Who should be the next senior coach of Collingwood?

[No SPIN]

Yeah I get that, but you're not taking into account that those coaches made changes within themselves and their panels to achieve success - mostly in much shorter time spans I might add. Just purely 'backing' the coach in blind faith doesn't achieve anything, there needs to be signs that improvement will come. At the moment or ever since the gf loss I haven't seen improvement to suggest a flag is likely.

You seem to be confident this improvement will happen, do you know something the rest of us don't? Do you have some inside info? Or are you just blindly hoping?

All the examples I gave came with changes by the coach, list or assistans to achieve flag success. Similarly after the 2017 review, Buckley changed his approach and the club added new assistants, and improvement ensued.
Two years of clear improvement is strong evidence that we have turned the corner, as compared to the recent claims the bad old days are back.

 

[Carringbush2010]

All the examples I gave came with changes by the coach, list or assistans to achieve flag success. Similarly after the 2017 review, Buckley changed his approach and the club added new assistants, and improvement ensued.
Two years of clear improvement is strong evidence that we have turned the corner, as compared to the recent claims the bad old days are back.

No ones claiming that didn't happen, again not improvement enough to win the flag.

There hasn't been improvement / change enough since that loss to suggest this current group with the current coaching panel can win the flag/s. What we look like as a playing style is not like it was in 2018 since that loss, it's slow and keepings off like it was previously to that.

Can you give evidence that this will change? What is is that you know that improvement / change will come to take us to flag/s?

 

[No SPIN]

Your premise is nonsense.

Williams actually won a Premiership (in his fifth year). They were top of the ladder for two seasons prior to the flag, and in the flag winning year.

Hardwick improved the team each year apart from 2016, and then they recruited Caracella and Leppitsch to modify the way they played. They have won two out of the last three Premierships, and made a Prelim in 2018, and are still in the hunt.

Thompson had too many additional duties, which is why the club hired Balme as Football manager in 2007 - to take some of the workload off him.

Clarkson won a Premiership in his first year coaching in SA, and won one with Hawthorn in his fourth year. They made finals in 2010/11, including a Prelim in 2011, then played in the next four Grand Finals and won three.

All of those clubs improved, and then stayed at that level.

That's the complete opposite of this team. And yes, whilst finals appearances aren't gifted, it doesn't matter what the Pies did last year - if Hawthorn hadn't beaten WC, there's no double chance and every likelihood of not even making the Prelim.

Good teams don't rely on luck (although they may accept it).

You forget Choco GF speech sticking it up the sponsor who wanted him sacked.
Kennet wanting Clarko sacked.
Geel and Coll supporters wanting Bomber and MM sacked.
And there was a whole alternative ticket being assembled to overturn Rich that included wanting to sack Hardwick.
So backing Coaches works.

Do you really need to keep harping on about our luck in making Top4 because Hawks best WC - it exposes your naivety, which ignores that we earned TOP 4, having been there 15/23 weeks and achieving a 68% win rate.
We would have been unlucky NOT to make Top 4 based on the consistency of the season.

 

[No SPIN]

No ones claiming that didn't happen, again not improvement enough to win the flag.

There hasn't been improvement / change enough since that loss to suggest this current group with the current coaching panel can win the flag/s. What we look like as a playing style is not like it was in 2018 since that loss, it's slow and keepings off like it was previously to that.

Can you give evidence that this will change? What is is that you know that improvement / change will come to take us to flag/s?

For a person such as yourself who is stuck on the unrealistic view that a team is not good enough unless it wins a flag, sadly there is no evidence to satisfy you of what improvement looks like.

Many teams have needed the experience of a number of final series before winning the flag - to any normal supporter that provides confidence that the team is one the right track - but for you that’s not enough.

 

[Collingwoodcrew]

Clarko coach
Dale Tapping assistant
Greame Wright list manger
Craig Kelly president

Your welcome


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[Carringbush2010]

You forget Choco GF speech sticking it up the sponsor who wanted him sacked.
Kennet wanting Clarko sacked.
Geel and Coll supporters wanting Bomber and MM sacked.
And there was a whole alternative ticket being assembled to overturn Rich that included wanting to sack Hardwick.
So backing Coaches works.

Do you really need to keep harping on about our luck in making Top4 because Hawks best WC - it exposes your naivety, which ignores that we earned TOP 4, having been there 15/23 weeks and achieving a 68% win rate.
We would have been unlucky NOT to make Top 4 based on the consistency of the season.

Again, you're just purely claiming that keeping the coach will achieve success, it requires more than that. You have to give reasons why you think our situation will turn around. Keeping the same course we are now will not achieve it.

 

[No SPIN]

Again, you're just purely claiming that keeping the coach will achieve success, it requires more than that. You have to give reasons why you think our situation will turn around. Keeping the same course we are now will not achieve it.

I’m happy with our progress, I don’t adhere to the idea that we need to “turn things around” with the sort of depth of change you want.
So we fundamentally differ on where we see the club.

 

[Carringbush2010]

For a person such as yourself who is stuck on the unrealistic view that a team is not good enough unless it wins a flag, sadly there is no evidence to satisfy you of what improvement looks like.

Many teams have needed the experience of a number of final series before winning the flag - to any normal supporter that provides confidence that the team is one the right track - but for you that’s not enough.

Teams that are not good enough to flag are not good enough to flag. That is not unrealistic that is reality.

Premierships are the end game, the sole goal for football clubs. Anything else is not what clubs exist for.

Can you give us a reason that our current group with the current coaching panel will improve / change enough to succeed? Or are you just blindly hoping?

 

[Carringbush2010]

I’m happy with our progress, I don’t adhere to the idea that we need to “turn things around” with the sort of depth of change you want.
So we fundamentally differ on where we see the club.

So you're admitting that not winning flags is satisfactory for you and you're not unhappy not winning flags.

If we don't 'turn things around' then we aren't going to win a flag, the reason I want that 'depth of change' is so we can win a flag. I don't understand how you view that as unrealistic.

 

[No SPIN]

Teams that are not good enough to flag are not good enough to flag. That is not unrealistic that is reality.

Premierships are the end game, the sole goal for football clubs. Anything else is not what clubs exist for.

Can you give us a reason that our current group with the current coaching panel will improve / change enough to succeed? Or are you just blindly hoping?

i am happy with the progress of our improvement since 2017, knowing that teams often require consecutive finals appearances before winning flags. We are on the right track IMO and massive changes including the coach is not needed

So we are in different positions on where the club stands.

 

[No SPIN]

So you're admitting that not winning flags is satisfactory for you and you're not unhappy not winning flags.

If we don't 'turn things around' then we aren't going to win a flag, the reason I want that 'depth of change' is so we can win a flag. I don't understand how you view that as unrealistic.

We have different views on what improvement we’ve had since 2017, and what the future looks like - that’s why we disagree.

 

[Carringbush2010]

i am happy with the progress of our improvement since 2017, knowing that teams often require consecutive finals appearances before winning flags. We are on the right track IMO and massive changes including the coach is not needed

So we are in different positions on where the club stands.

I'm not in the we have to change the coach camp to achieve success, the current coaching panel and the playing group have to improve / change to succeed.

We have not improved since 2018, we have regressed.

Are you content for us to not win flags? Or do you see improvement / change that will achieve that? If so what does that look like? Or are you just hoping in desperation?

 

[stormskye]

Read the post that I was responding to offering clear criteria to assess Buckley which fits . The absurd reliance on his early coaching to make the case he can’t coach, while ignoring dramatic team improvement since 2017 is hollow and naive.
It lacks credibility and insight - it’s just a straw clutching exercise with no perspective from his biased critics.

All I need to know, is next season will be 10 years with no flag. Thats simply, it’s time to go. But we can agree to disagree

 

[Carringbush2010]

We have different views on what improvement we’ve had since 2017, and what the future looks like - that’s why we disagree.

We improved after 2017 and regressed after 2018.

What does the immediate future of our club look like to you? What are the reasons you see that we will flag from our current situation? Or are you not unhappy if we don't win a flag/s?

 

[No SPIN]

All I need to know, is next season will be 10 years with no flag. Thats simply, it’s time to go. But we can agree to disagree

Yes people were saying enough is enough in 2017, and we are a far better team today.

We improved after 2017 and regressed after 2018.

What does the immediate future of our club look like to you? What are the reasons you see that we will flag from our current situation? Or are you not unhappy if we don't win a flag/s?

It’s clear you cannot be satisfied - just the fact that you need to nit pick about regressing in 2019 vs 2018 proves my point.
So on that basis you cannot be satisfied in anyway, with a view that says we are not in the dire predicament that consumes you.

 

[76woodenspooners]

Are you expecting or hoping we will improve enough to flag under Buckley? Injuries aside it doesn't look likely does it. Sure you'll bring up the if we get players back argument but rarely if ever are we at full strength - so in reality it's moot.

I believe Collingwood should have people who give the club the best chance of winning Premierships.

If there is somebody who can do that better than Buckley, then sure, I’m on board.

Apart from suggestions we poach Clarkson and Hardwick (and even then past performance is no guarantee of future success - see Hafey) I only see arguments about how to make us worse ... and we could be a lot lot worse than we are now.

The term 'doing the same thing over and over and expecting change is the first sign of insanity' or however it goes. So keeping the same coach for another year or however long without success is likely to give the same result. No success.

That doesn’t follow, because we do change, and we changed significantly after the review. We had a new list manager, new fitness boss, new medicos, new CEO ...

... and despite not being in a position to make wholesale changes to the list, the results have so far been very positive.

Yeah, we kept the senior coach. But for all the mud flung at Buckley over the years, nobody can accuse him of not changing and adapting.

 

[Carringbush2010]

Yes people were saying enough is enough in 2017, and we are a far better team today.


It’s clear you cannot be satisfied - just the fact that you need to nit pick about regressing in 2019 vs 2018 proves my point.
So on that basis you cannot be satisfied in anyway, with a view that says we are not in the dire predicament that consumes you.

How do you come that conclusion? Why would I not be satisfied with a flag/s? What is the dire predicament you speak of? We are not in a dire predicament, we have a good list that can win it, but we won't if we continue on the same path of game style.

What tells you that we're better team right now than in 2017? Remembering that there was almost zero list change the next year.

Tell us all how we've improved since 2018, I'd be interested to know how you can prove that. Or are you accepting that we probably won't flag but we'll be thereabouts and that's ok? Or do you know something or see something that suggests we will? What is that? Or are you going to continue avoiding the question?

I'm curious what your position is, up to this point you're not giving anyone any reason or what you want this list achieve. Can you tell us what is satisfactory for you?

 

[Carringbush2010]

I believe Collingwood should have people who give the club the best chance of winning Premierships.

If there is somebody who can do that better than Buckley, then sure, I’m on board.

Apart from suggestions we poach Clarkson and Hardwick (and even then past performance is no guarantee of future success - see Hafey) I only see arguments about how to make us worse ... and we could be a lot lot worse than we are now.



That doesn’t follow, because we do change, and we changed significantly after the review. We had a new list manager, new fitness boss, new medicos, new CEO ...

... and despite not being in a position to make wholesale changes to the list, the results have so far been very positive.

Yeah, we kept the senior coach. But for all the mud flung at Buckley over the years, nobody can accuse him of not changing and adapting.

Ok I'll make my position clear, I'm not in the camp of changing the coach, I'm in the position of if we continue the way we are we won't win it.

I'd argue he has got the potential out of our list and game plan, on the back of changes to his approach and the panel and the new staff you've mentioned. And I doubt any other coach would've done better.

In any case we don't have a flag, that's the end game. That is the sole focus of football clubs.

Can we win it if we continue the way we are? No. Period. So what is it that tells us that we are on the path to change to achieve success? I don't see any signs that required change is coming.

 

[domus]

i am happy with the progress of our improvement since 2017, knowing that teams often require consecutive finals appearances before winning flags. We are on the right track IMO and massive changes including the coach is not needed

So we are in different positions on where the club stands.

On the right track? By what evidence do you draw that conclusion?

 

[Harry O]

Clarko coach
Dale Tapping assistant
Greame Wright list manger
Craig Kelly president

Your welcome


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

Kelly is Buckley’s manager....

 

[Robroy22]

All the examples I gave came with changes by the coach, list or assistants to achieve flag success. Similarly after the 2017 review, Buckley changed his approach and the club added new assistants, and improvement ensued.
Two years of clear improvement is strong evidence that we have turned the corner, as compared to the recent claims the bad old days are back.

All its evidence of is that WE NEED really good assistant coaches and somehow once again we've kept the ones we didn't need and shipped the others off....
COVID 19 and season 2020 has really illustrated that Bucks needs really innovative people around him, not just his mates.

 

[Collingwoodcrew]

Kelly is Buckley’s manager....

Awkward!


Sent from my iPhone using BigFooty.com

 

[No SPIN]

On the right track? By what evidence do you draw that conclusion?

look at my previous posts

 

[No SPIN]

All its evidence of is that WE NEED really good assistant coaches and somehow once again we've kept the ones we didn't need and shipped the others off....
COVID 19 and season 2020 has really illustrated that Bucks needs really innovative people around him, not just his mates.

which assistants did we wrongly get rid of?
COVID has caused dislocation in ways I was not aware - apparently we haven’t had a training session for 4 the weeks prior to this week due to the compressed fixture.
Less than ideal when you also have injuries impacting team cohesion.
Hard to play together if you can’t train together.

 

[No SPIN]

How do you come that conclusion? Why would I not be satisfied with a flag/s? What is the dire predicament you speak of? We are not in a dire predicament, we have a good list that can win it, but we won't if we continue on the same path of game style.

What tells you that we're better team right now than in 2017? Remembering that there was almost zero list change the next year.

Tell us all how we've improved since 2018, I'd be interested to know how you can prove that. Or are you accepting that we probably won't flag but we'll be thereabouts and that's ok? Or do you know something or see something that suggests we will? What is that? Or are you going to continue avoiding the question?

I'm curious what your position is, up to this point you're not giving anyone any reason or what you want this list achieve. Can you tell us what is satisfactory for you?

You keep asking the same questions - I’ve answered them previously.
We differ on where we stands as a club that’s clear.
I don’t believe things are as bad as you think - nor that massive change is need before we can win a flag.
And Ive made this point continually which you chose to ignore.
Of course flags are the ultimate objective, but it’s absurd to use this disclocated season to suggest our hyper competitiveness of the last 2 years is gone.