Why do WA and SA only have one AFL stadium each?

[TheEscapeClub]

Can't believe nobody mentioned Kalgoorlie.

I'm not, too far away, not enough people.

 

[TheEscapeClub]

Reckon WA are a monty for a 3rd team shortly after Tasmania. Both freo and WC have big enough followings, are financially stable, population is accellarating, and a third team would average home crowds at a minimum of 30-35,000, which would smoke the likes of Melbourne, Stkilda, Bulldogs, North, Hawthorn, not to mention the rugby state teams.

It would be financially irresponsible not to have team 20 from there.

The locals have picked the teams they support.

 

[kranky al]

The majority of their populations are both centred in single large cities.

SA goes from 1.25m in Adelaide to the next best of <30,000.

WA goes from 2m in Perth to next best of Bunbury with 75,000, which is 2hrs south of Perth and Albany and Busselton with around 30k each and are even further away from Perth. The tyranny of distance.

This is why we are a long way off a third team.


We would need a townsville sized city to form another productive club.

 

[JackOutback]

The majority of their populations are both centred in single large cities.

SA goes from 1.25m in Adelaide to the next best of <30,000.

WA goes from 2m in Perth to next best of Bunbury with 75,000, which is 2hrs south of Perth and Albany and Busselton with around 30k each and are even further away from Perth. The tyranny of distance.

While it’s still not enough, Bunbury and Busselton are 45 minutes apart. And you can fly direct from Melbourne to Busselton. A South West team based in Bunbury would draw from both. But yes, WA needs to do better to decentralise and build up regional cities.

 

[kranky al]

While it’s still not enough, Bunbury and Busselton are 45 minutes apart. And you can fly direct from Melbourne to Busselton. A South West team based in Bunbury would draw from both. But yes, WA needs to do better to decentralise and build up regional cities.

Drives me a bit nuts. Wa governments idea of driving tourism pretty much starts at o’connor and ends at margaret river.

If you wanna drag tourists over this side of the line there has to be a substantive reason to do so, not a few hundred km of attractions.

Weve got some of the most spectacular things to see, rebuilding the railway kine up the coast to broome would be where id start. Of course as usual we will get f/a federal funding so we will have to do it ourselves.

Spending money in towns like Carnarvon that’s just been neglected so badly that its a shitpit now. A virtual ghost town as the fascines been closed for so many years the tourism has been killed off and with it most if the supporting businesses.

Its a disgrace whats happened to a town that had the potential to be an amazing oasis in the desert but poor management and successive state govts refusing to fund a basic service keeping the fascine open.


And then you have the completely untapped resource of attracting grey nomads en masse by converting used up mines into lakes and stocking with silver carp and freshwater crayfish.

You have inland towns slowly dying and the massive tourism boost you could get by stocking fish in artificial lakes - theres one that’s been done by locals in wiluna that’s sensational beautiful blue water, plant a bunch of poinsettias and other shade trees as well as mango trees, charge for freshwater fishing licenses and nominal park fees to pay for it all - in 20 years time you have a thriving industry.

Unfortunately there is zero vision for outside perth to margs.

 

[TheEscapeClub]

This is why we are a long way off a third team.


We would need a townsville sized city to form another productive club.

..and it would have to be south so that other smaller population centres could feed into it. As JackOutback posted, do you set it up in a Bunbury or prefer Busselton which currently has the direct flights, is closer to Margs etc and make the people of Bunbury travel the 45kms to get there. Continue with that wonderful train line down the middle of the highway.

I guess a lot can change between now and those population centres growing to a suitable size. I'm biased but I think Busselton is gorgeous, it reminds me a lot of a smaller, cleaner version of what Geelong was like in the 70s before the decentralisation of the cbd when shopping centres were built out in the suburbs.

 

[peetoo]

It does pose the question, if there was some sort of incident at Optus Stadium or Adelaide Oval, that rendered them unable to host AFL games, what is the contingency plan?

As any other venue is not up to scratch. Less than half the capacity as the biggest, and no where near the same level of corporate facilities.

Did you miss t’he pandemic?

Perth also has the WACA

 

[kranky al]

Did you miss t’he pandemic?

Perth also has the WACA

You mean that stadium the eagles used to play half their home games at and international test matches are played at?

Not AFL level </s>

 

[kranger]

You mean that stadium the eagles used to play half their home games at and international test matches are played at?

Not AFL level

Perth also has the WACA

After Subiaco Oval got its light towers and the Eagles moved their night games out of the WACA, the Ground had a redevelopment.

The WACA’s capacity was reduced from 35,000 to 25,000, and the field shortened so it was too short for Aussie Rules.

It is only now going through another redevelopment to make the field long enough again (hosting WAFL games last season), but the capacity is being even further reduced to 10,000 permanent with temporary capacity of 15,000 for events.

Whilst the WACA can allow the games to be played as a contingency, it doesn’t handle the crowd or corporate demands of Perth’s two AFL teams who average crowds of over 40,000.

 

[Billy ray]

After Subiaco Oval got its light towers and the Eagles moved their night games out of the WACA, the Ground had a redevelopment.

The WACA’s capacity was reduced from 35,000 to 25,000, and the field shortened so it was too short for Aussie Rules.

It is only now going through another redevelopment to make the field long enough again (hosting WAFL games last season), but the capacity is being even further reduced to 10,000 permanent with temporary capacity of 15,000 for events.

Whilst the WACA can allow the games to be played as a contingency, it doesn’t handle the crowd or corporate demands of Perth’s two AFL teams who average crowds of over 40,000.

Its gonna have a pool.
Much wow

 

[kreuze_missile]

Why would the government and AFL invest in building new stadiums in WA and SA that would get used 11 times a year? The existing stadiums are centrally located, serve the fanbases of both sides within each state well, nad are nowhere near capacity.

Melbourne has 9 teams (+ occasionally Geelong) sharing 2 stadiums which seems to work fine, so you could double/triple the number of AFL sides in SA & WA before capacity issues arose. There is no logical argument to create a new stadium in either state.

Gold Coast's location required it's own stadium as part of the club's establishment given it is nowhere near another suitable venue.

Giants Stadium is in the Sydney Showgrounds and hosts events other than the AFL. There were other options within NSW, but having 3,000 fans at Olympic Park would be ridiculous and likely unprofitable to operate. The AFL's desire to engage western Sydney would have been at odds with playing games at the SCG. The SCG is not easily accessible from the western suburbs - for those not aware, it would be easier to get from the Gold Coast to the Gabba than it would to get from Penrith to the SCG.

 

[JPetro83]

population... dont need more than 1

 

[peetoo]

Smaller stadiums good for AFLW and larger state league games….but there are plenty of those already

 

[greatwhiteshark]

And here is where the problem lies.

The AFL doesn't give a stuff about the SANFL or WAFL.

If they did, they would invest more money in country SA and country WA.

The AFL has no issues putting in cash to country Victoria. See the nab or tac cup or whatever league it's called now

Funny that the eagles and dockers are the ones that fund country WA footy with their revenue.

Nope the owners of the Eagles and Dockers fund WA footy. They are called the WAFC. The Eagles and Dockers if they had a choice wouldn't put a cent in.
Thank God both clubs are owned by the WAFC.

 

[GC2015]

It's the American model of sharing bigger stadiums with teams based in/around your city instead of having several smaller stadiums throughout the city. It makes it easier for the government to continue upgrading stadia because it's a two birds, one stone situation e.g. upgrade Adelaide Oval and you pass on benefits to both the Crows & Power.

I think it makes complete sense for the Crows and Power to share a stadium because both have always been based in the same city and seem to pull similar crowds but I think you could make an argument for Freo playing some games in a boutique stadium based in Fremantle. A lot of people seem to ignore the fact that Fremantle isn't actually in the city of Perth and although it's not quite as extreme as the difference between Melbourne/Geelong or Brisbane/Gold Coast, there is a distinct difference between the two cities. So perhaps in the future we'll see the Dockers playing a few lower drawing games in a boutique stadium based in Fremantle.

The situation in Sydney is a unique one in the sense that technically the Swans and Giants are based in the same city but there is a big cultural/socioeconomic difference between east and west. Plus, the Swans have a considerably larger fan base right now so it wouldn't make much sense for GWS to play home games in a 50,000 seat stadium in east Sydney. The NRL have made this mistake before by sending clubs with small fan bases to play home games at the 80k Olympic stadium and you would often see a near empty stadium on TV when that happened.

 

[p4p1]

I think it makes complete sense for the Crows and Power to share a stadium because both have always been based in the same city and seem to pull similar crowds but I think you could make an argument for Freo playing some games in a boutique stadium based in Fremantle. A lot of people seem to ignore the fact that Fremantle isn't actually in the city of Perth and although it's not quite as extreme as the difference between Melbourne/Geelong or Brisbane/Gold Coast, there is a distinct difference between the two cities. So perhaps in the future we'll see the Dockers playing a few lower drawing games in a boutique stadium based in Fremantle.

I think that ship has sailed mate. I don't see the government investing a significant amount of money into Freo oval nor can I see the Dockers that interested in locating back to the oval. I'm not sure what the setup is but I have to assume South Fremantle who have had the oval for 120+ years had a pretty big say in it not becoming anything more than it currently is or was for AFL games/the Dockers. Never say never but personally I don't see it happening. It's a shame because you could make a really outstanding boutique stadium that fits into the Fremantle 'aesthetic' as a port city and limestone as far as the eye can see.

 

[GC2015]

I think that ship has sailed mate. I don't see the government investing a significant amount of money into Freo oval nor can I see the Dockers that interested in locating back to the oval. I'm not sure what the setup is but I have to assume South Fremantle who have had the oval for 120+ years had a pretty big say in it not becoming anything more than it currently is or was for AFL games/the Dockers. Never say never but personally I don't see it happening. It's a shame because you could make a really outstanding boutique stadium that fits into the Fremantle 'aesthetic' as a port city and limestone as far as the eye can see.

https://www.fremantle.wa.gov.au/sites/default/files/Attachment%201%20-Business%20Plan%20Oval%20July%202022.pdf

This document from March 2022 suggests they want to upgrade the ground to a capacity of 12,000 and turn it into a boutique stadium. Is 12k big enough for AFL games? Debatable but maybe you could justify one AFL game there a year against a lower drawing team. Would be a nice nod to the history of footy in the Fremantle region to have their tribal home ground getting some action once a year. A bit like the NRL's Dolphins playing the occasional game in their true home at Redcliffe, but the majority of their home games are played in Brisbane.

 

[JackOutback]

https://www.fremantle.wa.gov.au/sites/default/files/Attachment%201%20-Business%20Plan%20Oval%20July%202022.pdf

This document from March 2022 suggests they want to upgrade the ground to a capacity of 12,000 and turn it into a boutique stadium. Is 12k big enough for AFL games? Debatable but maybe you could justify one AFL game there a year against a lower drawing team. Would be a nice nod to the history of footy in the Fremantle region to have their tribal home ground getting some action once a year. A bit like the NRL's Dolphins playing the occasional game in their true home at Redcliffe, but the majority of their home games are played in Brisbane.

Freo's average crowd in 2019 (the last year before COVID, when they finished 13th) was still almost 34,000. I couldn't find what their lowest drawing game was that year, but 12,000 would never be enough, even against the likes of GC or GWS.

 

[RonnieRaven]

It's the American model of sharing bigger stadiums with teams based in/around your city instead of having several smaller stadiums throughout the city. It makes it easier for the government to continue upgrading stadia because it's a two birds, one stone situation e.g. upgrade Adelaide Oval and you pass on benefits to both the Crows & Power.

I think it makes complete sense for the Crows and Power to share a stadium because both have always been based in the same city and seem to pull similar crowds but I think you could make an argument for Freo playing some games in a boutique stadium based in Fremantle. A lot of people seem to ignore the fact that Fremantle isn't actually in the city of Perth and although it's not quite as extreme as the difference between Melbourne/Geelong or Brisbane/Gold Coast, there is a distinct difference between the two cities. So perhaps in the future we'll see the Dockers playing a few lower drawing games in a boutique stadium based in Fremantle.

The situation in Sydney is a unique one in the sense that technically the Swans and Giants are based in the same city but there is a big cultural/socioeconomic difference between east and west. Plus, the Swans have a considerably larger fan base right now so it wouldn't make much sense for GWS to play home games in a 50,000 seat stadium in east Sydney. The NRL have made this mistake before by sending clubs with small fan bases to play home games at the 80k Olympic stadium and you would often see a near empty stadium on TV when that happened.

Freo are averaging over 48k for home games in 2023.
Even against small vic clubs it’s over 40k when is a boutique stadium going to get used?
If we ever win a flag and recruit bandwagoners we will pull 50k ave.

 

[RonnieRaven]

Freo's average crowd in 2019 (the last year before COVID, when they finished 13th) was still almost 34,000. I couldn't find what their lowest drawing game was that year, but 12,000 would never be enough, even against the likes of GC or GWS.

And we were in year 3 of btm 6.
Not a glory hunter in sight!

 

[p4p1]

https://www.fremantle.wa.gov.au/sites/default/files/Attachment%201%20-Business%20Plan%20Oval%20July%202022.pdf

This document from March 2022 suggests they want to upgrade the ground to a capacity of 12,000 and turn it into a boutique stadium. Is 12k big enough for AFL games? Debatable but maybe you could justify one AFL game there a year against a lower drawing team. Would be a nice nod to the history of footy in the Fremantle region to have their tribal home ground getting some action once a year. A bit like the NRL's Dolphins playing the occasional game in their true home at Redcliffe, but the majority of their home games are played in Brisbane.

Very happy to be proven wrong on this one. It slipped my mind that the AFLW team could use it or that the mens team could play there during the pre-season. Any investment into Freo oval is great IMO. I personally love the place and loved playing there in the finals as a junior.

 

[GC2015]

Freo's average crowd in 2019 (the last year before COVID, when they finished 13th) was still almost 34,000. I couldn't find what their lowest drawing game was that year, but 12,000 would never be enough, even against the likes of GC or GWS.

Freo are averaging over 48k for home games in 2023.
Even against small vic clubs it’s over 40k when is a boutique stadium going to get used?
If we ever win a flag and recruit bandwagoners we will pull 50k ave.

Fair enough. I wasn't necessarily suggesting they should do it. Just that an upgraded Fremantle Oval might make it a possibility if they wanted to one 'tribal' home game a year. Purely from a financial standpoint, it doesn't make much sense and that usually trumps everything else.

 

[RonnieRaven]

Fair enough. I wasn't necessarily suggesting they should do it. Just that an upgraded Fremantle Oval might make it a possibility if they wanted to one 'tribal' home game a year. Purely from a financial standpoint, it doesn't make much sense and that usually trumps everything else.

Best to upgrade it and have it as the women’s home ground it would be great for them and I’m sure lots of dockers local supporters would get around it

 

[kranger]

Freo now play all their AFLW home games at Freo Oval. The redevelopment would be great.

But unfortunately the crowds have been getting smaller over the years and are now similar to the weekly WAFL crowd (though perhaps covid impacted, or because of Freo sliding down the ladder, or S6 &S7 being in the same calendar year).

Hopefully they can bounce back so when Freo Oval is redeveloped there is a great atmosphere.

Freo’s AFLW average crowd at Freo Oval in each season:

2017 Season 1 - 2 games 7,289 average
2018 Season 2 - 2 games 2,848 average
2019 Season 3 - 4 games 5,655 average
2020 Season 4 - 3 games 5,197 average
2021 Season 5 - 4 games 2,815 average
2022 Season 6 - 4 games 2,755 average
2022 Season 7 - 5 games 1,415 average

• 2021 season excludes the derby with no crowd
• Other venues used include Perth Stadium and Rushton Park which have been excluded