Who has a better forward line: WB or ESS

[eth-dog]

Ah, my bad.

Pears was a forward as a junior as an aside

 

[Ambrosia]

Thats the thing though, Carlisle made his name as a full back and is a great talent, played some good games forward but also played some shockers. Now you know your list better then I BUT I would be worried if I was expecting Carlie and Danhier being your main avenues to goal.
.

Name one?

 

[eth-dog]

Name one?

Bulldogs game

 

[Jade]

So what do you think you forward 6 would look like ?

Like most clubs we'd rotate a dozen or so players through, but I think this is a fair crack at a 'starting' six:

HF: Winderlich - Daniher - Zaharakis
FF: Chapman - Carlisle - Merrett

Tall rotations (of those realistically likely to be in the best 22) Ryder, Bellchambers, Hurley.
Smalls and mids (those that are in the 22 and generally show a bit up forward) likely Watson, Goddard, Myers, Melksham, Stanton.

I think we are a bit weak in small forwards. We don't really have a Rioli, Garlett, Motlop damaging player (at least not one we can rely on).

 

[Ambrosia]

Bulldogs game

Forgot about that one

Although Tiger71 's post made it sounds as if he was extremely hit and miss when in reality he has been better than serviceable in 80% plus of his stints up forward.

 

[ManOfClay]

Not one decent forward in either side.

Daniel Giansiracusa has over 300 AFL goals, has won games in finals off his own boot. He's been one of the most consistent small forwards of the past decade that doesn't have a rape charge to his name.

 

[Tiger71]

Forgot about that one

Although Tiger71 's post made it sounds as if he was extremely hit and miss when in reality he has been better than serviceable in 80% plus of his stints up forward.

Actually I had thought my post highlighted that he is a young and up and coming talented player who is typical of most that they can be inconsistent as they get games under there belt. I also highlighted that he played some really good games forward but also some poor ones, that was not a dig at the bloke, just a opinion.

I was trying to just say that the two young "taller" forwards, Carlisle and Daniher would need a supporting cast around them while Bell is out. That was answered quite clearly. I was NOT saying they would not perform etc

 

[Donakebab]

Bulldogs game

Shouldn't have even played after injuring himself in the warm up the week before against Port.

 

[Jade]

Bulldogs game

In fairness, the entire team played like shit in that game.

 

[ManOfClay]

Shouldn't have even played after injuring himself in the warm up the week before against Port.

Most people would have backed the club's medical staff over the opinion of a random bigfooty poster. Players are pulled from the team after the warm up if they injure themselves regularly. But you are blaming an injury in the warm up for the game before as a reason for his performance? Maybe he was just beaten that day - he is the ideal matchup for Roughead.

 

[Donakebab]

Most people would have backed the club's medical staff over the opinion of a random bigfooty poster. Players are pulled from the team after the warm up if they injure themselves regularly. But you are blaming an injury in the warm up for the game before as a reason for his performance? Maybe he was just beaten that day - he is the ideal matchup for Roughead.

Going to trust my opinion over yours as at least I remember that Talia was his opponent. It was obvious that he was struggling, but of course no club has ever made a mistake playing an injured player...

 

[aussierulesrules]

Goddard definitely not. He's finally being played as he was intended, as a damaging outside mid - and its working wonders.

Finally, you mean like he did for much of 3 of the 4 seasons leading up to his move to Essendon, including the two years when he made the AA teams and the year he came 12th in the Brownlow?

 

[Jade]

Finally, you mean like he did for much of 3 of the 4 seasons leading up to his move to Essendon, including the two years when he made the AA teams and the year he came 12th in the Brownlow?

No actually 'finally' as in, we've got him exactly where we want him why in the world would we change.

 

[ManOfClay]

Going to trust my opinion over yours as at least I remember that Talia was his opponent. It was obvious that he was struggling, but of course no club has ever made a mistake playing an injured player...

I find it hard to believe he could injure himself in one game's warmup, play that game then train all week and be cleared to play the next game.

You step over that white line you are fit.

 

[Falchoon]

Let's be honest

for the first half of the year it will be Essendon, for the second half it won't be.

 

[aussierulesrules]

I am amazed that anyone could seriously suggest the Dogs have the better Forwardline at this point.

Until Round 16 or so every single supporter would have considered us to have the worst forwardline in the league by a mile - and that includes Dogs supporters.

There was a point there in the middle of the season where our most effective forward was Lukas Markovic!

Yes, we've added Crameri, and we had a good last few weeks of the season (thanks largely to better quality midfield service) but c'mon - it's still a no contest.

The Dogs forward line is full of inconsistency - and our highs to date have not been very high. Get back to me in 12 rounds and let's re-evaluate then. But till then - Essendon.

Had to go back a fair while to find a really good post, but then I found this one. Kudos.

 

[Ridley This]

Be interesting to see how the WB tweener forward line goes

It's pretty hard to rate our current forward line given how underdeveloped a lot of the elements are. On the last 2 years it has been total shiet, but they appear to be building something a little different.

On my assesment we only have 2 stay at home forwards in our best 25: Dickson and Jones.

The following smalls play a standard tweener role:
Higgins, Cooney, Dahl, Hunter, Hrovat and Gia (obviosly a little over the hill)

Our starting Rucks have some demonstrated capacity to play as reasonable forwards:
Minson, Campbell & Roughead (when not holding down FB)

Then we have the following 190+ players being trained as tall hyrbids:
Cramari, Bontempelli, Stringer, McCrea (had a growth spurt) and Grant (who has played pretty as a wingman on occasion)

I think they've put this together with the interchange cap in mind, with some sort of swarming onfeild rotation to cause constant match-up problems. IMO it'll work pretty well in years to come, but right not it's totallty untested.

 

[Some Idiot]

I find it hard to believe he could injure himself in one game's warmup, play that game then train all week and be cleared to play the next game.

You step over that white line you are fit.

Well, Higgins did that and it turned out he had a navicular fracture.

 

[ttomred17]

At the moment, it certainly isn't ours. This thread has sucked so far. In my opinion, a much better discussion would be comparing backlines or even midfields.

 

[eth-dog]

At the moment, it certainly isn't ours. This thread has sucked so far. In my opinion, a much better discussion would be comparing backlines or even midfields.

I reckon we'd have you covered in defence comfortably, but again I think it's a development issue

 

[Dazb86]

[quote="eth-dog, post: 31518592, member: 34819"]I reckon we'd have you covered in defence comfortably, but again I think it's a development issue[/quote]

Haha nah our full back is a ruckman.

 

[eth-dog]

I reckon we'd have you covered in defence comfortably, but again I think it's a development issue

Haha nah our full back is a ruckman.

I think he'll be a solid FB given development. Fletch was a ruckman as well, and look how he's turned out

 

[ScallyWag1]

Assuming a fit Higgins and Grant, then I'd go with the Doggies by a hair this year, and by a mile going forward.

Ironically it's probably Crameri that tips the scales the Dogs way this year.

 

[Jade]

Assuming a fit Higgins and Grant, then I'd go with the Doggies by a hair this year, and by a mile going forward.

Ironically it's probably Crameri that tips the scales the Dogs way this year.

Based on what? Essendon has one of the most expansive and regarded collection of talls going round.

I rate the Dogs as a club going forward, but this comparison is utter junk - Essendon has one of the better lists in the league, and its tall forward stocks are in the top handful of clubs; they wipe the floor with the lists of the majority of clubs.

 

[ScallyWag1]

Based on what? Essendon has one of the most expansive and regarded collection of talls going round.

I rate the Dogs as a club going forward, but this comparison is utter junk - Essendon has one of the better lists in the league, and its tall forward stocks are in the top handful of clubs; they wipe the floor with the lists of the majority of clubs.

Highly regarded by whom?

You can have an astounding (debatable) array of talls, but you can't play all of them every week. Plus your best tall forward (at least in terms of goals the last few years) is now at the other club in question..

Based on how the Herald thinks they might line up this year: (I've added Carlisle to the Ess forward line as Bomber Thompson said he'd line up there, otherwise I guess maybe Hurley, and Higgins if fit I think would be in the dogs forward line).

HF: Chapman - Ryder/Carlisle - Zaharakis
F: Kommer - Daniher - Winderlich

HF: Grant - Crameri - Hunter
F: Dahlhaus - Jones - Stringer/Higgins

Well for starters, we know that Crameri is better than any of the Essendon tall forwards, since just last year he was Essendons best forward, main target inside 50, leading goal kicker multiple times, etc.

It would be fair to assume there will be incremental improvement out of the likes of Grant, Jones and Stringer given their ages, and Hunter (19 y/o) is apparently looking the goods in pre-season, but aren't they all.

Winderlich, Chapman and Ryder while playing at a reasonably high standard are not getting any better, and may actually begin to go the other way (I think Ryder has gotten progressively worse every year since about 2008, also won't he have to ruck for at least the first 3 months?). Winderlich also does not seem to be able to stay on the park. Obviously Higgins is in the same boat there.

Daniher kicked 3 goals in 5 games last year, all in a 40-odd point rout of the GCS, I don't think you can call him elite just yet. He'll no doubt improve on 2013 but I couldn't see him jumping over the likes of Crameri, if he improves at roughly the level you'd expect from a 2nd year KPF, I'd say he'd be about on par with Liam Jones next year.

I'll call Kommer/Dalhaus a wash, since dogs supporters would be annoyed that I said Dalhaus is only as good as Kommer, and bombers supporters would be annoyed that I said that Kommer is only as good as Dalhaus. Gun to my head I'd take Dalhaus but not by much.

The secret is out on Carlisle too, you started to notice late in the year (once it wasn't so much of a surprise that the full-back was at full-forward) that teams were starting to plan for him, and his output in terms of goals came right down.

I'm sure I've left out players on both sides (you can blame Sam Edmund and Scott Gullan for that), but I'd still take the Dogs this year, and given the average ages of the two forward lines above (Essendon: 24.7 - WB: 22) I'd certainly take them going forward.

You can disagree all you like and you may be right, but you can't call the comparison "utter junk"..in fact I actually favour the Dogs FWD line more now that I took the time to look into it, than I did when I just answered off the top of my head