Why do workers vote Liberal?

[Caesar]

GST to 20%? Why? Isn’t that inherently regressive?
And why cut the corporate rate any further? See Kansas.

The GST is a very good tax and expanding the base and increasing the rate to some degree is something that I would say most experts (admittedly not all) agree on. It’s mostly a matter of political appetite. Yes it’s a bit regressive, which is why you need to sink some of the resulting revenues into bolstering welfare and cutting income tax, but the benefits outweigh the problems.

Regarding corporate tax, the global trend is down and we haven’t cut our rate enough to keep pace with the rest of the OECD (Germany has knocked ten points off theirs in the last two decades). The OECD now averages a rate of 23.2%. I’d like to see us at or below that if we’re serious at being a competitive location for business.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

Payroll tax could be reformed to capture fewer small businesses, but I don't know if I'd eliminate it entirely. Several big businesses get away with paying little to no corporate tax, and payroll tax can ensure that they at least pay something.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

Payroll tax could be reformed to capture fewer small businesses, but I don't know if I'd eliminate it entirely. Several big businesses get away with paying little to no corporate tax, and payroll tax can ensure that they at least pay something.

payroll rate is a tax that disincentivizes employing people

also it doesnt address the current problem.

our current tax system taxes labour intensive companies (payroll tax) and high realized profit companies (company tax) disproportionately. The issue today is the move to firms with heavy contractor labour pools (ie uber) and firms who reinvest most of their profits (ie Amazon). We need to figure out a way to make sure these firms are taxed appropriately, and there is a lot of debate on this.

Some favour wealth taxes, but these have issues about evasion. Some favour financial transaction taxes, but again easily evaded if all countries dont get on board. Some favour giving companies a pass, and collecting at the point of transaction (GST) and/or realized benefit (CGT, tighten loopholes on income tax)

its one i have no answer on (its not my field, and its a very tough nut to crack)

 

[Johnny Bananas]

Some favour wealth taxes, but these have issues about evasion.

On this point, the Greens' proposal for a wealth tax on billionaires also includes an increase in ATO funding so they can go after assets hidden overseas. Of course, not everyone realising large financial gains from business ownership is a billionaire.

 

[Not Important]

people care about how much money they see in their pay packet at the end of the week

your average worker has a lot more control over their consumption than their income, especially in times of stagnant wages growth

bizarre I have to explain this to a Labor man

and under the libs their wages are shrinking, they've lost security through casualisation, underemployment is rife etc.

as has been said part of labors problem is their poor campaigns ie inability to explain policy. not an easy thing to do as scare campaigns work and the liberals are past masters at it.

 

[Bombermania]

Payroll tax could be reformed to capture fewer small businesses, but I don't know if I'd eliminate it entirely. Several big businesses get away with paying little to no corporate tax, and payroll tax can ensure that they at least pay something.

Payroll tax should be abolished.

Taxing jobs is the dumbest thing.

 

[Caesar]

and under the libs their wages are shrinking, they've lost security through casualisation, underemployment is rife etc.

as has been said part of labors problem is their poor campaigns ie inability to explain policy.

My opinion is that it is always hard to sell people on policy that promises to solve such big and abstract problems

The electorate is cynical and if you say you are going to implement policies that will grow wages and reduce underemployment they are going to be a bit skeptical on your ability to deliver and how much they will personally get out of it.

Growing wages and reducing underemployment is IMO something you campaign on in retrospect - establish a track record and you’ll get re-elected, but promises in advance aren’t worth much.

When you’re in opposition I think it’s better to offer people a straightforward, immediate and measurable benefit - we’ll cut your tax bill by X%, we’ll give you Y hours of free childcare, we’ll put Z dollars into aged care, that sort of thing.

 

[Bombermania]

and under the libs their wages are shrinking, they've lost security through casualisation, underemployment is rife etc.

as has been said part of labors problem is their poor campaigns ie inability to explain policy. not an easy thing to do as scare campaigns work and the liberals are past masters at it.

Its not clear how you can eliminate casualisation or underemployment because there will always be someone that wants more hours than is available.

 

[Christopher Buttersnip]

Its not clear how you can eliminate casualisation or underemployment because there will always be someone that wants more hours than is available.

The issue is there is no choice. It's a condition of employment in so many enterprises these days thanks to the Liberals.

 

[Christopher Buttersnip]

It's a furphy that the Liberals aren't into taxing when it suits. Who introduced the regressive Goods and Services Tax which hits the lower-paid hardest. It's the top end of town who benefit most from Liberal tax adjustments. And it's Labor would want to address the inconsistencies and rorts in the tax system relating to negative gearing, superannuation, franking credits paid to those who pay no tax. All unsustainable.

It's the Liberals who have casualised the workforce removing benefits and security. It's the Liberals who have consistently and relentlessly attacked unions to gift employers carte blanche with employment contracts. Underemployment is at epidemic proportions as the Liberals attempt to further Americanise the workforce. Underpayment of employees by mid and big employers is a growth industry. It's the Liberals who are siphoning funds from those with disabilities to fund other projects. Under the Liberals, wages have remained static for years while executive packages have ballooned. Every time there's a wage case the Liberals fight against wage increases.

Yet workers vote for them.

 

[Baltimore Jack]

Payroll tax should be abolished.

Taxing jobs is the dumbest thing.

You could apply that argument to any tax on business

The alternative is not to tax them at all

 

[Ned_Flanders]

You could apply that argument to any tax on business

The alternative is not to tax them at all

No its not

if you have two businesses, both have $10m turnover, both have a $1m profit, but one employs 5 people and the other employs 100

the latter is generating more jobs, providing more stimulus to the local economy, yet we tax it more heavily

why?

 

[Johnny Bananas]

No its not

if you have two businesses, both have $10m turnover, both have a $1m profit, but one employs 5 people and the other employs 100

the latter is generating more jobs, providing more stimulus to the local economy, yet we tax it more heavily

why?

I'd be happy to excuse both from payroll tax if you could guarantee they both pay their fair share of company tax. Perhaps it could be used as a sort of alternative minimum tax for businesses that shift their profits overseas through "licensing fees".

 

[Bombermania]

You could apply that argument to any tax on business

The alternative is not to tax them at all

Payroll tax is directly applied to a company's payroll which makes it a tax on employment.

 

[Caesar]

Yeah, getting rid of payroll tax is a no-brainer

Nobody really wants payroll tax, the states would happily get rid of it if the federal government replaced the revenue

Main problem is it's a bit of an invisible tax to the average punter - scrapping it in favour of a GST rise or something is a pretty hard political sell

 

[Bombermania]

I'd be happy to excuse both from payroll tax if you could guarantee they both pay their fair share of company tax. Perhaps it could be used as a sort of alternative minimum tax for businesses that shift their profits overseas through "licensing fees".

They are paying their fair share under the tax act.

The tax system isn't just about raising revenue but is also about encouraging certain economic outcome.

 

[Johnny Bananas]

They are paying their fair share under the tax act.

Small businesses, perhaps. Plenty of big businesses engage in tax avoidance, which may be legal, but cannot be considered their fair share in the mind of the average person.

 

[Bombermania]

Small businesses, perhaps. Plenty of big businesses engage in tax avoidance, which may be legal, but cannot be considered their fair share in the mind of the average person.

Tax avoidance is never legal.

Using the tax act to reduce your tax bill is exactly what the tax system is designed to facilitate.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

I'd be happy to excuse both from payroll tax if you could guarantee they both pay their fair share of company tax. Perhaps it could be used as a sort of alternative minimum tax for businesses that shift their profits overseas through "licensing fees".

that doesnt stop an uber or amazon who are yet to post a profit because they reinvest all of their earnings in the company

also, whats "fair"?

if you use revenue, you punish low margin businesses

if you use ROI, you tie companies tax liability to the stock exchange and corporate structures

 

[Kwality]

Just a guess, but correlate how many have Fox and watch Sky News.
Idiots will be idiots.

The 'go to' excuse by the 'elite thinkers' so out of touch with the real world - the L in Labor arent 'elite' nor engrossed with political theory.

 

[Kwality]

so you vote liberal because you like your employer. this is the reason some sort of comprehension test should be mandatory before you are eligible to vote.

The hip pocket nerve is mighty relevant to workers balancing the need for a 2 income family to support the kids & the mortgage.

Both sides of mainstream politics are watching on as their traditional support bases are fracturing, while the administrators & members are looking inward for the solutions, unable to come to grips with climate change , jobs & investment going forward.

 

[Not Important]

personal tax forms a higher proportion of government revenue in Australia than anywhere in the OECD bar Denmark

like to see the evidence. observationally admittedly, but so many i know pay no income tax at all. in any event, perhaps if the liberals stopped the billions paid to taxpayers in franking credits who pay no tax, stopped gifting tax breaks to the wealthy, went after the big end of town who pay little to no tax, did something about negative gearing rorts, superannuation rorts, took some serious action on the way banks etc rip people off (all of which labor has attempted or wanted to do) we'd all be better off.

 

[Caesar]

like to see the evidence.

The AFR article I linked earlier in the thread quotes the numbers from the OECD report

 

[Bestbird]

Not much different to the US where the republican base has shifted to the working class due to a fair bit of xenophobia about immigrants taking my job is one of the reasons

The old joke

A right wing politician, an immigrant and worker go to a bakery to buy a dozen doughnuts. The Pollie takes 11 of them and tells the worker that the immigrant is going to take the last one

 

[Aristotle Pickett the3rd]

Because they're brainwashed by Murdoch propaganda, Morrison government spin and therefore don't understand the urgency of the climate crisis.
Some are just emboldened bigots and racists and they like Dutton shitting on refugees.