Why boycotting Israel matters

[fishardansin]

Disgusting post. Absolutely putrid.

Tell that to my grandmothers face you coward

I'll tell it to Norman Finklestein's face.

The holocaust was one of the worst crimes in the history of humanity. Obviously not to the scale of European settler-colonialism, but the worst I know of on the next level. The fact that it was then the justification of a European settler-colonial state in the aftermath of Ottoman rule in the Levant is a blight on all of humanity.

"Never again" doesn't mean "never to us again". It means never to anyone.

 

[fishardansin]

Palestinian terrorists knife to death innocent Israelis in cold blood whilst Gaza celebrates handing out sweets (recent attacks over the last months)
Bigfooty: crickets

An AJ reporter shot in crossfire with there yet to be a full investigation about how it occurred, and the Palestinian authority refusing to disclose key evidence:
Bigfooty: evil Israel rabble rabble

Terrorists Murder 3 Israelis Using Hatchets and Knives, Palestinians Celebrate with Sweets

A pair of Palestinians killed three people in a terror attack in central Israel Thursday night while Israelis were celebrating Independence Day.

www1.cbn.com

The distinct clear bias. The disgusting anti Israel smearing is truly abhorrent. It is absolutely terrible an innocent reporter was killed. But where we’re you all of you when innocent Israelis were stabbed and shot by Palestinians the last few weeks? What kind of morbid culture hands out sweets to celebrate when innocent civilians are hatched to death with knives? The Palestinians. I ask - Why is a reporter’s life more important than innocent civilians killed by Palestinian terrorists? Let’s wait and see what what the investigation shows because if it is found an idf soldier killed the reporter then let the weight of justice fall on the soldier. Meanwhile you were all silent when Palestinians killed innocent Israeli civilians over the last few weeks of terror attacks whilst Palestinians celebrated with joy.

My cousin was stabbed to death by a Palestinian whilst being a paramedic. I then read this absolute rubbish on a footy forum putting 100% blame on one side. You all have truly no idea of the situation. There is no 100% blame on one side. Tell that to my uncle and Aunty , who lost their son because out of blatant anti semitism/anti Israel blood thirsty terrorism.

You all have absolutely zero f*n clue how much the Palestinian leadership care for the situation. They hate Jews and Israel more than they’re love to start a country. A dead Jew is more joyous than peace. Wake the fk up. There is s**t on both sides, but I can’t sit here, read this absolute drivel… absolute ignorance by all of you and not say something.

Most on both sides want peace but the distinct thorn on this whole process is Palestinians refuse the acceptance of the existince of Israel and that is the core of this entire conflict.

All my cousin wanted to do was help people. But a Palestinian wanted a to kill a Jew. I guess, to all of you… his life meant nothing. fu** you all

It is a bit like the anti-nazi resistance that had a large Jewish membership. They did some horrible things, but it was in the effort of fighting genocidal occupiers.

 

[Zidane98]

It is a bit like the anti-nazi resistance that had a large Jewish membership. They did some horrible things, but it was in the effort of fighting genocidal occupiers.

It's actually nothing like it at all. There's no genocide for a start and to compare it with 6 million Jews being exterminated really is appalling. Quite frankly it is a bit disturbing to hear someone posting pro terrorist views on this forum which is what you've done.

 

[Saint]

Palestinian terrorists knife to death innocent Israelis in cold blood whilst Gaza celebrates handing out sweets (recent attacks over the last months)
Bigfooty: crickets

An AJ reporter shot in crossfire with there yet to be a full investigation about how it occurred, and the Palestinian authority refusing to disclose key evidence:
Bigfooty: evil Israel rabble rabble

Terrorists Murder 3 Israelis Using Hatchets and Knives, Palestinians Celebrate with Sweets

A pair of Palestinians killed three people in a terror attack in central Israel Thursday night while Israelis were celebrating Independence Day.

www1.cbn.com

The distinct clear bias. The disgusting anti Israel smearing is truly abhorrent. It is absolutely terrible an innocent reporter was killed. But where we’re you all of you when innocent Israelis were stabbed and shot by Palestinians the last few weeks? What kind of morbid culture hands out sweets to celebrate when innocent civilians are hatched to death with knives? The Palestinians. I ask - Why is a reporter’s life more important than innocent civilians killed by Palestinian terrorists? Let’s wait and see what what the investigation shows because if it is found an idf soldier killed the reporter then let the weight of justice fall on the soldier. Meanwhile you were all silent when Palestinians killed innocent Israeli civilians over the last few weeks of terror attacks whilst Palestinians celebrated with joy.

My cousin was stabbed to death by a Palestinian whilst being a paramedic. I then read this absolute rubbish on a footy forum putting 100% blame on one side. You all have truly no idea of the situation. There is no 100% blame on one side. Tell that to my uncle and Aunty , who lost their son because out of blatant anti semitism/anti Israel blood thirsty terrorism.

You all have absolutely zero f*n clue how much the Palestinian leadership care for the situation. They hate Jews and Israel more than they’re love to start a country. A dead Jew is more joyous than peace. Wake the fk up. There is s**t on both sides, but I can’t sit here, read this absolute drivel… absolute ignorance by all of you and not say something.

Most on both sides want peace but the distinct thorn on this whole process is Palestinians refuse the acceptance of the existince of Israel and that is the core of this entire conflict.

All my cousin wanted to do was help people. But a Palestinian wanted a to kill a Jew. I guess, to all of you… his life meant nothing. fu** you all

I think everyone thinks both sides are at fault to various degrees. Israel steals land and ethnically cleanses parts of Palestine. Palestinians commit acts of terrorism. Both are bad. Both need to stop. Seems to me like Israeli leaders hate Palestinians and the State of Palestine as much as the Palestinians hate the state of Israel.

I think mostly the criticism is aimed at Israel because for the most part, the world's powers, mainstream press and historic reporting has been mostly on the Israeli side. They're better resourced, better politically connected and overall winning as they steal more land year by year and Palestinians die at a much greater rate than Israelis throughout the conflict.

It's worth waking up people to the fact that if Israel wasn't stealing land on an ongoing basis, there would be a lot less terrorism.

You should have a word to the Settlers about why they want to violently steal and occupy land when they know it will lead to violent retaliation on other Israelis. It's a bit like Russians wondering why Ukrainians are killing their troops.

 

[Zidane98]

Not true about the land. Hamas wants complete destruction of Jews & Israel completely. They dont even recognise Jews as people.

Settlers are arseholes but the response of terrorism, promoting of suicide bonbers and generally bombarding Israel with missiles can never be justified.

 

[strauchnyy]

I think everyone thinks both sides are at fault to various degrees. Israel steals land and ethnically cleanses parts of Palestine. Palestinians commit acts of terrorism. Both are bad. Both need to stop. Seems to me like Israeli leaders hate Palestinians and the State of Palestine as much as the Palestinians hate the state of Israel.

I think mostly the criticism is aimed at Israel because for the most part, the world's powers, mainstream press and historic reporting has been mostly on the Israeli side. They're better resourced, better politically connected and overall winning as they steal more land year by year and Palestinians die at a much greater rate than Israelis throughout the conflict.

It's worth waking up people to the fact that if Israel wasn't stealing land on an ongoing basis, there would be a lot less terrorism.

You should have a word to the Settlers about why they want to violently steal and occupy land when they know it will lead to violent retaliation on other Israelis. It's a bit like Russians wondering why Ukrainians are killing their troops.

I appreciate the tone you have unlike most here. Always happy for debate with shades of respect.

Couple points I strongly disagree with tho.

1. I would argue that the worlds mainstream press is strongly pro Palestinian / anti Israel. The amount israel cop from left leaning media, anything remotely Muslim (Arab based) is sickeningly anti Israel. Headlines like “israeli police shoot Palestinian” to cover stories were police gun down a knife wielding terrorist who just went on a fatal stabbing spree are common. Bella Hadid, an Arab American Insta follow has on many occasions demonised Israel… she has triple the followers of the entire Jewish population. Yes there’s some pro Israel media outlets but it us ‘cool’ to be an Israel basher these days… the media is a lot more pro Palestinian (sometimes disgustingly approving of terrorism levels pro Palestinian). You can seek out whatever story you look for I guess but strongly disagree the worlds media is pro Israel. That’s factually incorrect.

The other thing about your post is you say words of “Clensing part of Palestine”. Firstly, where do you mean? What is Palestine? You mean Gaza or West Bank territory? The rest is Israel. Next, what cleansing? The Palestinian population has been growing exponentially year on year… opposite of cleansing. I do agree with you re settlers… have no time for those religious nuts. However, I’m a believer that if you’re a citizen of Israel (Jew or Arab) you should be able to leave wherever you want (and you do as an Israeli Arab). If you’re a Jew you should be equally allowed to live in the West Bank or should it go only one way?… what I’m against is settlers encroaching on land not legally theirs due to bulldhit biblical reasons. No argument from me there.

I also disagree with your sentence about there’d be less terrorism if Israel had less land. The Palestinians will never stop terrorism against civilians while half of them are driven by Hamas/Islamic jihad. In fact israel gave Palestinians Gaza (first land ever given for the Palestinians to autonomously run in history) and did israel get less terror? The opposite happened. No matter what israel do, there will always be a significant Palestinian population driven by hate to eradicate Israelis/Jews.

 

[Saint]

I appreciate the tone you have unlike most here. Always happy for debate with shades of respect.

Couple points I strongly disagree with tho.

1. I would argue that the worlds mainstream press is strongly pro Palestinian / anti Israel. The amount israel cop from left leaning media, anything remotely Muslim (Arab based) is sickeningly anti Israel. Headlines like “israeli police shoot Palestinian” to cover stories were police gun down a knife wielding terrorist who just went on a fatal stabbing spree are common. Bella Hadid, an Arab American Insta follow has on many occasions demonised Israel… she has triple the followers of the entire Jewish population. Yes there’s some pro Israel media outlets but it us ‘cool’ to be an Israel basher these days… the media is a lot more pro Palestinian (sometimes disgustingly approving of terrorism levels pro Palestinian). You can seek out whatever story you look for I guess but strongly disagree the worlds media is pro Israel. That’s factually incorrect.

The other thing about your post is you say words of “Clensing part of Palestine”. Firstly, where do you mean? What is Palestine? You mean Gaza or West Bank territory? The rest is Israel. Next, what cleansing? The Palestinian population has been growing exponentially year on year… opposite of cleansing. I do agree with you re settlers… have no time for those religious nuts. However, I’m a believer that if you’re a citizen of Israel (Jew or Arab) you should be able to leave wherever you want (and you do as an Israeli Arab). If you’re a Jew you should be equally allowed to live in the West Bank or should it go only one way?… what I’m against is settlers encroaching on land not legally theirs due to bulldhit biblical reasons. No argument from me there.

I also disagree with your sentence about there’d be less terrorism if Israel had less land. The Palestinians will never stop terrorism against civilians while half of them are driven by Hamas/Islamic jihad. In fact israel gave Palestinians Gaza (first land ever given for the Palestinians to autonomously run in history) and did israel get less terror? The opposite happened. No matter what israel do, there will always be a significant Palestinian population driven by hate to eradicate Israelis/Jews.

There's been clear demarcation for years and Israeli settlers keep pushing the boundaries and the Israeli state keeps sending in the troops to "protect" the settlers. (Yes, I'm talking about the West Bank.) It's not about religion, it's about nationality. Arab Israelis are allowed to live in Israel because that's where they're from. These settlers occupying Palestinian lands are from Israel or Europe, they're not from the West Bank and returning home (except in their imaginary biblical sense, which is obviously nonsense).

I think you might be right about the media at the moment being pro-Palestinian, but I think that's because the only media orgs left in the area are arabic ones who mostly favour the Palestinian narrative, but also likely because of our individual media bubbles. I'm sure if I read Jerusalem Post it'll tell me what brave police were bashing people carrying a coffin. Most of the mainstream international media (who are pro-Israel) seem to have left, got sick of the same story over and over. One side never mentions the terrorism, the other side never mentions the ethnic cleansing.

And I call it ethnic cleansing because that's exactly what these settlers are actively doing. They want all non-Jews out of East Jerusalem and the West Bank (and after that it will be Gaza). They say it over and over and the Israeli Govt actively supports them. If the Israeli state stopped supporting the settlers and withdrew them from Palestinian areas, a lot of the trouble would be reduced.

Obviously the hardest stage is for the Palestinian economy to get up and running so that young people from Palestine have hope for the future and can channel their energy towards hope rather than hatred from the oppression of the occupation. That will take lifting of parts of the occupation, which in turn needs to have the settler issue sorted so that blow-back is reduced.

I didn't say terrorism would be reduced if Israel had less land. I state that it would be reduced if Israel stopped stealing more and more land with state sanctioned military support.

 

[Saint]

Not true about the land. Hamas wants complete destruction of Jews & Israel completely. They dont even recognise Jews as people.

Settlers are arseholes but the response of terrorism, promoting of suicide bonbers and generally bombarding Israel with missiles can never be justified.

And Jewish settlers want all Arabs kicked out of the West Bank and East Jerusalem and are actively doing it. Settlers are not just arseholes, they're committing the UN definition of ethnic cleansing (not genocide).

Nobody is promoting terrorism. There's a difference between acknowledging the cause of terrorism and condoning or promoting it. Hamas are mostly awful, but they'll keep winning elections as long as Israeli settlers give them an ongoing reason to hate them.

Don't forget the Israeli state was founded on exactly the same type of terrorism against the British Occupiers. There are museums for it across Israel. But I don't accuse the Israeli state of promoting terrorism (even though they pretty much are by maintaining these museums).

 

[Zidane98]

There's been clear demarcation for years and Israeli settlers keep pushing the boundaries and the Israeli state keeps sending in the troops to "protect" the settlers. (Yes, I'm talking about the West Bank.) It's not about religion, it's about nationality. Arab Israelis are allowed to live in Israel because that's where they're from. These settlers occupying Palestinian lands are from Israel or Europe, they're not from the West Bank and returning home (except in their imaginary biblical sense, which is obviously nonsense).

I think you might be right about the media at the moment being pro-Palestinian, but I think that's because the only media orgs left in the area are arabic ones who mostly favour the Palestinian narrative, but also likely because of our individual media bubbles. I'm sure if I read Jerusalem Post it'll tell me what brave police were bashing people carrying a coffin. Most of the mainstream international media (who are pro-Israel) seem to have left, got sick of the same story over and over. One side never mentions the terrorism, the other side never mentions the ethnic cleansing.

And I call it ethnic cleansing because that's exactly what these settlers are actively doing. They want all non-Jews out of East Jerusalem and the West Bank (and after that it will be Gaza). They say it over and over and the Israeli Govt actively supports them. If the Israeli state stopped supporting the settlers and withdrew them from Palestinian areas, a lot of the trouble would be reduced.

Obviously the hardest stage is for the Palestinian economy to get up and running so that young people from Palestine have hope for the future and can channel their energy towards hope rather than hatred from the oppression of the occupation. That will take lifting of parts of the occupation, which in turn needs to have the settler issue sorted so that blow-back is reduced.

I didn't say terrorism would be reduced if Israel had less land. I state that it would be reduced if Israel stopped stealing more and more land with state sanctioned military support.

Israel offered peace in 1948. The response? War declared on it by all neighboring Arab nations.

Israel & Egypt eventually settled their differences and now have peace, with Israel returning land.

Infact every time Israel offered land for peace deals they were rejected violently. So your theory really does not reflect reality. If giving up land guaranteed peace Israel would do it in an instant. The reality is when that has happened in the past the opposite has happened.

 

[Saint]

Israel offered peace in 1948. The response? War declared on it by all neighboring Arab nations.

Israel & Egypt eventually settled their differences and now have peace, with Israel returning land.

Infact every time Israel offered land for peace deals they were rejected violently. So your theory really does not reflect reality. If giving up land guaranteed peace Israel would do it in an instant. The reality is when that has happened in the past the opposite has happened.

A bit like Putin saying if you just let us have the Donbas and Crimea, we will stop this war?

Offering peace for land?

How do you square the circle of Israel stealing more land because they want peace?

Ceasefires occur at the end of a gun, but not true peace. True peace won't be found until Israel doesn't want to cleanse the holy land of Arabs and the Arabs don't want to cleanse Jews from the holy land. Neither of those is true at the moment.

It's very easy to start the spiral of war. Terrorists stab a few Israelis to keep the war going. Settlers occupy more land and push Arabs further to the brink of desparation. It's much harder to stop it, and neither side is trying at all.

 

[Zidane98]

A bit like Putin saying if you just let us have the Donbas and Crimea, we will stop this war?

Offering peace for land?

How do you square the circle of Israel stealing more land because they want peace?

Ceasefires occur at the end of a gun, but not true peace. True peace won't be found until Israel doesn't want to cleanse the holy land of Arabs and the Arabs don't want to cleanse Jews from the holy land. Neither of those is true at the moment.

It's very easy to start the spiral of war. Terrorists stab a few Israelis to keep the war going. Settlers occupy more land and push Arabs further to the brink of desparation. It's much harder to stop it, and neither side is trying at all.

Comparing Russia & Ukraine to Palestine & Israel is ridiculous for obvious reasons. Ukraine doesn't have a policy of wanting Russia wiped off the map and not to exist any more. Ukraine doesn't promote martydom for suicide bombers to go and take out Russian citizens. And it wouldn't be like Putin saying anything at all it would be more like Zelensky saying we recognise Crimea in exchange for you never attacking Ukraine again.

True peace can only be achieved when both sides have their own clear state and a pledge to work together. Israel offered this twice (1948 & 2008) and the response was a violent reprisal due to one side at the time believing the other should not exist.

The cycle of violence is difficult to stop, you are correct about that. I believe removing Hamas is the first step, followed shortly by stopping all settlers. You can't achieve peace when one side's actual policy is eradication of Jews and complete destruction of the state of Israel. At least the Palestinian Authority in West Bank is prepared to come to the table to talk unlike Hamas.


It is worth noting that Israel achieved peace with Egypt by giving up land although equally you can say they achieved peace with Jordan without giving up land.

 

[Saint]

Comparing Russia & Ukraine to Palestine & Israel is ridiculous for obvious reasons. Ukraine doesn't have a policy of wanting Russia wiped off the map and not to exist any more. Ukraine doesn't promote martydom for suicide bombers to go and take out Russian citizens. And it wouldn't be like Putin saying anything at all it would be more like Zelensky saying we recognise Crimea in exchange for you never attacking Ukraine again.

True peace can only be achieved when both sides have their own clear state and a pledge to work together. Israel offered this twice (1948 & 2008) and the response was a violent reprisal due to one side at the time believing the other should not exist.

The cycle of violence is difficult to stop, you are correct about that. I believe removing Hamas is the first step, followed shortly by stopping all settlers. You can't achieve peace when one side's actual policy is eradication of Jews and complete destruction of the state of Israel. At least the Palestinian Authority in West Bank is prepared to come to the table to talk unlike Hamas.


It is worth noting that Israel achieved peace with Egypt by giving up land although equally you can say they achieved peace with Jordan without giving up land.

Why are Hamas worse than the settlers? Why would a pre-condition to Israel stopping illegal ethnic cleansing be that Palestinians act first on the promise that Israel will be better? When have Israel not gone ahead and stolen more land?

 

[Zidane98]

Why are Hamas worse than the settlers? Why would a pre-condition to Israel stopping illegal ethnic cleansing be that Palestinians act first on the promise that Israel will be better? When have Israel not gone ahead and stolen more land?

Is this a serious question? Which organisation is a declared terrorist organisation - Hamas or the Israeli government?


Israel have gone ahead on two occasions and offered peace in 2008 and 1948. What was the response by the other side on both occassions?

 

[Brunswick Trap King]

Sounds pretty terroristic to have your military sniping journalists.

Terrorist states gon terrorist

 

[Marcel Proust]

Israel unveils armed robotic vehicle for ‘forward reconnaissance missions’

M-RCV includes machine gun, anti-tank missile launcher, drone deployer, and array of sensors; testing to begin in 2023

www.timesofisrael.com

 

[Marcel Proust]

 

[fishardansin]

Absolutely disgusting. I am not one of those who think we shouldn't be sanctioning Russia as hard as we can because we're not doing the same with Israel, or the US while they were invading Afghanistan and Iraq. We should be sanctioning all of them.

Oh, and there was a great video made last week about Israel's sill weak argument about being indigenous.

 

[blackcat]

lebanon port. ~'18/19

you know how many folks died ahead of their time in Mesopotamia from BushBlairCampbellGordonBrownJWH wars of aggression? 50fold of the Israelies , so to criticize them we must start at home

don't conflate w an apologia

#noapologiaoftheIsraeliregime

View attachment 1532715

 

[blackcat]

Sounds pretty terroristic to have your military sniping journalists.

Terrorist states gon terrorist

like our Victoria Cross , it is not for my ambitions Israel commit war crimes , it is (not*) for my ambition JWH takes us lockstep with Bush and Blair

UK US Aust Israel are for the purposes of this conversation the same bloc

* asterisk for putative contradiction^

 

[fishardansin]

Comparing Russia & Ukraine to Palestine & Israel is ridiculous for obvious reasons. Ukraine doesn't have a policy of wanting Russia wiped off the map and not to exist any more. Ukraine doesn't promote martydom for suicide bombers to go and take out Russian citizens. And it wouldn't be like Putin saying anything at all it would be more like Zelensky saying we recognise Crimea in exchange for you never attacking Ukraine again.

True peace can only be achieved when both sides have their own clear state and a pledge to work together. Israel offered this twice (1948 & 2008) and the response was a violent reprisal due to one side at the time believing the other should not exist.

The cycle of violence is difficult to stop, you are correct about that. I believe removing Hamas is the first step, followed shortly by stopping all settlers. You can't achieve peace when one side's actual policy is eradication of Jews and complete destruction of the state of Israel. At least the Palestinian Authority in West Bank is prepared to come to the table to talk unlike Hamas.


It is worth noting that Israel achieved peace with Egypt by giving up land although equally you can say they achieved peace with Jordan without giving up land.

Sorry, that is just wrong.

Ukraine wants Russia wiped off their map. Same with some Palestinians.

However, the most popular solution now for Palestine is just one state solution, free from apartheid. This includes the right of return for Palestineans and also returning all property that has been stolen since 1948 to the previous owner.

The modern state of Israel is an invading force. They are an example of the worst type of settler-colonials.

 

[bourbons]

Ukraine wants Russia wiped off their map. Same with some Palestinians.

Probably why he said "the map" not "their map".

 

[Zidane98]

Sorry, that is just wrong.

Ukraine wants Russia wiped off their map. Same with some Palestinians.

However, the most popular solution now for Palestine is just one state solution, free from apartheid. This includes the right of return for Palestineans and also returning all property that has been stolen since 1948 to the previous owner.

The modern state of Israel is an invading force. They are an example of the worst type of settler-colonials.

This is absolutely not true. Ukraine is an independent state, has been for a long time. Ukraine wants nothing to do with Russia but Putin desperately wants Ukraine for Russian empire expansion. This is absolutely clear that Russia is invading a sovereign state.


The above is a completely different example to Israel / Palestine.


Prior to 1948 there was British Mandatory Palestine. Prior to this was the Ottoman Empire ruled the area.


There has been no Palestine state declared until 1988. Both groups of inhabitants have claims to live in the area. The UN proposed a two state partition in 1948 which was rejected by Arab League leaders (unfortunately) in favor of declaring war on the new Jewish state later known as Israel. Jewish leaders accepted UN resolution 181 and the state of Israel was born.


Obviously Abbas in 2011 stated that UN Resolution 181 should have been adopted back in 1948. In my view any land beyond this inhabited by Israel is an occupation as this was the territory agreed by a majority of the UN in 1948 that would constitute the state of Israel.

 

[Schneebly11]

Ukraine doesn't have a policy of wanting Russia wiped off the map and not to exist any more.

Palestinian comments about “wiped off the map” were specifically referring to the government of Israel, not the Israeli people. It was the Israelis who spun that comment as meaning “Holocaust round 2”, when it was nothing of the sort.

True peace can only be achieved when both sides have their own clear state and a pledge to work together. Israel offered this twice (1948 & 2008) and the response was a violent reprisal due to one side at the time believing the other should not exist.

The 2008 “offer” - Israel permanently keeps West Bank settlements with stationed Israeli troops, Palestinians not allowed to have a military and no right of return for displaced refugees. Sounds like the deal Putin would’ve insisted on as a “peace agreement”.

It was dead on arrival anyway as then Israeli leader Olmert, relatively liberal, was about to be replaced by far right Netanyahu who would’ve torn up that agreement on day one.

The cycle of violence is difficult to stop, you are correct about that. I believe removing Hamas is the first step, followed shortly by stopping all settlers.

So Israelis don’t have to have an external political exchanged forced on them, and they get to keep current settlements?

You can't achieve peace when one side's actual policy is eradication of Jews and complete destruction of the state of Israel.

Right now Israel has actively eradicated a Palestinian state. Complete prevention of it.

It is worth noting that Israel achieved peace with Egypt by giving up land

In that same agreement it was promised Israel would remove itself from all occupied territories.

Also the Camp David accords required Israeli settlers to leave the Sinai, this made them furious so they better integrated themselves into Israeli politics so now any attempt to remove Israeli settlers from Palestine would be political suicide for any Israeli government.

 

[Zidane98]

Palestinian comments about “wiped off the map” were specifically referring to the government of Israel, not the Israeli people. It was the Israelis who spun that comment as meaning “Holocaust round 2”, when it was nothing of the sort.


The 2008 “offer” - Israel permanently keeps West Bank settlements with stationed Israeli troops, Palestinians not allowed to have a military and no right of return for displaced refugees. Sounds like the deal Putin would’ve insisted on as a “peace agreement”.

It was dead on arrival anyway as then Israeli leader Olmert, relatively liberal, was about to be replaced by far right Netanyahu who would’ve torn up that agreement on day one.



So Israelis don’t have to have an external political exchanged forced on them, and they get to keep current settlements?



Right now Israel has actively eradicated a Palestinian state. Complete prevention of it.



In that same agreement it was promised Israel would remove itself from all occupied territories.

Also the Camp David accords required Israeli settlers to leave the Sinai, this made them furious so they better integrated themselves into Israeli politics so now any attempt to remove Israeli settlers from Palestine would be political suicide for any Israeli government.

This is not true.

Sermon delivered by 'Atallah Abu Al-Subh, former Hamas minister of culture, which aired on Al-Aqsa TV, April 8, 2011, translation by MEMRI​

"Whoever is killed by a Jew receives the reward of two martyrs, because the very thing that the Jews did to the prophets was done to him.


"The Jews are the most despicable and contemptible nation to crawl upon the face of the Earth, because they have displayed hostility to Allah.


"Allah will kill the Jews in the hell of the world to come, just like they killed the believers in the hell of this world.


"The Jews kill anyone who believes in Allah. They do not want to see any peace whatsoever on Earth."

Statement from Hamas Ministry of Refugee Affairs on U.N. Relief and Works Agency plan to include Holocaust education in the curriculum taught Palestinian refugees, February 28, 2011​

“We cannot agree to a programme that is intended to poison the minds of our children…Holocaust studies in refugee camps is a contemptible plot and serves the Zionist entity with a goal of creating a reality and telling stories in order to justify acts of slaughter against the Palestinian people."

Hamas official Halil Al-Hayya, Al-Hayat newspaper, November 11, 2010​

"The lie of the Zionist Holocaust crumbles with countless holocausts committed by the Zionists in Beit Hanoun, al-Fakhoura school and other places in Palestine."


"Palestine is Islamic, and not an Islamic emirate, from the river to the sea, that unites the Palestinians. Jews have no right in it, with the exception of those who lived on the land of Palestine before World War I."

Hamas leader Mahmoud Al-Zahhar, Future News TV, June 15, 2010, Source: MEMRI.org​

"We have liberated Gaza, but have we recognized Israel? Have we given up our lands occupied in 1948? We demand the liberation of the West Bank, and the establishment of a state in the West Bank and Gaza, with Jerusalem as its capital – but without recognizing [Israel]. This is the key – without recognizing the Israeli enemy on a single inch of land...


So in essence Hamas leadership are Holocause deniers and reward anyone who kills Jews with martydom.


There's a reason that Hamas are a declared international terrorist organisation. Sorry but Hamas are the main barrier to peace at the moment. Palestinian Authority can be negotiated with and are able to listen to reason. Hamas are strongly anti semitic and absolutely will never accept Israel as a state despite both sides having equal rights to having statehood (as was decided by UN Resolution 181).


The worst part about Hamas is their leadership live in luxury in Qatar on wealth stolen from their people who they can do as they please with. You would be shocked to know how many Gazans have been killed by failed rocket attacks on Israel from Hamas. As long as they can plunder the wealth of Gazans to fund regular attacks on Israelis they really don't care.

In terms of settlers Israel should not recognise them officially. If they want to live in Palestinian areas then they should go and live in the Palestinian state. That much is obvious.

 

[Zidane98]

Ideally UN resolution 181 from 1948 is adopted by both parties to resolve the issue but that's going to be difficult getting settlers out (the last time this happened was Gazan settlers in 2005).

Hamas obviously must cease to exist if UN resolution 181 is going to be abided by. Their public stance is destruction of Jewish people and to never accept a Jewish state.