Which player do you miss the most?

[Knightmare]

Peter Daicos would be in the discussion for an all time AFL second team, but even then I'd probably more likely fit him into my all time AFL third team. He'd be a long way off making my all time first team.....
I may be old...but if you can show me a better or effective forward pocket than Daics then I'll stand corrected (oh and please don't suggest Leigh Matthews because "lethal" played FF in his latter years.)

A front half of an all time AFL first team could be made up of P.Hudson, Lockett, Dunstall. Ablett SNR and Matthews.
Ok...if you want to pick a forward line of all Full Forwards.....where is Gordon Coventry or Pratt or Todd or Coleman?? it's either stats based or it's not? Cos that forward line would have no defensive capability at all....great players all of them but all competitive marking FF's, not modern forwards at all?

I'd also have Coleman, McKenna, Pratt, Coventry, K.Bartlett and Wade ahead of Daicos as forwards, and they'd all make my all time AFL second team. And that's before going through all the midfielders who could easily start forward.
Seriously Knighter? "Hungry" wasn't good enough to tie Peter Daicos's boots mate...compare him to an outside runner please, a Craig Bradley or a GAJ.....but never Daics. One was an artist bamboozling entire defences by himself....the other ran into untold numbers of goals handballed over the top to him by Cloke, Balme, McLean....etc (ewww that comparison makes me shudder)

As for Leigh Matthews. He can play wherever he likes on any team. And likely would be a rotational mid/fwd with his scoreboard impact. He provided too much scoreboard impact not to be used forward of centre.
Totally agree he could play anywhere mid to forward but as his career was 80% as an onballer that'd be where he should play I'd contend.

Bob Skilton can kick as well as he wants. At 171cm while as per my previous post, greats of any era and can great in any era, he would not be as great because at that size, it's not going to be as easy to get as much ball when today's mids are bigger, stronger and more athletic than those Skilton played against.

You're using the Usain Bolt argument Knighter...he's the biggest, fastest human being there's ever been and if footy was just about athleticism...you'd be right....but its not and it never has been and Bobby Skilton, Barry Cable, Thorold Merrett, Robbie Flower, Greg Williams and many more great small players would be just as great today. Puopolo goes alright...and Skilts is probably ten times the player Poppy is. These blokes had far more "nous" than today's players and whilst they're not as big...they'd still get the ball because of their natural abilities and in Skilton's case he'd use it better than 99% of today's players. Train them up to be just as fit and they'd still be guns today.

I'll take guys with size and skill over small guys with just skill anyday. I'd rather have a guy who as well as being able to kick can win high volumes of contested ball and take a grab.
So I'm guessing Gavin Brown would have been too small? He'd beat any three of your tall midfielders in a fight for the ball Knighter....small maybe....big heart....you can't breed that!

Players who kicked 100 goals, 10 or more years ago would not today provide the same scoreboard impact. There is more pressure around the ball making it harder for those kicks into the forward 50 to be as precise. Defenders are taller, bigger and stronger, and also much more attackative looking more to play from in front. There are zones stopping forward movement leading to lower scoring games. In the back half, defenses now are smart enough to clog up space and not allow easy marks on the lead as was possible in previous eras. It's not longer as simple as kick it to the go-to-guy and let them go to work. The game has gone such an incredibly long way past that.

And yet in your all time AFL forward line you picked exactly that: guys who kicked 100 goals more than ten years ago?
Just for the record...Plugger would have allowed guys to take up the space in front of him for about 3 seconds....then bodies would have been getting dismembered! Abblett too was most unapologetic in dealing with players trying to block his space (he nearly took Micky Gayfer's head off one day at the G)
Hudson would have loved a defender playing in front of him....he edged defenders under the ball all the time anyway!
And coaches setting up zones in front of these guys would have run the risk of losing 2-3 players a quarter through collision injuries. Dunstall, Lockett, Ablett....they wouldn't miss a chance to cork or knee opponents standing there as marking bags! Forwards today could take a leaf out of their books...if a bloke blocks your path to a mark...he gets moved!

Contested ball is an area that translates in all eras, and you are right that it was more of a pure contested ball winning game previously, particularly with less numbers around the ball. But you underestimate the size of the bodies today. Midfielders today are bigger than we've seen in previous eras, and the average players in all positions are substantially taller and with it bigger bodies. These bodies do a lot more damage than the bodies of yesteryear. So you'd find today's midfielders for contested ball winning in the most part would come out on top.
Again great midfielders who could win the contested ball in their era could also do the same today. But they'd have a harder time doing it as easily today. That's for sure.
You only have to talk to past players about how much more the bumps and tackles hurt, and how much harder it is v the bigger bodies of today.

I agree that contested ball players from any era would continue to enjoy the contest. But Skilton, Murray, Whitten and Arthur weren't just ordinary players from their day. They were the Fyfe's, Rance's, Carey's and Pavlich's of their era. In today's footy these blokes would revel in the contest just like Tony Shaw would. They dealt with pain themselves mate!
Look at Magro's hit on Jezza or Voss's on Richo....blokes back then knew how to inflict and absorb pain. They'd have handled today's hits Ok as well.

I'd line up an ultimate front half of:
F: Hudson Lockett Dunstall
HF: Ablett SNR Carey Matthews

And just make it work by letting them alternate their leading patterns and clear out for one another and have the class through the midfield to give the forwards such great service that they can continue to take their marks inside 50, rather than needing to worry about it getting out the other side.

If I'm looking for a small forward. Matthews would be that guy, and Ablett SNR while not small, could easily do that. Matthews as a sub 180cm forward/mid can easily play in a forward pocket if you so desired. He is more than talented enough as I'm sure you'd agree.
The usage of Matthews would be wonderfully interesting on an All Time Team. And the case could be more than made that he play as a midfielder. That's why I'd start him on a forward flank and rotate him through the midfield and the other midfielders forward.
You can argue any number of things with Matthews and you wouldn't be wrong.

Pratt, Todd and Coleman all would be in that conversation as among those greatest forwards. But it depends on what you value. I value the work over the course of the career. And would take a 200 or 250 game superstar over a 90 game superstar. Of those with Pratt playing more he would be well in that mix for the second team.

I'm not as much a fan of modern forwards, though Pavlich, Riewoldt and Brown are all terrific and those best current forwards.

My theory with forwards is if you take the mark, there is no chasing. And that's where the premium would be placed, with these guys able to take advantage of those forward 50 entries taking marks, then converting in front of goal. Then it's just smart coaching to work out the spacing in the front half, and the alternating of leading patterns.
As great players, I'd back them in to work it out. And if the midfield gives them suitable delivery. They'll take maximum advantage of those forward 50m entries.

I agree with your idea that the great midfielders who could win the ball in the past still can today. My argument instead is that it's harder v the bigger bodies of today to do so as easily, to the very same level. My suggestion is that if you were once dominant in whatever era, you can still today. But there would be an element of drop-off. Particularly with those smaller options, with should be made obvious by how few if any star small midfielders there are in the game today.
While there were less teams and more greats on each team it could be argued, if you break down the teams of today into smaller teams, the players of this era overall would win. Not so much on pure star power, but instead more evenness and more extremely high level players, and taller, bigger high level players.

Brown would be fine v today's midfielders. He isn't too short or too small at all. He's just be deemed average height/average size. And that's more than fine if you're good enough.

You've incidentally summarised very well why I'd love many of those forwards in my all time front half. Again the right spacing would be required, which would be the primary challenge. But get them going on long leads and having others push into the forward 50. And I'd love to see these guys dominate.
As I've consistently said. Greats of any era can dominate. And for scoreboard impact, you'll never get better than Lockett, Dunstall, Hudson, Carey, Ablett and Matthews when talking about career achievement.

Just as through the midfield it's hard to beat Buckley, G.Williams and Ablett JR. Madden and Cox as my ruckmen. And so on elsewhere.

 

[4tone]

Daicos Didak Davis BT S Rocca A Rocca. love the goal kickers.

 

[PieNSauce]

I have enjoyed reading this thread very much because to me so many of the opinions seem quite odd. That said, I certainly respect those opinions because we are all different and this thread is a great testament to that fact.

For me, Daicos will likely always be my number one choice because of his sheer wizardry which I believe was matched by his ability in nearly all of the traditional football skills. What people tend to forget is that besides his ability to kick the most freakish goals from the acutest angles, he was probably the finest exponent of the torpedo punt I have ever seen and in fact was the only player that Leigh Matthews gave permission to use it. Who could forget the urging of the crowd at Vic Park when Daics was 60m+ from goal and deciding whether or not to pass. I don't recall this kind of crowd-player interaction on such a scale with any other player ever. It always seemed to me that he would be looking for a closer option to pass to but the crowd was telling him quite specifically that he should take the shot. He very often did and with amazing success. I also don't recall too many players who would cause such a buzz in the crowd when he was skirting a pack anywhere forward of centre because his mere presence always seemed to make opposition players fumble through sheer panic. Such was his aura and no other player compares IMO.

Much as I loved Bucks, and was in awe of his ability, I put him slightly further down the list because in his early years I didn't think he was much of a team player. Not in the sense that he didn't play for team success but more in the sense that he appeared to believe that he was the best option for every task when in my view, he would have been more value had he occasionally recognised the value of being the decoy to allow other players more time and space. Clearly he worked on and changed that later in his career and that is a credit to him. It's a small knock on a great player and just a personal opinion so please don't shoot me down. Indeed, he has become such a student of the game that when he speaks now, people listen because he rarely spouts crap like so many other coaches. I doubt that there have been many other players in the history of the game who were so focused on self-improvement.

 

[loki04]

Buckley closely followed by 02/03 Tarrant and then "Neon" Leon "Magic" Davis.

 

[Mukesh]

Of all the players that you have ever watched while supporting the Pies, which is the one you miss the most?

If you could pick one player to return to the current team, who would it be and why?

What is your favourite memory of that player?

There is really only one legitimate answer to this question. Mr Peter Daicos. Favourite memory ? Having a brief chat to him one day down at Geelong when he was out injured and for some crazy reason he decided to spend the day in the outer with his girlfriend....

 

[Palmer Stoat]

Buckley for me.

 

[PiesUserName]

Buckley and Sav Rocca

 

[jjsmitty8]

Alan Didak for me!

One of my favourite moments ever was when I was 11, and on this particular day in 2003, it was a Qualifying Final against Brisbane, it was the day Dids came onto my radar as one of my favourite players.

10 minutes left, a point down, a run and a bounce then a raking left boot from near the boundary on the 50 arc gave us the lead. Pebbles kicked the next one, then minutes later Shane O'Bree hits Dids on a lead, who then goes back an slots a beautiful right to left bending drop punt from the boundary line and seals the game! Will always be one of my fondest memories of footy as a kid.

 

[jjsmitty8]

Whilst I'm here, this bloke was a rockstar. If I had to guess, my mum took this photo of Bucks and I probably 12-13 years ago at a Family Day at Vic Park lol. It was sometime during Jarrod Molloy's time because I've got one with him too lol.

 

[sirlothie]

Bucks looks like hes from the Matrix in the above photo.

Neon Leon is a good call, miss his magic.

 

[Burns2008]

stan THE MAN magro..3...

 

[Daicos Daze]

Tuff Nutt from the south and a Folklore hero in black and white.........


DARREN MILLANE

 

[GoPies1972]

Haven't read all the posts, but I think a poll might be good.
For me it's Peter Daicos and Leon Davis (especially loved his kickins in his last year with us and of course the goals).

 

[Leviathan Pie]

James Clement