Why are we not talking about this?

[MyManLynch]

Holy shitballs. Where is Cervantes? Remind me to never visit. Incredible that this person could represent any group that doesn’t wear a pillow case with eyeholes cut out.

200km North of Perth.
Small fishing town, population 527.
Obviously a place where Dinosaurs go to die.
I trust the good community of Cervantes will put their President out to pasture.

 

[The Ghost of the KPF]

200km North of Perth.
Small fishing town, population 527.
Obviously a place where Dinosaurs go to die.
I trust the good community of Cervantes will put their President out to pasture.

Now now, don't you realise holding awful people to account for being awful is actually "cancel culture" and they are the real victims?

How dare you contribute to cancel culture

for shame

 

[The Royal Sampler]

If we're arguing about Australia, and it seemed we were, then it isn't wrong at all to say that the overwhelming majority of soldiers were not conscripts:

I’m not doubting your knowledge on conscription specifically, merely the point you were trying to make. Whether by conscription, coercion or gross misrepresentation of what was being risked by enlisting, hundreds of thousands of Australians were killed in global conflicts they stood to gain little from personally. They were not in an empowered position, those who were survived frequently had their lives irrevocably changed for the worse, and to the point of near-exclusion they were men.

And yet we do not talk about that power imbalance. Presumably because those who were in power at the time were also men? Perhaps just because that’s the way it’s always been.

But it is wrong, and it’s an example, along with incarceration rates, suicide rates, and other areas of imbalance domus has mentioned where males are on the worse end of it, of “gendered” issues which to discuss as gendered issues is taboo in modern society. I don’t know why that is. And certainly we can rally around eradicating prostate cancer, for example, without fear of reprisal or having the usual clichés thrown in your face. It is peculiar, and peculiarly unhelpful.

But back to our regularly scheduled program, because I’m more than happy to address the issues faced specifically by women in making their mark in what has long been a male-dominated sport…

 

[Markfs]

Well if it's too hot in the kitchen then don't cook.

Not "might", "are" is the word you are looking for.

They should be trained to not take it to heart given it wouldn't matter who was wearing the umpires kit it is generally not personal.

They could have robots in and people would still make those quips.

Again this is not in reference to the stuff in that article but the primary school insults and sookingbat decisions.

Kids have been sensitive to school insults for generations...it's not just the current generation...so we havent been training for a long time.

and i suppose the best way to stop insults in the current environment is to punch the person. It worked at school when i was a kid. I saw that dinosaur katter say that every child needs to be given a gun....then give everyone a gun and maybe people wont say unnice things if they know that person is likely to point a gun at them...

we are basically animals, maybe we should just stay in the hot kitchen and see who comes out alive.

and personally, i think that will happen. We are wired to be aggressive and we are on this road to self-destruction and maybe the rich will come out of it alive but I wont be here to worry about any of it.

 

[JB1975]

I’m not doubting your knowledge on conscription specifically, merely the point you were trying to make. Whether by conscription, coercion or gross misrepresentation of what was being risked by enlisting, hundreds of thousands of Australians were killed in global conflicts they stood to gain little from personally. They were not in an empowered position, those who were survived frequently had their lives irrevocably changed for the worse, and to the point of near-exclusion they were men.

And yet we do not talk about that power imbalance. Presumably because those who were in power at the time were also men? Perhaps just because that’s the way it’s always been.

But it is wrong, and it’s an example, along with incarceration rates, suicide rates, and other areas of imbalance domus has mentioned where males are on the worse end of it, of “gendered” issues which to discuss as gendered issues is taboo in modern society. I don’t know why that is. And certainly we can rally around eradicating prostate cancer, for example, without fear of reprisal or having the usual clichés thrown in your face. It is peculiar, and peculiarly unhelpful.

But back to our regularly scheduled program, because I’m more than happy to address the issues faced specifically by women in making their mark in what has long been a male-dominated sport…

I'll try not to be longwinded, because I don't want to further derail a thread I've already done such a good job of derailing.

I've never diminished the costs of war. The point I was making to domus is one I stand by, that men have largely chosen to go to war in this country.

So much was taken from those blokes, but I'm not about to deny them the dignity of their free choice, that they willingly went to war because they decided it was the best thing to do.

Were they in possession of all the facts? No, but few people know the future and the details of what they're getting themselves into. Was there social and peer pressure, especially in WWI? No doubt it played a part. Was Empire and Nation a good reason to lay down your life? Probably not, but that's just my opinion and many of the old guard would be mortified by it.

But whatever circumstances shaped their decision, they did have a choice, and for me it is much more than a side-piece in a broader argument to acknowledge that choice. They deserve it.

If anyone wants to have a conversation about incarceration rates or suicide rates or whatever it might be, then I'll be happy to derail another thread in the future with my thoughts. I've never doubted that these aren't serious issues.

I was longwinded, wasn't I.

 

[Markfs]

Holy shitballs. Where is Cervantes? Remind me to never visit. Incredible that this person could represent any group that doesn’t wear a pillow case with eyeholes cut out.

I live south of that seaside metropolis in a spot called perth. You actually have to take a detour off the main highway to geraldton to get to cervantes - its so exclusive.

 

[Markfs]

I'll try not to be longwinded, because I don't want to further derail a thread I've already done such a good job of derailing.

I've never diminished the costs of war. The point I was making to domus is one I stand by, that men have largely chosen to go to war in this country.

So much was taken from those blokes, but I'm not about to deny them the dignity of their free choice, that they willingly went to war because they decided it was the best thing to do.

Were they in possession of all the facts? No, but few people know the future and the details of what they're getting themselves into. Was there social and peer pressure, especially in WWI? No doubt it played a part. Was Empire and Nation a good reason to lay down your life? Probably not, but that's just my opinion and many of the old guard would be mortified by it.

But whatever circumstances shaped their decision, they did have a choice, and for me it is much more than a side-piece in a broader argument to acknowledge that choice. They deserve it.

If anyone wants to have a conversation about incarceration rates or suicide rates or whatever it might be, then I'll be happy to derail another thread in the future with my thoughts. I've never doubted that these aren't serious issues.

I was longwinded, wasn't I.

i'm not going to war unless i see alex waislitz's sons on the front line next to me...

 

[The Royal Sampler]

I'll try not to be longwinded, because I don't want to further derail a thread I've already done such a good job of derailing.

I've never diminished the costs of war. The point I was making to domus is one I stand by, that men have largely chosen to go to war in this country.

So much was taken from those blokes, but I'm not about to deny them the dignity of their free choice, that they willingly went to war because they decided it was the best thing to do.

Were they in possession of all the facts? No, but few people know the future and the details of what they're getting themselves into. Was there social and peer pressure, especially in WWI? No doubt it played a part. Was Empire and Nation a good reason to lay down your life? Probably not, but that's just my opinion and many of the old guard would be mortified by it.

But whatever circumstances shaped their decision, they did have a choice, and for me it is much more than a side-piece in a broader argument to acknowledge that choice. They deserve it.

If anyone wants to have a conversation about incarceration rates or suicide rates or whatever it might be, then I'll be happy to derail another thread in the future with my thoughts. I've never doubted that these aren't serious issues.

I was longwinded, wasn't I.

You make a good argument, but saying “they made their choice” rightly didn’t wash when it was actresses giving Harvey Weinstein or Roger Ailes a blowjob, it doesn’t wash with me for adolescents going to war for King and Country.

 

[MyManLynch]

I live south of that seaside metropolis in a spot called perth. You actually have to take a detour off the main highway to geraldton to get to cervantes - its so exclusive.

Also famous for it’s Stromatolites at Lake Thetis.

 

[JB1975]

You make a good argument, but saying “they made their choice” didn’t wash when it was actresses giving Harvey Weinstein or Roger Ailes a blowjob, it doesn’t wash with me for adolescents going to war for King and Country.

I'm not saying that they weren't deluded. It is a tragedy of that Edwardian period that it was a culture of imperial adventure which was little more than British propaganda, creating a generation or two of Kipling devotees who jumped at the chance for adventure.

And I agree that they had little or no grasp of what they were heading for. War had largely been about set-piece battles, a rather more civilised affair than the endless mire of trench warfare and artillery bombardment. Maybe the US Civil War was a distant cousin of WWI-style warfare, but that wasn't part of our thinking.

It was a war which maimed bodies and shredded minds. They had no idea. But they were brave or foolhardy or fiercely patriotic or just foolish, and they jumped into the fire because war relies on such things.

The thing is, as fine as the distinction may seem to others, I think that conscription for overseas service is a different type of barbarity enacted by the state, and the particular evil of it needs to be distinguished from everything else.

 

[JB1975]

i'm not going to war unless i see alex waislitz's sons on the front line next to me...

The power of your obsession with Alex is such that it should be bottled...and then they should hit you over the head with the bottle.

 

[Markfs]

The power of your obsession with Alex is such that it should be bottled...and then they should hit you over the head with the bottle.

i just put the references in for my fans...

 

[Markfs]

Also famous for it’s Stromatolites at Lake Thetis.
View attachment 1391572

i havent actually been there but i've had something to do with cray fisherman in exmouth and they're around freo too. Rugged boys who get a ton of cash during the season and then splash it on various hobbies...

stroms known as the pinnacles. you take a four wheel drive bus up there from perth and run into them and flatten them and then laugh......just kidding

 

[The Royal Sampler]

The thing is, as fine as the distinction may seem to others, I think that conscription for overseas service is different type of barbarity enacted by the state, and the particular evil of it needs to be distinguished from everything else.

Fair enough. State enacted discrimination is particularly lamentable, whether it be conscription, withholding the vote, access to opportunity etc.

I have a soon-to-be teenager among my kids, and I feel ill-at-ease about him going on public transport on his own. The thought of him being able to enlist to fight in a foreign war in five years (or often fewer!) is beyond the pale… and kids back then didn’t even have access to the internet to understand what war was about, they only had propaganda. Similarly we worry about young men becoming radicalised by nefarious groups who use ideology and propaganda to recruit. Those people are not capable of making an informed decision.

As a health professional I have to be so careful about informed consent; I have a patient who only just discovered she had fractured her hip, and while she thought her pain was coming from her back and she didn’t want back surgery, I had to tread the fine line between telling her what decision to make, and letting her stand on ceremony and choose to be bed-ridden the rest of her life. There is almost no level of information you could provide that would satisfy me, that a young adult with no prior armed conflict experience can make an informed decision to give their life in a global war.

 

[Markfs]

gee i wonder who named this thread... it seems to be open to interpretation

 

[JB1975]

i just put the references in for my fans...

You and domus, so generous and reliable in playing all the old hits. I've enjoyed watching this virtual romance unfold over the years.

 

[JB1975]

Fair enough. State enacted discrimination is particularly lamentable, whether it be conscription, withholding the vote, access to opportunity etc.

I have a soon-to-be teenager among my kids, and I feel ill-at-ease about him going on public transport on his own. The thought of him being able to enlist to fight in a foreign war in five years (or often fewer!) is beyond the pale… and kids back then didn’t even have access to the internet to understand what war was about, they only had propaganda. Similarly we worry about young men becoming radicalised by nefarious groups who use ideology and propaganda to recruit. Those people are not capable of making an informed decision.

As a health professional I have to be so careful about informed consent; I have a patient who only just discovered she had fractured her hip, and while she thought her pain was coming from her back and she didn’t want back surgery, I had to tread the fine line between telling her what decision to make, and letting her stand on ceremony and choose to be bed-ridden the rest of her life. There is almost no level of information you could provide that would satisfy me, that a young adult with no prior armed conflict experience can make an informed decision to give their life in a global war.

I think that I share your concerns, or most of them.

My concern in this thread was that, as soon as attention was brought to issues experienced by female umpires, a predictable few popped up to say 'hey, how about the men?'

The next thing you know, a reasoned discussion about some very specific issues is hijacked by a catalogue of complaints on behalf of men, which is very much the intention of those who want to keep those issues in the background.

I have little time for fringe dwellers who complain about the injustices of family law, but there might be some things worth looking at. I'm troubled that some men are so lost in their own pain that they can see no solution other than suicide. That's worth investigating. It troubles me that my son has often asked me why masculinity is toxic, and we should work harder to make sure that our young people don't feel toxic.

However worthwhile it is to discuss these things, I'm somewhat aggrieved that they are reactively brought up in relation to a completely different issue, as a ploy to drown out the starting point of conversation.

I'm not at all accusing you of this. You seem like a beautiful and strangely reasonable sort of human.

 

[The Royal Sampler]

^ I agree with everything you just said, and I don’t wish to divert the thread from its intent any further, so I will now bow out. Cheers.

 

[Markfs]

You and domus, so generous and reliable in playing all the old hits. I've enjoyed watching this virtual romance unfold over the years.

I have also hung on every episode of your beautiful journey with the sampler... it reinstills my faith in the male sex

 

[The Royal Sampler]

I have also hung on every episode of your beautiful journey with the sampler... it reinstills my faith in the male sex

It’s an erotic journey from Milan to Minsk.

 

[Markfs]

It’s an erotic journey from Milan to Minsk.

which explains why you two move seamlessly as if choreographed by a kardashian....armenian....belarussian....but arent we all basically russian inside.

 

[The Royal Sampler]

which explains why you two move seamlessly as if choreographed by a kardashian....armenian....belarussian....but arent we all basically russian inside.

Dunno. Big news if true?

 

[gouki88]

which explains why you two move seamlessly as if choreographed by a kardashian....armenian....belarussian....but arent we all basically russian inside.

 

[Markfs]

english isnt my first language....i feel embarassed

 

[Pie eyed]

Why? If you f’ed up at your work would you think it fair for people you call you things like 'maggot' and 'scum'? I like that you think human decency = AFL BS.

I have tried my best to no longer play the man (or umpire) since the end of last year, because I came to the realisation that it was just me being a childish campaigner with no control over my emotions.

If my sole job was to interpret a set of fairly simple rules in an unbiased manner then yes....I would expect to get the sack.
If you don't want to be in the limelight don't be a senior umpire.
I personally don't go in for the "respect" bullshit.
Respect is earned.
Period.
Can be lost and can be revoked.

Again I will point out that it is other umpires off field being criticized by the umpires in the above story. not the players, not the general public or football fans.
There are an handful of dickheads making sexist remarks true, They should be ejected.
Again sexism and sexual abuse. not Umpire abuse.

“Umpire dissent is a very small part of what is an issue here. In our study, it was so small, that was really not such a big issue for the participants.

“I think it [dissent] is probably something that people can understand, and if they frame it like this is the major problem for umpires, then it shifts responsibility away from the AFL and on to spectators and clubs. When, actually, the AFL has some responsibility to make these spaces safe and inclusive for everyone.

“The bigger issue for them was that away from the football field - at training or before games or after games - it was their fellow umpires or coaches. There’s very little in this study that talked about players, and them [the umpires] having issues with players. It was really about the culture of the actual umpiring groups.”