Why boycotting Israel matters

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Zidane98 said:
This is not true.

Sermon delivered by 'Atallah Abu Al-Subh, former Hamas minister of culture, which aired on Al-Aqsa TV, April 8, 2011, translation by MEMRI​


"Whoever is killed by a Jew receives the reward of two martyrs, because the very thing that the Jews did to the prophets was done to him.


"The Jews are the most despicable and contemptible nation to crawl upon the face of the Earth, because they have displayed hostility to Allah.


"Allah will kill the Jews in the hell of the world to come, just like they killed the believers in the hell of this world.


"The Jews kill anyone who believes in Allah. They do not want to see any peace whatsoever on Earth."


Statement from Hamas Ministry of Refugee Affairs on U.N. Relief and Works Agency plan to include Holocaust education in the curriculum taught Palestinian refugees, February 28, 2011​


“We cannot agree to a programme that is intended to poison the minds of our children…Holocaust studies in refugee camps is a contemptible plot and serves the Zionist entity with a goal of creating a reality and telling stories in order to justify acts of slaughter against the Palestinian people."


Hamas official Halil Al-Hayya, Al-Hayat newspaper, November 11, 2010​


"The lie of the Zionist Holocaust crumbles with countless holocausts committed by the Zionists in Beit Hanoun, al-Fakhoura school and other places in Palestine."


"Palestine is Islamic, and not an Islamic emirate, from the river to the sea, that unites the Palestinians. Jews have no right in it, with the exception of those who lived on the land of Palestine before World War I."


Hamas leader Mahmoud Al-Zahhar, Future News TV, June 15, 2010, Source: MEMRI.org​


"We have liberated Gaza, but have we recognized Israel? Have we given up our lands occupied in 1948? We demand the liberation of the West Bank, and the establishment of a state in the West Bank and Gaza, with Jerusalem as its capital – but without recognizing [Israel]. This is the key – without recognizing the Israeli enemy on a single inch of land...


So in essence Hamas leadership are Holocause deniers and reward anyone who kills Jews with martydom.


There's a reason that Hamas are a declared international terrorist organisation. Sorry but Hamas are the main barrier to peace at the moment. Palestinian Authority can be negotiated with and are able to listen to reason. Hamas are strongly anti semitic and absolutely will never accept Israel as a state despite both sides having equal rights to having statehood (as was decided by UN Resolution 181).


The worst part about Hamas is their leadership live in luxury in Qatar on wealth stolen from their people who they can do as they please with. You would be shocked to know how many Gazans have been killed by failed rocket attacks on Israel from Hamas. As long as they can plunder the wealth of Gazans to fund regular attacks on Israelis they really don't care.

In terms of settlers Israel should not recognise them officially. If they want to live in Palestinian areas then they should go and live in the Palestinian state. That much is obvious.
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And Israel shouldn't send troops to protect them, which essentially extends the Israeli state.

I don't think anyone thinks Hamas aren't an awful bunch, you don't need quotes from 2011 to prove that. Indiscriminate rocket attacks is enough proof.

Both sides are guilty of state-sponsored terrorism. One side holds sham investigations into killings, the other doesn't bother.
 
Saint said:
And Israel shouldn't send troops to protect them, which essentially extends the Israeli state.

I don't think anyone thinks Hamas aren't an awful bunch, you don't need quotes from 2011 to prove that. Indiscriminate rocket attacks is enough proof.

Both sides are guilty of state-sponsored terrorism. One side holds sham investigations into killings, the other doesn't bother.
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Israeli troops have got no business being anywhere the Palestinian Authority hasn't agreed to let them be.



The difference with Hamas is they openly proclaim to want to destroy Jewish people and Israel as a state. There is no open policy of Israel wanting to destroy Palestine and its Arabic inhabitants. There is a significantly sized Arab Israeli population that lives in Israel.


Hamas also torture their own. Most of the population lives in fear of Hamas hence making it difficult to overthrow them in Gaza or for Fatah to resume governance of a unified Palestinian state.
 
Zidane98 said:
Israeli troops have got no business being anywhere the Palestinian Authority hasn't agreed to let them be.



The difference with Hamas is they openly proclaim to want to destroy Jewish people and Israel as a state. There is no open policy of Israel wanting to destroy Palestine and its Arabic inhabitants. There is a significantly sized Arab Israeli population that lives in Israel.


Hamas also torture their own. Most of the population lives in fear of Hamas hence making it difficult to overthrow them in Gaza or for Fatah to resume governance of a unified Palestinian state.
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This situation is almost inevitable given decades of oppression and ethnic cleansing. What option did the Palestinians have? Quietly acquiesce to slow and steady Israeli takeover?

Why did Israeli Settlers leave Gaza? At some point, if the laws are written for the oppressor, then it requires violence to fight back. This is what Ukrainians and Iranians are currently learning. Iranian protests are all over the country, but will it achieve anything other than more systematic protester murders, or will they resort to violence.

Sometimes violence is a justifiable last resort. It should obviously be targetted at the oppressors, which is the hard part to define/determine when you've been oppressed and victimised for 50 years.
 

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Saint said:
This situation is almost inevitable given decades of oppression and ethnic cleansing. What option did the Palestinians have? Quietly acquiesce to slow and steady Israeli takeover?

Why did Israeli Settlers leave Gaza? At some point, if the laws are written for the oppressor, then it requires violence to fight back. This is what Ukrainians and Iranians are currently learning. Iranian protests are all over the country, but will it achieve anything other than more systematic protester murders, or will they resort to violence.

Sometimes violence is a justifiable last resort. It should obviously be targetted at the oppressors, which is the hard part to define/determine when you've been oppressed and victimised for 50 years.
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Violence was a first resort in 1948 against Israel which is unfortunate after a fair & equitable resolution to two states was found.

Settlers were forcibly evicted from Gaza. No reason why it cant be done again if Hamas is disbanded and a peace proposal accepted by both sides.
 
Zidane98 said:
Israeli troops have got no business being anywhere the Palestinian Authority hasn't agreed to let them be.



The difference with Hamas is they openly proclaim to want to destroy Jewish people and Israel as a state. There is no open policy of Israel wanting to destroy Palestine and its Arabic inhabitants. There is a significantly sized Arab Israeli population that lives in Israel.


Hamas also torture their own. Most of the population lives in fear of Hamas hence making it difficult to overthrow them in Gaza or for Fatah to resume governance of a unified Palestinian state.
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What an odd reaction to a state which kills your people and steals your land. You'd think Hamas would show more gratitude.
 
bourbons said:
Probably why he said "the map" not "their map".
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ie they don't want a colonising and invading force on their land. Not the world map, just would like them to stay off their land and return the homes that were stolen and stop keeping Palestinians out of their homeland.

Just like the Ukrainians who have fled the annexed regions. They would like to return home.
 
Schneebly11 said:
Palestinian comments about “wiped off the map” were specifically referring to the government of Israel, not the Israeli people. It was the Israelis who spun that comment as meaning “Holocaust round 2”, when it was nothing of the sort.


The 2008 “offer” - Israel permanently keeps West Bank settlements with stationed Israeli troops, Palestinians not allowed to have a military and no right of return for displaced refugees. Sounds like the deal Putin would’ve insisted on as a “peace agreement”.

It was dead on arrival anyway as then Israeli leader Olmert, relatively liberal, was about to be replaced by far right Netanyahu who would’ve torn up that agreement on day one.



So Israelis don’t have to have an external political exchanged forced on them, and they get to keep current settlements?



Right now Israel has actively eradicated a Palestinian state. Complete prevention of it.



In that same agreement it was promised Israel would remove itself from all occupied territories.

Also the Camp David accords required Israeli settlers to leave the Sinai, this made them furious so they better integrated themselves into Israeli politics so now any attempt to remove Israeli settlers from Palestine would be political suicide for any Israeli government.
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only need to add the big brother USA they do nothing without DC's approbation , so discrete lens on the ills of TelAviv is fundamentally flawed
 
fishardansin said:
ie they don't want a colonising and invading force on their land. Not the world map, just would like them to stay off their land and return the homes that were stolen and stop keeping Palestinians out of their homeland.

Just like the Ukrainians who have fled the annexed regions. They would like to return home.
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Ukraine don't want Russia "wiped off the map", though.
 
fishardansin said:
Absolutely disgusting. I am not one of those who think we shouldn't be sanctioning Russia as hard as we can because we're not doing the same with Israel, or the US while they were invading Afghanistan and Iraq. We should be sanctioning all of them.

Oh, and there was a great video made last week about Israel's sill weak argument about being indigenous.

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Fantastic video. The comparison to Liberia is really good.
 
blackcat said:
only need to add the big brother USA they do nothing without DC's approbation , so discrete lens on the ills of TelAviv is fundamentally flawed
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Have a look at this American Israel Public Affairs Committee press release from March 2022. I'll copy the release in full and highlight the important bits;


AIPAC Letter on March 18, 2022​


Press Release

It was a stirring moment – and a rare one. Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy, in his capital city of Kyiv, spoke movingly about the threats he and his citizens face. A half-world away, gathered in an auditorium in Washington, Democrats and Republicans, progressives and conservatives, for a brief moment set aside their differences and applauded this leader.

We must not forget how rare such moments are. People in Washington thrive on conflict and division, drawing lines and building walls. And yet, for decades, we have built the pro-Israel movement and our political organizing arm in Washington on the premise that everyone can and should be a friend of Israel, because a strong U.S.-Israel relationship benefits both countries. We make no apologies for this position. There are many important issues on which Americans disagree – but Israel should not be one of them.

And so, our coalition has been a remarkably diverse one. We have friends from every state and every region. We have friends in Congress who have few, if any, Jewish constituents in their districts. We have friends in Congress who are skeptical of foreign aid for any nation – except for Israel. We have friends who are pro-choice and pro-life, those who are liberal on immigration and those who want to tighten our borders, and yes, those who disagree strongly on issues surrounding the 2020 presidential election.

These disagreements are not minor. They are, in many respects, critical to the future of America. But they do not determine the fate of America’s enduring commitment to the State of Israel.

We know this because in every Congress, under every administration – regardless of who controls the White House and who chairs key committees – the U.S.-Israel relationship has staunch defenders on both sides of the political aisle. Just last week, the Senate, which is divided 50-50 by party and on virtually every major issue, approved a $4.8 billion security package for Israel – the largest funding package in Israel’s history.

This is no moment for the pro-Israel movement to become selective about its friends. Israel faces nuclear threats from Iran’s rulers and terror tunnels built by Hezbollah and Hamas. An international movement seeking to isolate and demonize the Jewish state continues to make inroads, especially here in the United States.

The one thing that guarantees Israel’s ability to defend itself is the enduring support of the United States. When we launched our political action committee last year, we decided that we would base decisions about political contributions on only one thing: whether a political candidate supports the U.S.-Israel relationship. Not on any other issue – just this one.

Why are we so single-minded? Because no one else is. There will always be major issues that divide Americans. Israel’s enemies don’t wait for America to sort out our politics. They didn’t wait in 1948, nor in 1973, nor to this day. Israel needs America in its corner, always.

Our job today, as it has always been, is to bring more people to Israel’s side and focus only on Israel’s strength and ability to defend itself, in times of war as well as in times of peace. We can never let the things that divide Americans politically determine whether the United States will support Israel. We must be willing to stand with those who stand with Israel.

Of course, all members of the pro-Israel community are free to set their own individual political priorities, and support candidates who meet their other political tests. That’s not only acceptable, it’s the nature of a healthy democracy.

But our organization and our PAC will not make those judgments or do that work. We will pool our energy, resources and support behind candidates on one single issue, regardless of any other priority. That’s why we exist, and that’s why we are successful.

What are the stakes? Ask President Zelenskyy. His nation faces a war of extinction – a war which will determine whether his nation exists in the coming months. And here he is, pleading to the United States for bipartisan support to deliver him and his people. We can only pray help will arrive in time.
Israel can’t afford to wait for such a moment of peril. Our job is to make America’s friendship with Israel so robust, so certain, so broadly based, and so dependable that even the deep divisions of American politics never imperil that relationship and the ability of the Jewish state to defend itself.

Betsy Berns Korn
AIPAC President

Howard Kohr
AIPAC Chief Executive Officer
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Reading AIPAC's reaction to the definite turn to the extreme right that U.S conservative politics has taken it looks like that as long as they support Israel AIPAC don't care what else they might believe in or who else might be hurt by those beliefs.

Here's some added thoughts via Haaretz;

(original paywalled URL) AIPAC's latest 'pro-Israel' political stunt endangers America | Opinion | Opinion

(cached article) archive.ph

Why is AIPAC, which condemned Trump's incitement of violence on Jan 6th and the assault on America's democratic values, endorsing 'pro-Israel' candidates who align with insurrectionists and white supremacists?

In early March, the newly-created American Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC) political action committee (PAC) announced political endorsements, the first time it had explicitly backed candidates in its 70-year history.

Astonishingly, these endorsements include 37 Republicans who refused to certify the 2020 presidential election and, among them, two members of Congress who refused to testify before the January 6th Committee about their role in the Capitol insurrection.

AIPAC PAC’s endorsements are profoundly troubling because they suggest that, at times, one must compromise support of America’s democracy to support Israel. This is a patently false dichotomy rejected by the overwhelming majority of American Jews.

According to a poll conducted last year by the non-partisan Jewish Electorate Institute voting rights constitute one of the most important issues for American Jewish voters. When asked about the impact of state voter suppression laws inspired by Donald Trump’s Big Lie, 83 percent of Jewish voters, including 50 percent of Jewish Republicans, said they were concerned.

But with its endorsements of 37 Republicans who refused to certify the 2020 election, AIPAC PAC has given a stamp of approval to those willing to throw out the results of a free and fair election...
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Democracy matters less. Got it. Endorse those who may well throw Jews under a bus as soon as its politically expedient. I guess everyone gets what they want. Yay!!

Onya AIPAC:thumbsu:
 

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Geelong_Sicko said:
Have a look at this American Israel Public Affairs Committee press release from March 2022. I'll copy the release in full and highlight the important bits;



Reading AIPAC's reaction to the definite turn to the extreme right that U.S conservative politics has taken it looks like that as long as they support Israel AIPAC don't care what else they might believe in or who else might be hurt by those beliefs.

Here's some added thoughts via Haaretz;



Democracy matters less. Got it. Endorse those who may well throw Jews under a bus as soon as its politically expedient. I guess everyone gets what they want. Yay!!

Onya AIPAC:thumbsu:
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See: 2019 release from B'tselem the report of which said fundamentally 60years of apartheid and the American commentator NormanFinkelstein thought the young'ish ±45 chief of B'tselem(physics phd at HebrewUniofjerusalem who authored the report was dicing with his own life and figured he 'may' get knocked off like Shimon Peres , in shooting incident like the BrooklynDr BenjaminGoldstein in Kach/ Kayhan'ist, who knocked off a dozen+ (sh¡t it was twenty-nine) religious folk at AlAqsa mosque in Jerusalem for

- just like JWH took us, Australia , w BlairBrownCampbell+Bush into Mesopotamia(/Afghanistan too) which resulted in excess death over a million , so pro-rata 1/20th ours, no?

Stalin's tragedy-statistic aphorism

America and Westminster in the process of deciding our 'next' enemy:

Russia , China , whitesupremacists , or homegrown middle-class folk $$$$$$

Will have trouble making India our golum , or Brazil , but done their best to undermine Venezuela because their energy stores exceed that of the Sauds albeit it is not as efficient(technical process) to extract
 
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this is ‘chosen people’ stuff. this insufferable arrogance and callousness will ensure there’s never peace in the region. corruption pervades political life in israel.

 
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