe of mids with good footskills and pace and then we'll have to replace Pendlebry and Sidebottom. That's a couple of years of outstanding drafting and trading and then a wait for development. Based on the displayed skills of the team in charge of that it's a long shot.

It's time to start again on and off field.

 

[Sea fog]

We are right where a poorly run organisation with unaccountable administration would put any club. The board appointed by the ex president can't turn around the ship it already sunk. We need wholesale change off field before we can really improve.

On filed we have some serious issues. We have a very thin list which Nick Daicos cannot resurrect single handedley. The list is getting worse based on the age profile of the talent. That's not surprising when the last 5 first round picks walked, or rather were pushed, out the door last trade period for little of value in return. It's hard to see how we can achieve much this off season beyond adding Nick Daicos. We are in need of a key back, at least 1 key forward and a coupe of mids with good footskills and pace and then we'll have to replace Pendlebry and Sidebottom. That's a couple of years of outstanding drafting and trading and then a wait for development. Based on the displayed skills of the team in charge of that it's a long shot.

It's time to start again on and off field.

Keane or Kelly as key backs?

 

[Creampie69]

The problem this club has has with its supporters is that they can never accept that going backwards can be the start of going forward. I’m happy for the club to not play finals for the next few years, develop some kids, get great draft picks with trading De Goey, and possibly Grundy, or get him to take a pay cut, and look at a 5 year plan of challenging for a premiership. Start rebuilding in the draft this year with Daicos, next 2 years with key talls, midfielders 2 years after that and then free agency. Only keep the players you believe you can challenge for a premiership in 5 years time. Bottom out, go backwards and then get aggressive.

 

[jathanas]

The problem this club has has with its supporters is that they can never accept that going backwards can be the start of going forward. I’m happy for the club to not play finals for the next few years, develop some kids, get great draft picks with trading De Goey, and possibly Grundy, or get him to take a pay cut, and look at a 5 year plan of challenging for a premiership. Start rebuilding in the draft this year with Daicos, next 2 years with key talls, midfielders 2 years after that and then free agency. Only keep the players you believe you can challenge for a premiership in 5 years time. Bottom out, go backwards and then get aggressive.

Is hard to embrace that long term thinking but I agree.

Seeing kids develop over time has its own rewards. Watching Pendles and Daisy roam the ground in their first couple of years was fun, and so was the feeling that we were headed in the right direction.

 

[jmac70]

Is hard to embrace that long term thinking but I agree.

Seeing kids develop over time has its own rewards. Watching Pendles and Daisy roam the ground in their first couple of years was fun, and so was the feeling that we were headed in the right direction.

It’s hard to embrace thinking that trading Grundy and JDG is a good idea.

 

[jathanas]

It’s hard to embrace thinking that trading Grundy and JDG is a good idea.

I'd consider trading both of them for the right deal, what are you wedded to?

That's not what I was agreeing with though. It was an inprinciple agreement to delayed gratification. Willingly taking a step back in order to go 2 forward.

 

[jmac70]

I'd consider trading both of them for the right deal, what are you wedded to?

That's not what I was agreeing with though. It was an inprinciple agreement to delayed gratification. Willingly taking a step back in order to go 2 forward.

No more Treloar style deals thanks.
As for the delayed gratification idea, this is hardly new. I would say that Geelong are a club reluctant to take that path, not Collingwood.

 

[Creampie69]

Exactly. Everyone needs to embrace the the thought developing a premiership team instead of challenging for a premiership. Buckley May be the person as he renewed the playing list and was 1 kick away from winning it in 2018. But new blood may be the answer if you’re going to rebuild. The key key is to getting the majority of your list at the 50-200 games at the one time.

 

[stormskye]

I’d rather bottom out and build a dynasty capable team with draft picks than continually finish middle of the road, hoping to “snag” a flag.

 

[Go Woods]

Pies’ new reality after ‘botched' move; lesson for under-fire skipper: Rd 4 Talking Points

Pies’ new reality after ‘botched' move; lesson for AFL’s most under-fire skipper: Talking Pts

www.foxsports.com.au

 

[Collingwood2022]

Up the proverbial creek I would say.

 

[Scud2]

Backwards, the sad reality is that this incarnation of Collingwood died in the 2019 prelim.

 

[jathanas]

No more Treloar style deals thanks.
As for the delayed gratification idea, this is hardly new. I would say that Geelong are a club reluctant to take that path, not Collingwood.

Who suggested a Treloar type deal? Those words are yours.

Delayed gratification in the context of the conversation is embracing the short term pain of backing youth. Do you think we're doing that? I think we are somewhat but not to the extent that our circumstances warrant.

 

[augie]

I think the Club needs to open up to the supporter base or face the prospect of that base starting to abandon the Club.

I would like them to admit the mistakes they have made and move on the people who made them. No one who was involved in the decisions that saw us need to shed so much salary in one hit should survive. Ned Guy came to us as an expert in list management at the end of 2017. He had to be involved in the Treloar contract structure, the Beams recruitment, the Grundy negotiations and the De Goey negotiations. No one involved in such incompetence can expect to hold their job on an organization of our size.

Derek Hine must have also had a hand in those matters. I don't see how he survives either.

Things will turn around, and I think it will happen more quickly than some are estimating. There is a core there. Even with Roughead and Howe getting towards the end the backline is very strong. Even though he is ridiculously overpaid, Grundy is quality. The real questions are the youth we have and the youth we bring in. We know nothing about the first part because our coach and selectors don't play them. But their hand has now been forced. There will be 6 changes this week with at least 2 to debut. And this will give me hope even as we get belted.

 

[sr36]

We are right where a poorly run organisation with unaccountable administration would put any club. The board appointed by the ex president can't turn around the ship it already sunk. We need wholesale change off field before we can really improve.

On filed we have some serious issues. We have a very thin list which Nick Daicos cannot resurrect single handedley. The list is getting worse based on the age profile of the talent. That's not surprising when the last 5 first round picks walked, or rather were pushed, out the door last trade period for little of value in return. It's hard to see how we can achieve much this off season beyond adding Nick Daicos. We are in need of a key back, at least 1 key forward and a coupe of mids with good footskills and pace and then we'll have to replace Pendlebry and Sidebottom. That's a couple of years of outstanding drafting and trading and then a wait for development. Based on the displayed skills of the team in charge of that it's a long shot.

It's time to start again on and off field.

We really need to cross our fingers that we have already recruited a few mids amongst Macrae, Reef, Rantall, Poulter and Bianco. And a couple of talls amongst Keane, Kelly, Tohill, Wilson and McMahon. But even then the bottom half of the ladder beckons for the next couple of years.

 

[Toecrusher]

The problem this club has has with its supporters is that they can never accept that going backwards can be the start of going forward. I’m happy for the club to not play finals for the next few years, develop some kids, get great draft picks with trading De Goey, and possibly Grundy, or get him to take a pay cut, and look at a 5 year plan of challenging for a premiership. Start rebuilding in the draft this year with Daicos, next 2 years with key talls, midfielders 2 years after that and then free agency. Only keep the players you believe you can challenge for a premiership in 5 years time. Bottom out, go backwards and then get aggressive.

I understand what you're saying, but going backwards always brings the risk of staying down. I'd be far more confident in us going backwards, if we hadn't recently witnessed so many list management issues - Treloar, Phillips, Steveo, Beams, Wells, Mayne (Mundy). We've needed a key forward for years and we spent that money on Beams & Grundy.

Sorry, too many bad decisions recently for me to be comfortable going backwards, but it looks like that's where we're heading.

 

[Doc1763]

This thread is about the direction of Collingwood, might get more responses posting this in the main AFL board thread

It was a damn good post though.

 

[Doc1763]

No more Treloar style deals thanks.
As for the delayed gratification idea, this is hardly new. I would say that Geelong are a club reluctant to take that path, not Collingwood.

2 flags since 1958, that's delayed gratification for you.

 

[Kappa]

The bloke who was willing to put the team's success before his own pay cheque was chucked out the door as soon as we could, whilst simultaneously leaking stories to the media about him and his family to put public pressure on his family to relent and leave the club that he loves. Utterly disgusting.

We are ****ed, Buckley is a fool, Ned Guy is a fool, Robert Harvey is a fool. Our team is old slow and devoid of any hunger or passion, I've said this for a long time but we seriously need a 3-4 year complete rebuild and try to make top 4 again when De Goey Moore Crisp Adams ect are the old blokes and we desperately need some first round draft picks in.

There's so many problems with how our footy department is run it's hard to list them, our list manager and his ******* moronic contracts he gives people:
Wells 4 years
WHE 4 years
Dayne Beams

11

Dayne Beams

Age

34

Ht

187cm

Wt

88kg

Pos.

Mid

Career

Season

Last 5

D

25.6

5star

K

13.2

5star

HB

12.4

5star

M

4.5

4star

T

3.6

5star

CL

4.9

5star

No current season stats available

D

15.6

4star

K

6.6

3star

HB

9.0

5star

M

4.6

5star

T

2.6

4star

disaster
Grundy 7 years 7 million
Treloar disaster
Stephenson disaster
Cox and Phillips on close to 600k each WTF??

Then we constantly have to pay absolute premium for every player we bring in at the trade table, whilst the players we lose we're force to give away for dirt cheap (Witts Phillips Stephenson Aish Treloar ect ect)


Then you have the coaching issue, how Robert Harvey still has a job is a modern mystery, the bloke can barely string a basic sentence together and our midfield has always underperformed under him yet we never try anyone else, all our good assistants get poached and we're stuck with him.

Then you have the rehab issue (although it appears better recently) the amount of soft tissue injuries we've gotten over the past 4 years, and then those players reinjuring the same muscle when trying to come back is easily top 4 in the AFL, probably number 1. Treloar Elliot Moore De Goey Adams ect, all crucial players who have missed more matches than they should have due to poor management.

I don't care if we struggle, as long as we're actually developing kids and not just doing the exact same moronic s**t and running out with the exact same mature age useless spuds like Thomas WHE Mayne Brown Greenwood ect. This season is so frustrating because we're just wasting the year and falling further behind our rivals.

Rant over.

 

[Doc1763]

Then you have the coaching issue, how Robert Harvey still has a job is a modern mystery, the bloke can barely string a basic sentence together and our midfield has always underperformed under him yet we never try anyone else, all our good assistants get poached and we're stuck with him.

The man is a legend at St Kilda, but they wouldn't have him as an interchange steward. But we cant sack Buckley because he's a club legend!!
They have Ratten, we still have Buckley.

 

[pablo disco bar]

2013 draft and trading 4 x first round picks for treloar and beams have ruined us..

Then using pick 5 on a blome we showed the door..unforgivable...to top off should have naughton..

I say trade de goey and hit the draft...ffs get it right

 

[Doc1763]

2013 draft and trading 4 x first round picks for treloar and beams have ruined us..

Then using pick 5 on a blome we showed the door..unforgivable...to top off should have naughton..

I say trade de goey and hit the draft...ffs get it right

No point doing that while the current blonks are in charge, they'll just stuff it all up again.

 

[Matrix10]

Some tough decisions and home truths need to be made at Collingwood, the club needs to refresh and reset, we are directionless at the moment, granted Wright has pretty much just arrived at the club and will be doing his homework and due diligence over every department within the club, the moment will come and the penny will drop , He is pretty much hamstrung by previous arrangements and contracts already signed prior to him returning back home too Pieland
Our list management is woeful and no where near professional enough for a club of our standing and financial power base, it is the laughing stock of the competition.
Our coaching panel , the less said the better, Buckley and his 2 best mates are like clones of each other, they lack imagination and courage to be bold and daring , it seems they suck the life out of the players natural flair and attacking instincts
Our forward line lacks talent , big time , count our lucky stars we have a great backline, or we would be blown out of the water weekly, C Brown, WHE , J Thomas don`t cut the mustard , never will , M Cox is hit or miss, , shows up 1 game in every 5 , gradually when they are ready, I want to see the debutant McCreery joined by McCrae,Murphy, Poulter, McCinnes,McMahon, Wilson,Bianco, Keane , out with the tried and failed, C Brown, Mayne, Madgen, Greenwood, J Thomas, Hoskin Elliott, ,cut our losses and off load Grundy, any player on a million dollars a year and says " my career will not be defined by a premiership" should be asking themselves, why am i playing for ? to have the neatest pony tail in the league, why did you demand the big bucks Brodie ? to be second best, you are what you aspire to be ? and your aspiration and goals should be to win the ultimate, that`s what the true million dollar match winners do
And please, no more favourite sons as coaches, look elsewhere,did the Matthews and Malthouse appointments not teach us anything !
Over to you Graeme Wright

 

[Matrix10]

Its hard to tweak and find new styles the way the game is played and umpired now?

Sydney nailed it in one off season

 

[stormskye]

Sydney nailed it in one off season

They also keep and use their first rounders