Who was the better player? Tim Watson or Doug Hawkins ?

[King Bont]

Both played a lot of footy and were two of the best during the 80's. Both finished with over 300 games.

 

[Oraaaaazio]

Both played a lot of footy and were two of the best during the 80's. Both finished with over 300 games.

Did you vote for Doug Hawkins? Being 23 I assume you didn't see any of either

 

[King Bont]

Did you vote for Doug Hawkins? Being 23 I assume you didn't see any of either

Nah I didn't vote. Only seen highlights of both players on YouTube. Just looking at the stats it did seem that Watson did put up bigger numbers in better sides.
But I don't always think that should be the be all and end all to who is the better player.

 

[Trav 20]

They're not like for like. Watson was the powerful goal-kicking ruck-rover, who would burst clear of a pack and Dougie was the better skilled wingman with beautiful balance and evasive skills.

For overall value to his team and impact it's hard to go past Watson.

 

[Jade]

With the greatest of respect to Dougie, this is not a fair comparison - Watson a significantly better player.

 

[Monkey King]

With the greatest of respect to Dougie, this is not a fair comparison - Watson a significantly better player.

Agree with this. Dougie was a freaking awesome player in the mid-80's and I think his playing the fool on various footy shows over the years might detract from how some view him as a player, but Timmy Watson was a total beast for a number of years before he did his knee. Starred in the 84' premiership and could have snagged a Norm Smith, was Brownlow favourite a couple of times along the way too - takes my vote without a second thought.

 

[Jade]

Agree with this. Dougie was a freaking awesome player in the mid-80's and I think his playing the fool on various footy shows over the years might detract from how some view him as a player, but Timmy Watson was a total beast for a number of years before he did his knee. Starred in the 84' premiership and could have snagged a Norm Smith, was Brownlow favourite a couple of times along the way too - takes my vote without a second thought.

Same reason I think Brownless is a bit underrated.

Not an out and out star by any stretch, but was a pretty bloody good footballer.

 

[Procrastinator35]

With the greatest of respect to Dougie, this is not a fair comparison - Watson a significantly better player.

Pretty much this.

 

[La Vache]

Not an out and out star by any stretch, but was a pretty bloody good footballer.

Surely you're not talking about Hawkins here?

Mick malthouse rates him as the best player he ever coached. Fair enough if you reckon Watson was better but a significantly better player? Wouldn't have thought so.

 

[Jade]

Surely you're not talking about Hawkins here?

Mick malthouse rates him as the best player he ever coached. Fair enough if you reckon Watson was better but a significantly better player? Wouldn't have thought so.

Actually I was talking about Brownless - perhaps I didn't structure the sentence correctly so it made sense.

 

[footyfan1978]

Both played a lot of footy and were two of the best during the 80's. Both finished with over 300 games.

Dancing Dougie for me.
Watson was good but not that good.
Most of his career Hawkins played in a cellar dwelling team and was a club barely seen on tv as a result. If he was playing with same saturation coverage as now he would have been seen by a lot more supporters of all clubs. Most of us that saw footy in 1980's would have seen a lot of Carlton, Hawthorn, Essendon, Geelong, Fitzroy, Collingwood, North and Richmond players but players from Dees, Bulldogs and Saints in particular were at a disadvantage in seeing as much as their clubs were often in bottom 4 and probably see a quarter of one of their games on channel 7 once every two months if lucky. Hence Dougie not seen as much as Watson to appreciate how talented dancing Dougie was. Thankfully I started going to games in early 1980's so saw him in person play live and he was one of most skillful footballers seen. Least I saw him twice a season when we played Dogs.

 

[footyfan1978]

Nah I didn't vote. Only seen highlights of both players on YouTube. Just looking at the stats it did seem that Watson did put up bigger numbers in better sides.
But I don't always think that should be the be all and end all to who is the better player.

Got to respect someone for not voting because they feel they did not see enough of to get a true feel of each players worth.

 

[Jade]

Got to respect someone for not voting because they feel they did not see enough of to get a true feel of each players worth.

I'm old enough to have seen more than enough of both - actually spent a great deal of time at the Western Oval due to my proximity to it.

Watson was better.

I'd say 'IMO', but I genuinely don't think that's an opinion - he simply was. And that is not a disrespect to Dougie in any way.

 

[footyfan1978]

Watson was better.

- he simply was.

Red and black eyes I see.

 

[Jade]

Red and black eyes I see.

If I said Lloyd was better than Daniel Bradshaw is it red and black eyes?

Sometimes things just are.... Dougie was a bloody good player, but Watson was better.

 

[krisholio14]

Dancing Dougie for me.
Watson was good but not that good.
Most of his career Hawkins played in a cellar dwelling team and was a club barely seen on tv as a result. If he was playing with same saturation coverage as now he would have been seen by a lot more supporters of all clubs. Most of us that saw footy in 1980's would have seen a lot of Carlton, Hawthorn, Essendon, Geelong, Fitzroy, Collingwood, North and Richmond players but players from Dees, Bulldogs and Saints in particular were at a disadvantage in seeing as much as their clubs were often in bottom 4 and probably see a quarter of one of their games on channel 7 once every two months if lucky. Hence Dougie not seen as much as Watson to appreciate how talented dancing Dougie was. Thankfully I started going to games in early 1980's so saw him in person play live and he was one of most skillful footballers seen. Least I saw him twice a season when we played Dogs.

Dougie is also right up there for me in terms of skillful footballers I've seen. His disposal by hand or foot in particular were as good as any in the comp. Underrated player in the bigger scheme of things outside of Footscray supporters.

Having said that, hard to go past Tim Watson. He was an out and out game breaker.

 

[Gone Critical]

I'm old enough to have seen more than enough of both - actually spent a great deal of time at the Western Oval due to my proximity to it.

Watson was better.

I'd say 'IMO', but I genuinely don't think that's an opinion - he simply was. And that is not a disrespect to Dougie in any way.

You may need to recheck the definition of opinion

 

[footyfan1978]

Sometimes things just are....

biased.....

Vote in the poll. All good. Just do not expect me to be convinced of different opinion of Dougie being better by repeating what is already your invested opinion.

 

[Gone Critical]

I agree players like Doug Hawkins didn't get enough exposure so are potentially underappreciated. Still Watson shone very brightly and was so dynamic and a game changer. He gets my vote.

As an aside it was even worse for players in the 60's and 70's and I think especially of Garry Wilson. Worse again in the pre TV era.

 

[Jade]

biased.....

Vote in the poll. All good. Just do not expect me to be convinced of different opinion of Dougie being better by repeating what is already your invested opinion.

And if I was, say, a Richmond supporter?

Watson was a better player. The fact that I am an Essendon supporter is a coincidence in this case.

Hence the Lloyd/Bradshaw comparison I made - just because I support the club the guy was associated with, doesn't make me any less right. No one can seriously rate Hawkins higher than Watson, and I again repeat my utter respect for Dougie as a player.

 

[footyfan1978]

I agree players like Doug Hawkins didn't get enough exposure so are potentially underappreciated.

As an aside it was even worse for players in the 60's and 70's and I think especially of Garry Wilson. Worse again in the pre TV era.

Gary Wilson would have been seen a lot more than Dougie Hawkins.
Fitzroy games were on tv a lot in early to mid 1980's.
Saw of lot of their stars like Gary Wilson, Bernie Quinlan, Micky Conlan, Gary Pert etc etc. They were in quite a few finals campaigns. Dogs on other hand I only remember making 1985 finals series and rest of 1980's there were barely on tv during whole season. Fitzroy would have been on quite a lot in comparison. Easily saw more of Wilson on tv than Hawkins. BTW, Wilson probably better than either of Hawkins and Watson. Robbie Flower probably had them all covered. What a player he was. Shame his side was shit nearly every season he played.

 

[krisholio14]

Gary Wilson would have been seen a lot more than Dougie Hawkins.
Fitzroy games were on tv a lot in early to mid 1980's.
Saw of lot of their stars like Gary Wilson, Bernie Quinlan, Micky Conlan, Gary Pert etc etc. They were in quite a few finals campaigns. Dogs on other hand I only remember making 1985 finals series and rest of 1980's there were barely on tv during whole season. Fitzroy would have been on quite a lot in comparison. Easily saw more of Wilson on tv than Hawkins. BTW, Wilson probably better than either of Hawkins and Watson. Robbie Flower probably had them all covered. What a player he was. Shame his side was shit nearly every season he played.

Only problem was that we only started seeing Wilson towards the end of his career. If he was as good as he was at that point when we finally did get to see more of him, how good was he prior to that?

Fortunately, we used to get to see a bit of Melbourne no matter how crap they were because they played at the G and that was always the best ground to televise a match from. Which meant we got to see plenty of Robbie Flower during his career. Talk about a rose (or a tulip) in a sea of diarrhea.

 

[footyfan1978]

Only problem was that we only started seeing Wilson towards the end of his career. If he was as good as he was at that point when we finally did get to see more of him, how good was he prior to that?

Fortunately, we used to get to see a bit of Melbourne no matter how crap they were because they played at the G and that was always the best ground to televise a match from..

huh at second part. I don't think the channel 7 coverage of matches was decided by the ground it was played at. It was more or less decided by trying to put the 3 best games on the replay on Saturday night.

As for Wilson. I cannot recall when he started. I started watching footy in 1978 so I not sure when he started but felt like I saw a lot of him. Can't remember when he retired. Surely he was playing in 1986 when Fitzroy eliminated Essendon at Waverley. Remember being at the final in the wet. I swear Wilson was playing then. How many seasons before 1978 to Wilson play. It seems from what you are saying he started in late 1960's or something.

 

[Gone Critical]

Gary Wilson would have been seen a lot more than Dougie Hawkins.
Fitzroy games were on tv a lot in early to mid 1980's.
Saw of lot of their stars like Gary Wilson, Bernie Quinlan, Micky Conlan, Gary Pert etc etc. They were in quite a few finals campaigns. Dogs on other hand I only remember making 1985 finals series and rest of 1980's there were barely on tv during whole season. Fitzroy would have been on quite a lot in comparison. Easily saw more of Wilson on tv than Hawkins. BTW, Wilson probably better than either of Hawkins and Watson. Robbie Flower probably had them all covered. What a player he was. Shame his side was shit nearly every season he played.

I disagree. Wilson started in 1971 and was a star of the 70s mainly. Fitzroy didnt make finals in his career until 79 and played 7 finals for 2 wins in the years he played at the club, mostly his twilight years

Hawkins also played through an era when the Dogs played a total of 7 finals for 2 wins interestingly. Difference was in the 70s (Hawkins played 78-94) football on the TV consisted of footy replay on Sat night where quarter was replayed form 2 different matches, hardly ever Fitzroy or the Dogs. There would be hardly any footage even made of Wilson and his career and any that was there has largely been wiped by Channel seven. Hawkins finished his career a decade later when the amount of vision from each match had increased a lot so we ended up seeing much more of him on the screen in my recollection.

There is hardly ant tape left of footy matches from the 70s and very little was taped in the 1st place.

 

[footyfan1978]

There is hardly ant tape left of footy matches from the 70s and very little was taped in the 1st place.

oh you are talking of tapes. You are probably right on that front in terms of finding it now.
I was speaking of perspective of what I saw in real time of the 80's. I would have watched or recorded every Saturday night replay show so any time Fitzroy was on in 1980's I would have seen plenty of Wilson, Conlan and Quinlan. Barely saw Dogs matches in that period.
From memory channel 2 had the Winners late at night to record on channel 2. They had encore version on Sunday and at some stage I also remember them having a two hour show on Sunday mornings where saw more extended replay of matches they covered. Most of them quite similar to channel 7 games but done by their own commentators and cameras. Footy coverage changed in 1987 when 2 more clubs began and Friday night and Sunday football started to become more a regular football diet. Before then it was essentially the replay shows to watch which I made sure I saw them all. As a Carlton supporter was spoilt as we were on it nearly every week because we never missed finals until 1989.