Why do workers vote Liberal?

[Ned_Flanders]

The Coalition may very well be to blame for long-term stagnant wages, but it's a hard point to prosecute and harder still to convince people you can fix it - meanwhile your opponents are literally handing out cash to voters

not may well be

the Belgian said down the camera that keeping wages low was "a deliberate design feature of the economic architecture"

 

[Stan_Darsh72]

The ABC is not 'for the left', it just looks that way to someone with your hopelessly skewed worldview. Insiders these days does a sterling job of repeating LNP talking points.

And most of the ABC board is made up of ex Murdoch, Ex Mining and Ex fairfax bosses.

 

[Caesar]

not may well be

the Belgian said down the camera that keeping wages low was "a deliberate design feature of the economic architecture"

No. He said that downward flexibility in wages was a deliberate design feature of the economic architecture.

The general principle he was putting across in that answer was that wages should be allowed to drop in times of economic difficulty to prevent rises in the unemployment rate, and growth in wages should come naturally as a result of economic growth rather than be forced by interventionist government policy.

Personally it's not something I agree with 100%, and it fails to address the elephant in the room (i.e. wages have not grown in line with economic growth) - but it's a long way from saying that the government has a policy of wage suppression.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

No. He said that downward flexibility in wages was a deliberate design feature of the economic architecture.

The general principle he was putting across in that answer was that wages should be allowed to drop in times of economic hardship to prevent rises in the unemployment rate, and growth in wages should come naturally as a result of economic growth rather than interventionist government policy.

It's not a principle that I personally endorse 100%, but it's a long way from saying that the government has a policy of wage suppression.

downward flexibility is keeping wages low, and it was a policy he was advocating when we were expanding, not contracting

liberal policy is for working stiffs to be paid as little as companies can get away with. why you think they cheerlead converting FT salaried jobs into independent contractors?

 

[Caesar]

downward flexibility is keeping wages low, and it was a policy he was advocating when we were expanding, not contracting

He was addressing Shorten's policy to legislate increased wages, by pointing out that it would eliminate downward wage price flexibility that would potentially exacerbate unemployment in times of economic contraction.

At no stage did he say that wages should drop or stay low whilst the economy was growing. In fact he said the opposite.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

He was addressing Shorten's policy to legislate increased wages, by pointing out that it would eliminate any downward wage price flexibility and potentially lead to greater unemployment during economic downturns.

At no stage did he say that wages should drop or stay low whilst the economy was growing.

was the economy growing or contracting that year?

he said a statement assuming only people like you were listening, and told the truth

his problem was others were listening

 

[Caesar]

was the economy growing or contracting that year?

It is entirely irrelevant - the statement was not specific to a point in time, it was a comment on broader policy objectives that span the economic cycle... but if you want to take the sentence out of context, that is your business - albeit intellectually dishonest

The real problem with his statement - and one that David Speers did not bother to press him on at the time - is that he claimed the benefit of his preferred policy was that it meant wages rise organically in line with economic expansion, which demonstrably was not happening.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

It is entirely irrelevant - the statement was not specific to a point in time, it was a comment on broader policy objectives that span the economic cycle... but if you want to take the sentence out of context, that is your business - albeit intellectually dishonest

The real problem with his statement - and one that David Speers did not bother to press him on at the time - is that he claimed the benefit of his preferred policy was that it meant wages rise organically in line with economic expansion, which demonstrably was not happening.

so lets see outcome, how has wage growth been since he said that in real terms?

 

[Caesar]

so lets see outcome, how has wage growth been since he said that in real terms?

Terrible. The Coalition has a real problem with effecting real wage growth in line with GDP. I have never disagreed with that.

I only took issue with your false claim that Cormann said they had a policy of deliberate wage suppression

 

[Ned_Flanders]

Terrible. The Coalition has a real problem with effecting real wage growth in line with GDP. I have never disagreed with that.

I only took issue with your false claim that Cormann said they had a policy of deliberate wage suppression

so we have a poli saying its built into the economic architecture to push wages down, and wages are pushed down.

seems like "mission accomplished" to me

 

[MC Bad Genius]

so we have a poli saying its built into the economic architecture to push wages down, and wages are pushed down.

seems like "mission accomplished" to me

You're either missing his point completely, or arguing in bad faith.

 

[Caesar]

so we have a poli saying its built into the economic architecture to push wages down

No. We have a politician saying that it's built into the economic architecture that when the economy contracts, wages fall to offset a rise in unemployment.

The real issue, as I think you'd agree, is why wages haven't risen in line with economic expansion. The comment neatly sidestepped that, and the interviewer let him get away with it.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

You're either missing his point completely, or arguing in bad faith.

im arguing that talk of wage downward flexibility is always a plan for wage suppression. and given what we have had is wage suppression for this entire govt, im taking them for their words (for once) matching their deeds

 

[Kwality]

this is where you are a massive hypocrite

you say tax the rich, but you were captain franking credits in the election

funny how every suggestion you have for labour is to guarantee liberal victory

The problem for the franking credits tax was the way it ignored ordinary Mum & Dad investors. Good idea, dismally executed.


The explanation of the tax reeked of overconfidence. Mr Bowen got it on one, yet no one owns it.

 

[Kwality]

And most of the ABC board is made up of ex Murdoch, Ex Mining and Ex fairfax bosses.

Those bosses eh!

 

[Ned_Flanders]

The problem for the franking credits tax was the way it ignored ordinary Mum & Dad investors. Good idea, dismally executed.


The explanation of the tax reeked of overconfidence. Mr Bowen got it on one, yet no one owns it.

wrong - it was covered in the post election autopsy the party did

 

[ralphmalph]

Some of you might find this interesting

https://australianelectionstudy.org/wp-content/uploads/The-2019-Australian-Federal-Election-Results-from-the-Australian-Election-Study.pdf

 

[Kwality]

wrong - it was covered in the post election autopsy the party did

Yet it keeps being regurgitated. Perhaps its some of its protagonists not buying the mea culpa.
Personally I believe its a fair tax, poorly drafted & poorly executed.

 

[Ned_Flanders]

Yet it keeps being regurgitated. Perhaps its some of its protagonists not buying the mea culpa.
Personally I believe its a fair tax poorly drafted & poorly executed.

link to any labour poli promoting the removal of franking taxes this year (should be easy if it keeps being regurgitated)

 

[Stan_Darsh72]

Those bosses eh!

Ita Buttrose - Given chair position despite not being shortlisted, former executive at NewsCorp, Network 10 and Fairfax

Peter Lewis - Chair of McGrath Ltd (real estate agents), Anacacia Private Equity fund, has been a board member for Yahoo7 and ANC (NewsCorp subsidiary),
former CFO of Seven Network Ltd, Seven Group Holdings Ltd, Seven Media Group, and Seven West Media Ltd

Joseph Gersh - Gersh Investment Partners (real estate investment firm),
director of The Sydney Institute (offshoot of the IPA, funded by Shell, Boral, AMP, Australia Post, Macquarie Bank, Corrs Chambers Westgarth, Britich Telecom, Philip Morris - tobacco)
Former Australia Council board

Peter Tonagh - former VP and partner of The Boston Consulting Group, former NewsCorp and Foxtel chief, Quantium chairman (huge data science company, owned by Woolworths), director Village Roadshow,
In 2018 he lead the National Broadcaster Efficiency Review of the ABC and SBS on behalf of the Department of Communications and the Arts.
Member of the Council of the Australian Film Television and Radio School

Mario D'Orazio - AIM WA chairman, Australia Post board, former Seven executive, former Australia Council

Fiona Balfour - board at Land Services SA (private real estate firm https://au.linkedin.com/company/land-services-sa),
Airservices Australia, Western Sydney Airport Corporation board (https://www.afr.com/politics/optus-...n-to-build-new-sydney-airport-20170807-gxqknj)
former Metcash board, former Quantas and Telstra CIO

What a great list for the "left wing" ABC

 

[Kwality]

Ita Buttrose - Given chair position despite not being shortlisted, former executive at NewsCorp, Network 10 and Fairfax

Peter Lewis - Chair of McGrath Ltd (real estate agents), Anacacia Private Equity fund, has been a board member for Yahoo7 and ANC (NewsCorp subsidiary),
former CFO of Seven Network Ltd, Seven Group Holdings Ltd, Seven Media Group, and Seven West Media Ltd

Joseph Gersh - Gersh Investment Partners (real estate investment firm),
director of The Sydney Institute (offshoot of the IPA, funded by Shell, Boral, AMP, Australia Post, Macquarie Bank, Corrs Chambers Westgarth, Britich Telecom, Philip Morris - tobacco)
Former Australia Council board

Peter Tonagh - former VP and partner of The Boston Consulting Group, former NewsCorp and Foxtel chief, Quantium chairman (huge data science company, owned by Woolworths), director Village Roadshow,
In 2018 he lead the National Broadcaster Efficiency Review of the ABC and SBS on behalf of the Department of Communications and the Arts.
Member of the Council of the Australian Film Television and Radio School

Mario D'Orazio - AIM WA chairman, Australia Post board, former Seven executive, former Australia Council

Fiona Balfour - board at Land Services SA (private real estate firm https://au.linkedin.com/company/land-services-sa),
Airservices Australia, Western Sydney Airport Corporation board (https://www.afr.com/politics/optus-...n-to-build-new-sydney-airport-20170807-gxqknj)
former Metcash board, former Quantas and Telstra CIO

What a great list for the "left wing" ABC

With the taxpayer money involved, we dont need people with L plates.
It was the description 'bosses' that amused me.

 

[Kwality]

link to any labour poli promoting the removal of franking taxes this year (should be easy if it keeps being regurgitated)

I accept your point, perhaps its my interest that makes me feel as I do. Fair taxes are not easy to find.

 

[Leeda]

He was addressing Shorten's policy to legislate increased wages, by pointing out that it would eliminate downward wage price flexibility that would potentially exacerbate unemployment in times of economic contraction.

At no stage did he say that wages should drop or stay low whilst the economy was growing. In fact he said the opposite.

Hello mr who..

 

[Leeda]

I accept your point, perhaps its my interest that makes me feel as I do. Fair taxes are not easy to find.

Fair is not quality

sumthing is wrong... you like me nomore

 

[Not Important]

Not at all - more that people living in a precarious financial situation week-to-week don't have the luxury of thinking too big

You need to give people short-term fixes before they can focus on long-term ones

well, people who look for short-term hip pocket solutions are thick. also, you'd be surprised at how many of the great unwashed couldn't tell you who is the treasurer or the opposition leader, even the p.m. vox pops have shown this time and again. people who look no further than the next pay packet and lose sight of the loss of benefits they once had like secure full time jobs, pay rises that reflect price changes, safety on work sites, choice of conditions, not to mention bigger picture things like climate change (for their kids if not them) etc etc deserve a corrupt government whose policies benefit the rich and influential and work in opposition to theirs. which is what they've got.