Why boycotting Israel matters

[Ned_Flanders]

What preferential rights? judaism being the offical religion doesn't give Jews preferential rights. Does Christianity being official religion in Switzerland give Swiss Christians preferential rights over Hindus? it doesn't. As long as the constitution guarantees equal treatment and rights for all, i don't see a problem with it? you are putting too much stress of Judaism being the state religion, i don't see that as a major problem at all. As i said Israeli Arabs are comfortable with it, 74 percent say they will agree to that.

Howelse can you guarantee the safety of the Jews then? considering every single neighbouring country is hostile towards them? and if Arab population exceeds 50 percent in Israel you reckon Jews will be safe in their own country? dude they hate the Jews period. Jews been driven out of Muslim countries for the past 100 years, this wont magically stop if Israel turns secular.

Eric Silver writes in the February, 1990 issue of Political Quarterly:


Israel’s Proclamation of Independence makes few concessions to the Almighty. The word ‘God’ does not appear, though there is a passing reference to trusting in the ‘Rock of Israel’. Israel, it decrees, will be a Jewish state, but the concept is nowhere defined. The state, it says, ‘will be based on the principles of liberty, justice and peace as conceived by the Prophets of Israel; will uphold the full social and political equality of all its citizens, without distinction of religion, race, or sex; will guarantee freedom of religion, conscience, education and culture; will safeguard the Holy Places of all religions; and will loyally uphold the principles of the United Nations Charter’.

Every student of modern Israel should reread the proclamation of May 14, 1948, at least once a year. It is a reminder of the secular vision of the founding fathers. Israel was to be a modern democratic state, an expression of Jewish nationalism rather than Jewish faith. The text reads as if the drafting committee was more familiar with the American and French revolutions than with the intricacies of Talmud. The phrase ‘as conceived by the Prophets of Israel’ is little more than rhetoric. Which of the Prophets were they talking about? Immediately after a clause proclaiming the ‘establishment of the Jewish State in Palestine’, the document promises that a constitution will be drawn up by a constituent assembly ‘not later than 1 October, 1948’. Forty-one years later, the people of Israel are still waiting, not least because of a reluctance by successive governments to define (and thus calcify) the Jewishness of the Jewish state.

Hence Israel is never a Jewish state, it doesn't matter what you think its NOT a Jewish state. Jewish home doesn't equal to Jewish state.

lord curzon and others involved in the League of Nations negotiations on the Palestine Mandate repeatedly say in their letters that they understand that a “Jewish National Home” did not imply a Jewish state nor did it imply that the rights of the indigenous Palestinians would be injured. The French and the Italians were extremely uncomfortable with the British position. To cite the British imperial mandate in favor of Mr. Netanyahu’s current push is to do violence to history.

The Arab League offered to recognize Israel within 1967 borders in 2002 and has since renewed the offer.

Okay, if they have equal rights can you explain who has the greater legal right to live in israel today?

1) a jew from russia whos family have live there for hundreds of years

2) a palestinian living in a jordanian refugee camp whos parents and grandparents were booted out when israel was created

The fact 2) gets told FOAD (literally) while a red carpet is laid out for 1) shows its not equal. Israel treats jews as its prime citizens, and tolerates the existance of arab israelis

Thats not equality, and its a standard that will perpetuate this shitfight

 

[Total Power]

Okay, if they have equal rights can you explain who has the greater legal right to live in israel today?

1) a jew from russia whos family have live there for hundreds of years

2) a palestinian living in a jordanian refugee camp whos parents and grandparents were booted out when israel was created

The fact 2) gets told FOAD (literally) while a red carpet is laid out for 1) shows its not equal. Israel treats jews as its prime citizens, and tolerates the existance of arab israelis

Thats not equality, and its a standard that will perpetuate this shitfight

Are you deliberately trying to bait me? The law of return to the Jewish homeland is clear, if you have one parent who is Jewish, you have the right to an Israeli citizenship. That's why it's the Jewish homeland (different from a Jewish state).

As far as your second question goes:

Citizenship by residence was intended for non-Jewish denizens of the British Mandate of Palestine, such as Arabs, Druze and Bedouin, who were considered to be associated with Palestine during the period immediately prior to the 1948 Arab-Israeli War. Such denizens who were still within the territorial confines of Israel after the war were granted full Israeli citizenship. In order to determine who was eligible for citizenship under this provision, the state of Israel conducted a population registration in 1952 and again in the 1980s. Those found to meet the requirements obtained Israeli citizenship.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_nationality_law

Ofcourse i do concede that this does not apply at present and this is wrong, mostly cause there is a press by Netanyahu (and previous PM's) to make Israel a Jewish state.

This is wrong and i accept that.

Here is a counter question for you:

why doesnt other Arab states recognise their Palestinian brothers, considering their bleeding hearts are crying for them all the time? why can't a palestinian get Saudi citizenship through naturalisation?

 

[Ned_Flanders]

Are you deliberately trying to bait me? The law of return to the Jewish homeland is clear, if you have one parent who is Jewish, you have the right to an Israeli citizenship. That's why it's the Jewish homeland (different from a Jewish state).

As far as your second question goes:

Citizenship by residence was intended for non-Jewish denizens of the British Mandate of Palestine, such as Arabs, Druze and Bedouin, who were considered to be associated with Palestine during the period immediately prior to the 1948 Arab-Israeli War. Such denizens who were still within the territorial confines of Israel after the war were granted full Israeli citizenship. In order to determine who was eligible for citizenship under this provision, the state of Israel conducted a population registration in 1952 and again in the 1980s. Those found to meet the requirements obtained Israeli citizenship.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_nationality_law

Ofcourse i do concede that this does not apply at present and this is wrong, mostly cause there is a press by Netanyahu (and previous PM's) to make Israel a Jewish state.

This is wrong and i accept that.

Here is a counter question for you:

why doesnt other Arab states recognise their Palestinian brothers, considering their bleeding hearts are crying for them all the time? why can't a palestinian get Saudi citizenship through naturalisation?

it will validate and endorse israeli discrimination and land theft if they do it, so i get why they dont

as for the first, im not trying to bait you but stop your lie that arabs are equal in israel, they are not. the fact jews can become citizens by blinking while muslims who grew up in the land for generations are exiled underlines this. sure you can sit at the front of the bus, but what does that mean when settlers can take your land one day?

 

[Total Power]

it will validate and endorse israeli discrimination and land theft if they do it, so i get why they dont

as for the first, im not trying to bait you but stop your lie that arabs are equal in israel, they are not. the fact jews can become citizens by blinking while muslims who grew up in the land for generations are exiled underlines this. sure you can sit at the front of the bus, but what does that mean when settlers can take your land one day?

I have answered yours, can you answer my question?

 

[Ned_Flanders]

I have answered yours, can you answer my question?

which one?

 

[Total Power]

why doesnt other Arab states recognise their Palestinian brothers, considering their bleeding hearts are crying for them all the time? why can't a palestinian get Saudi citizenship through naturalisation?

which one?

This one

 

[Ned_Flanders]

This one

um, i already did....

it will validate and endorse israeli discrimination and land theft if they do it, so i get why they dont

 

[Total Power]

um, i already did....

That's the sole reason why? to teach Israel a lesson????

 

[Ned_Flanders]

That's the sole reason why? to teach Israel a lesson????

no, to avoid a precedent

if they accept the first batch of exiled palestinians, that will give the green light for mass evictions knowing they will find a home elsewhere

im no fan of the arab governments, they lack transparency and strength of democratic institutions, but their job is not to assist and support the end of muslim life in israel.

 

[Total Power]

no, to avoid a precedent

if they accept the first batch of exiled palestinians, that will give the green light for mass evictions knowing they will find a home elsewhere

im no fan of the arab governments, they lack transparency and strength of democratic institutions, but their job is not to assist and support the end of muslim life in israel.

But many countries did accept them, now they are kicking them out, slowly. Same s**t as No arab states accepting syrians or Iraqis or even Afghans. Discrimination is rife is Arab world, they discriminate amongst themselves, on top of that there is not a single jew left in any of these countries. You can argue you want to make a secular Israel, Middle eastern Arabs are not really a big fan of secularism.

The fact that human rights violations are happening in Arab states with palestinians, shows that no one actually gives a * about them, this is the reality

 

[Ned_Flanders]

But many countries did accept them, now they are kicking them out, slowly. Same s**t as No arab states accepting syrians or Iraqis or even Afghans. Discrimination is rife is Arab world, they discriminate amongst themselves, on top of that there is not a single jew left in any of these countries. You can argue you want to make a secular Israel, Middle eastern Arabs are not really a big fan of secularism.

The fact that human rights violations are happening in Arab states with palestinians, shows that no one actually gives a **** about them, this is the reality

bullshit

we had people pages ago bagging the s**t out of the muslim nations and their pathetic treatment of the kurds. bagged out a former nobel peace prize winning golden child who is turning a blind eye to the buddhist extermination of muslims in myanmar

saying everyone ignores injustice except those done by israel is a crock

myself, Ive said I want all govts out of the business of promoting and endorsing faith. it only ends in blood, because no matter what way you cut it, you * over one group of people for another, just because they believe in different s**t to you

and for the record, im a "pox on both your houses" guy when it comes to this issue. im sick of it, and sick of muslims and jews dragging the rest of the world into this shitfight again and again. a mate once said the best way to solve the mid east issues is build a three meter wall around the entire middle east, and fill it with water. he was a psycho, but sometimes I wonder if hes right. jews wont stop until the rock is destroyed and the temple returned (which will be over the body of every muslim around), and muslims wont stop until they are back in Jerusalem (and israel will nuke jerusalem before that happens)

 

[Total Power]

bullshit

we had people pages ago bagging the s**t out of the muslim nations and their pathetic treatment of the kurds. bagged out a former nobel peace prize winning golden child who is turning a blind eye to the buddhist extermination of muslims in myanmar

saying everyone ignores injustice except those done by israel is a crock

myself, Ive said I want all govts out of the business of promoting and endorsing faith. it only ends in blood, because no matter what way you cut it, you **** over one group of people for another, just because they believe in different s**t to you

and for the record, im a "pox on both your houses" guy when it comes to this issue. im sick of it, and sick of muslims and jews dragging the rest of the world into this shitfight again and again. a mate once said the best way to solve the mid east issues is build a three meter wall around the entire middle east, and fill it with water. he was a psycho, but sometimes I wonder if hes right. jews wont stop until the rock is destroyed and the temple returned (which will be over the body of every muslim around), and muslims wont stop until they are back in Jerusalem (and israel will nuke jerusalem before that happens)

And your solution is just "cut the religion out". Well i want that solution too, but that is disconnected from the ******* reality. It's just like communism, in an ideal world you are right, but Israel will just give up on the continuation of the Judea and Arabs will stop reading the Koran. Will. not. happen.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

And your solution is just "cut the religion out". Well i want that solution too, but that is disconnected from the ******* reality. It's just like communism, in an ideal world you are right, but Israel will just give up on the continuation of the Judea and Arabs will stop reading the Koran. Will. not. happen.

what is it with you and extremism?

its either israel is a jewish nation or it has sharia law. now its either israel is a jewish nation or its communist.

I said I want religion out of GOVERNMENT. Australia doesnt have a church. until howard had no involvement in promoting anyone faith, and we aint alone. most countries of the world dont say "we are a XXXX country, and we will only tolerate anyone who doesnt share our faith"

keep religion in the churches, the temples, the mosques, and the homes. keep it out of government, because governments need to govern for all, not just one faith

 

[Total Power]

what is it with you and extremism?

its either israel is a jewish nation or it has sharia law. now its either israel is a jewish nation or its communist.

I said I want religion out of GOVERNMENT. Australia doesnt have a church. until howard had no involvement in promoting anyone faith, and we aint alone. most countries of the world dont say "we are a XXXX country, and we will only tolerate anyone who doesnt share our faith"

keep religion in the churches, the temples, the mosques, and the homes. keep it out of government, because governments need to govern for all, not just one faith

And i repeat Israel is a different kettle of fish cause of history. The declaration if independence clearly states the "prophets of Israel" , so now i am an extremist for telling the truth?
OK Ill go with make 75% of the world secular before you ask Israel. Or why not just ask Israel disarm first. Of course you want Israel to do it first be a light unto the nations, just before the other countries ..

The reason you want Israel to do it first is BECAUSE you know that the other countries wont. You know it and I know it. I am suggesting all religion in government is wrong the problem being that you want Israel to change first. I would suggest Jews have been the victims so long, now that they have a country that can protect them, they will not give it up on the whim of go on trust us.

Yes, of course I want the world to have secular government. Do you? Religious leaders and religious laws are a disaster for any country.

The issue is that Israel is called on not to be a Jewish State but a secular one. Whereas all other countries are allowed to get on with their religious bent persecuting minorities and ethnic cleansing etc. Every single Islamic country, even Indonesia now.

But you wouldn't call them out first, would you? Why? Because you know that it would be a waste of time, that the trend in these places is towards religious fundamentalism rather than pluralism?

Most Israelis are not right wing fundamentalists or religious at all but they may well want to live in a country that does not persecute them.

When the Jews feel safe to live in a world where a Jewish State of Israel is not required is the day we should all look forward to.

A fully secular Israel will come about when the surrounding countries become secular. I hope that is soon.

Having said all that, Israel should end discrimination against Palestinian refugees as well.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

And i repeat Israel is a different kettle of fish cause of history. The declaration if independence clearly states the "prophets of Israel" , so now i am an extremist for telling the truth?
OK Ill go with make 75% of the world secular before you ask Israel. Or why not just ask Israel disarm first. Of course you want Israel to do it first be a light unto the nations, just before the other countries ..

The reason you want Israel to do it first is BECAUSE you know that the other countries wont. You know it and I know it. I am suggesting all religion in government is wrong the problem being that you want Israel to change first. I would suggest Jews have been the victims so long, now that they have a country that can protect them, they will not give it up on the whim of go on trust us.

Yes, of course I want the world to have secular government. Do you? Religious leaders and religious laws are a disaster for any country.

The issue is that Israel is called on not to be a Jewish State but a secular one. Whereas all other countries are allowed to get on with their religious bent persecuting minorities and ethnic cleansing etc. Every single Islamic country, even Indonesia now.

But you wouldn't call them out first, would you? Why? Because you know that it would be a waste of time, that the trend in these places is towards religious fundamentalism rather than pluralism?

Most Israelis are not right wing fundamentalists or religious at all but they may well want to live in a country that does not persecute them.

When the Jews feel safe to live in a world where a Jewish State of Israel is not required is the day we should all look forward to.

A fully secular Israel will come about when the surrounding countries become secular. I hope that is soon.

Having said all that, Israel should end discrimination against Palestinian refugees as well.

I dont want israel to go first, i want them to all go. i want usa to stop supporting saudi govts who promote their religion around the region. i want myanmar back on international sanctions. i want govts to impose sanctions on india and pakistan and bangladesh if they dont stop the bloodbaths in their countries. this is the boycott israel thread though, so the discussion is primarily about them.

you also drop a tell again. "israel is different". no, its not and it cant be. every culture and faith gets to claim their own persecution story and tales of woe. that doesnt give you a get out of jail free card to do whatever the * you want. you keep saying israel is secular, but then defend its right to give preferential treatment to jews because "its different".

as long as you put one people over another, blood will be spilt. the only way israel wins with the current gameplan is genocide, and i honestly dont think its their intent. I do think this is where its heading however. you cannot claim superior rights in a region where you are the minority without buying them off or killing them off. I hope im wrong

 

[Total Power]

you also drop a tell again. "israel is different". no, its not and it cant be. every culture and faith gets to claim their own persecution story and tales of woe. that doesnt give you a get out of jail free card to do whatever the **** you want. you keep saying israel is secular, but then defend its right to give preferential treatment to jews because "its different".

So call them out. Where is the world when i spoke about genocide and ethnic cleansing of Hindus in Bangladesh? Where are the bleeding hearts when Shiites are bombed in Iraq, or Hindus and Christians are persecuted in Pakistan? But Israel is a massive problem. Look we are go deeper but Israel is still far better than most of these so called "Republics".

Israel is a largely secular country with a Jewish character. If you care about democracy with all its faults, then Israel is a true democracy with one man one vote and with the added burden of the proportional representation system which gives each tiny party a say in the country's character and future.

Israel was created as a homeland for Jews for a reason: that a homeland for Jews is necessary, considering the events of the past two thousand years, and this apart from the fact that everyone is entitled to have a home where he does not live on sufferance.

For this reason there must be mechanisms in place for the country to maintain its predominantly Jewish character, which I define in terms of the style of the country, the language, the flag, the anthem the basic structure of the year, in which Saturday, the Sabbath, is the day of rest and the Jewish holidays are the central focus of the holiday period in the country.

I mean, let's assume for the sake of the argument that Israel agree to everything - Palestinian state, borders of 67, dividing of Jerusalem. And Arabs should still refuse to recognise it because of the definition as Jewish state? Come on, this will only show clearly that they don't really want peace - exactly what Israeli right tries to prove.

And the fact that Palestinians and Arabs can't accept a Jewish state in their midst means exactly that - they can't accept a JEWISH state in their midst. Bibi is calling them out and it shows exactly what the root of the problem is: the Arabs are still stuck in 1948. The reasons are simple if you understand the political nature of Islam that drives this ambition to never recognize a jewish state: 1. It's Haram 2. They believe the whole of mandate Palestine is dar ul Islam and non-muslims are supposed to be dhimmis in dar ul Islam like they presently are in any other Islamic (dar ul Islam) country even if it is a democratic country like Pakistan. Only when Jews are allowed entry into Islamic nations or ordinary blokes like you and I can go visit Mecca you can come talk about secularism there. But i get it.... Its Israel who has to compromise first. If you care so much about secularism, then look at the Arab Union as a whole, they have more human rights violations than the rest of the world combined. Just ask the Arab world to allow citizens of Israel to go past immigration, why don't you? that will be a start, but no no, lets start with Israel. Put your arms down and if the Arabs don't destroy you, i will try to convince them. History hasn't taught you anything, the most persecuted people in the world are ******* Jews.

And then you wonder where loonies like P35 get their conspiracy s**t from? Israel has to give up their identity but the hostile neighbours won't. I am more than happy for Israel to have no religion, ask Arab's to sort themselves our first.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

So call them out. Where is the world when i spoke about genocide and ethnic cleansing of Hindus in Bangladesh? Where are the bleeding hearts when Shiites are bombed in Iraq, or Hindus and Christians are persecuted in Pakistan? But Israel is a massive problem. Look we are go deeper but Israel is still far better than most of these so called "Republics".

Israel is a largely secular country with a Jewish character. If you care about democracy with all its faults, then Israel is a true democracy with one man one vote and with the added burden of the proportional representation system which gives each tiny party a say in the country's character and future.

Israel was created as a homeland for Jews for a reason: that a homeland for Jews is necessary, considering the events of the past two thousand years, and this apart from the fact that everyone is entitled to have a home where he does not live on sufferance.

For this reason there must be mechanisms in place for the country to maintain its predominantly Jewish character, which I define in terms of the style of the country, the language, the flag, the anthem the basic structure of the year, in which Saturday, the Sabbath, is the day of rest and the Jewish holidays are the central focus of the holiday period in the country.

I mean, let's assume for the sake of the argument that Israel agree to everything - Palestinian state, borders of 67, dividing of Jerusalem. And Arabs should still refuse to recognise it because of the definition as Jewish state? Come on, this will only show clearly that they don't really want peace - exactly what Israeli right tries to prove.

And the fact that Palestinians and Arabs can't accept a Jewish state in their midst means exactly that - they can't accept a JEWISH state in their midst. Bibi is calling them out and it shows exactly what the root of the problem is: the Arabs are still stuck in 1948. The reasons are simple if you understand the political nature of Islam that drives this ambition to never recognize a jewish state: 1. It's Haram 2. They believe the whole of mandate Palestine is dar ul Islam and non-muslims are supposed to be dhimmis in dar ul Islam like they presently are in any other Islamic (dar ul Islam) country even if it is a democratic country like Pakistan. Only when Jews are allowed entry into Islamic nations or ordinary blokes like you and I can go visit Mecca you can come talk about secularism there. But i get it.... Its Israel who has to compromise first. If you care so much about secularism, then look at the Arab Union as a whole, they have more human rights violations than the rest of the world combined. Just ask the Arab world to allow citizens of Israel to go past immigration, why don't you? that will be a start, but no no, lets start with Israel. Put your arms down and if the Arabs don't destroy you, i will try to convince them. History hasn't taught you anything, the most persecuted people in the world are ******* Jews.

And then you wonder where loonies like P35 get their conspiracy s**t from? Israel has to give up their identity but the hostile neighbours won't. I am more than happy for Israel to have no religion, ask Arab's to sort themselves our first.

agree 100% on the last sentence. for the rest, who else gets a homeland? when you set the precedent for "these dudes deserve a homeland" you can get on the slippery slope. do the kurds, the basque, the tasmanians? whats the threshold for "no you dont"?

on why is it the jews only, it gets the attention because this is the only dispute that impacts the world in a massive way. Rwandans exterminate each other in obscene numbers, its "meh" because its "them" and "there". The mid east s**t has given us a world of global terrorism and countless wars however (most of which the west has eagerly engaged in because of the oil in the region). remember it cuts both ways though. Israel is a nuclear power with no sanctions against it. israel has done preemptive attacks that would normally cop a tonne of sanctions. it is hardly the lily white innocent in this (no one is) who is on their own with no mates

anyway, im trying to figure out how to set this friggin fitbit up, so i'll leave it there for today. have a good one dude

 

[Total Power]

agree 100% on the last sentence. for the rest, who else gets a homeland? when you set the precedent for "these dudes deserve a homeland" you can get on the slippery slope. do the kurds, the basque, the tasmanians? whats the threshold for "no you dont"?

on why is it the jews only, it gets the attention because this is the only dispute that impacts the world in a massive way. Rwandans exterminate each other in obscene numbers, its "meh" because its "them" and "there". The mid east s**t has given us a world of global terrorism and countless wars however (most of which the west has eagerly engaged in because of the oil in the region). remember it cuts both ways though. Israel is a nuclear power with no sanctions against it. israel has done preemptive attacks that would normally cop a tonne of sanctions. it is hardly the lily white innocent in this (no one is) who is on their own with no mates

anyway, im trying to figure out how to set this friggin fitbit up, so i'll leave it there for today. have a good one dude

Its 9 am here and i had a few already time to hit the sack for a crazy night ahead.Have a good one, its always good to have a debate without ad-homs and in good spirit, cheers.

 

[Total Power]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...layers-denied-visas-for-event-in-saudi-arabia

Here we go again, these countries won't even separate politics from sports. But all blame is on Israel. None of the Arab and Muslim countries will let Israeli players in, but Israel must end hostility first. I don't honestly blame Israel for being paranoid, as long as such discrimination continues. How are ordinary citizens responsible for the policy of the government? How about both sides compromise at the same time?

 

[Ned_Flanders]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...layers-denied-visas-for-event-in-saudi-arabia

Here we go again, these countries won't even separate politics from sports. But all blame is on Israel. None of the Arab and Muslim countries will let Israeli players in, but Israel must end hostility first. I don't honestly blame Israel for being paranoid, as long as such discrimination continues. How are ordinary citizens responsible for the policy of the government? How about both sides compromise at the same time?

both sides love this tactic

remember once the palestinian footballers had issues because israel played funny buggers with the requirements around leaving gaza

sadly sport has always been a political football (yeah, lame pun intended )

 

[Total Power]

both sides love this tactic

remember once the palestinian footballers had issues because israel played funny buggers with the requirements around leaving gaza

sadly sport has always been a political football (yeah, lame pun intended )

Well but if you are talking about the level of bigotry then think about this, Israeli citizens are not even allowed to enter a Muslim country but Arabs from any country are allowed entry into Israel if they have the right visa. This shows who is more bigoted. I just don't see a way forward sadly with Middle-East becoming increasingly hostile, this part of the world is truly ****ed like you said.

 

[Procrastinator35]

I dont want israel to go first, i want them to all go. i want usa to stop supporting saudi govts who promote their religion around the region. i want myanmar back on international sanctions. i want govts to impose sanctions on india and pakistan and bangladesh if they dont stop the bloodbaths in their countries. this is the boycott israel thread though, so the discussion is primarily about them.

you also drop a tell again. "israel is different". no, its not and it cant be. every culture and faith gets to claim their own persecution story and tales of woe. that doesnt give you a get out of jail free card to do whatever the **** you want. you keep saying israel is secular, but then defend its right to give preferential treatment to jews because "its different".

as long as you put one people over another, blood will be spilt. the only way israel wins with the current gameplan is genocide, and i honestly dont think its their intent. I do think this is where its heading however. you cannot claim superior rights in a region where you are the minority without buying them off or killing them off. I hope im wrong

The America government is invested in chaos, war & division....That's what both pays the bills & keeps it's military industrial complex machine running.....Most of the chaos & wars going on around the world today can be explained by this very simple foreign policy agenda.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

The America government is invested in chaos, war & division....That's what both pays the bills & keeps it's military industrial complex machine running.....Most of the chaos & wars going on around the world today can be explained by this very simple foreign policy agenda.

yeah, because we never had war before america existed

 

[Total Power]

yeah, because we never had war before america existed

Don't bother, here comes the jewish takeover of the world and greater israeli project

 

[Procrastinator35]

yeah, because we never had war before america existed

If you want to get into a discussion about human nature, then that's probably a subject best left for another thread.

It's no secret that the contemporary world is dominated by the U.S military, driven by it's global imperialistic ambitions.