Will soccer ever be a serious threat to footy, long-term?

[LB#16]

The threat to the AFL is not from the A league, so it's inability to grow is irrelevant. It is from soccer itself. People think the talent is stretched thin now, what happens if the best junior's start dreaming of playing for Man U or Real Madrid, and not Eagles or pies?

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Dreaming about playing for Real Madrid and actually doing it are two different things. Millions in other continents are dreaming of the same thing. Playing for the AFL club you grew up watching is much more realistic so overseas juggernauts from other sports poaching our youth to the point of bleeding the AFL dry is very unrealistic. Why get a leisurely Aussie when you can get a focused, disciplined kid from Asia or Europe?

 

[jatz14]

Dreaming about playing for Real Madrid and actually doing it are two different things. Millions in other continents are dreaming of the same thing. Playing for the AFL club you grew up watching is much more realistic so overseas juggernauts from other sports poaching our youth to the point of bleeding the AFL dry is very unrealistic. Why get a leisurely Aussie when you can get a focused, disciplined kid from Asia or Europe?

They do not have to do it, it just has to make them pursue soccer, then they are lost to footy

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[Slax]

Name some kids that never played football but soccer all their lives and swapped over mid teens and made it to the AFL, i would be surprised if there are many.

So the fact that players can transfer from Gaelic football, American football, rugby union and ever rugby league to play AFL doesn't suggest that juniors here can convert. I can't think of any AFL player to change to any other code other than American football, then purely as a punter which isn't much of a change.

If you think it isn't a threat or problem then explain why junior soccer numbers in traditional AFL states are far higher than AFL, even though registrations fees for soccer are between 2-4 times higher for soccer? In under 12s we aren't talking 55-45 split we are talking 70-30 in favour of soccer. I know that in my area in the NE of Melbourne their are vacancies in junior football clubs that they were trying to fill even in the recent school holidays, this is for a top Division 1 NFL side. Whilst at the local soccer club there is a waiting list, this is a community club, go to an NPL club and you won't get in unless invited or you know someone there.

The change has happened at junior level it is now a question of how long it takes to flow through to under 17s and TAC Cup level. Numbers at school level are the same. Where I went there were 8 senior AFL team side (year 11 & 12 students) 25 years ago & 2 soccer sides. That number is now 5-6, this from a school that has been a very prolific breeding ground for AFL players consistently for well over 30 years.

 

[Garlic muncher]

So the fact that players can transfer from Gaelic football, American football, rugby union and ever rugby league to play AFL doesn't suggest that juniors here can convert. I can't think of any AFL player to change to any other code other than American football, then purely as a punter which isn't much of a change.

If you think it isn't a threat or problem then explain why junior soccer numbers in traditional AFL states are far higher than AFL, even though registrations fees for soccer are between 2-4 times higher for soccer? In under 12s we aren't talking 55-45 split we are talking 70-30 in favour of soccer. I know that in my area in the NE of Melbourne their are vacancies in junior football clubs that they were trying to fill even in the recent school holidays, this is for a top Division 1 NFL side. Whilst at the local soccer club there is a waiting list, this is a community club, go to an NPL club and you won't get in unless invited or you know someone there.

The change has happened at junior level it is now a question of how long it takes to flow through to under 17s and TAC Cup level. Numbers at school level are the same. Where I went there were 8 senior AFL team side (year 11 & 12 students) 25 years ago & 2 soccer sides. That number is now 5-6, this from a school that has been a very prolific breeding ground for AFL players consistently for well over 30 years.

I really love how you just make up stats, you tend to do it and run, how about you produce some stats that prove your assertion that in traditional AFL states there are more kids playing soccer ?.


You still haven't named one player that played soccer all his life then swapped to football and made it to the AFL, but you have claimed there is plenty.

I await all these players names and your stats.

 

[Garlic muncher]

So the fact that players can transfer from Gaelic football, American football, rugby union and ever rugby league to play AFL doesn't suggest that juniors here can convert. I can't think of any AFL player to change to any other code other than American football, then purely as a punter which isn't much of a change.

If you think it isn't a threat or problem then explain why junior soccer numbers in traditional AFL states are far higher than AFL, even though registrations fees for soccer are between 2-4 times higher for soccer? In under 12s we aren't talking 55-45 split we are talking 70-30 in favour of soccer. I know that in my area in the NE of Melbourne their are vacancies in junior football clubs that they were trying to fill even in the recent school holidays, this is for a top Division 1 NFL side. Whilst at the local soccer club there is a waiting list, this is a community club, go to an NPL club and you won't get in unless invited or you know someone there.

The change has happened at junior level it is now a question of how long it takes to flow through to under 17s and TAC Cup level. Numbers at school level are the same. Where I went there were 8 senior AFL team side (year 11 & 12 students) 25 years ago & 2 soccer sides. That number is now 5-6, this from a school that has been a very prolific breeding ground for AFL players consistently for well over 30 years.

In fact you made the same claim in 2014 which was soundly smacked down .... https://www.bigfooty.com/forum/thre...eague-soccer-under-strict-moderation.1072194/

You stated soccer has more club players in Victoria than footy - you were clearly wrong then and clearly wrong now.

serial pest really

i have no doubt you will produce nothing of note to prove your claim

 

[papabear]

It depends on the top line product.

I cant speak from an AFL/Victorian experience.

But in terms of sydney, you can certainly play soccer and still support rugby league, you don't even have to go to the games .

Honestly, I think playing and watching games are different things, I thoroughly enjoy playing ping pong, but I dont thoroughly enjoy watching it.

In the end it will be up to the organisation as to whether they focus there resources on both being played and watched or one more then the other.

 

[Silent Alarm]

Nah. I'm really interested in the progress of soccer here in Australia, and I'm a soccer fan. I like tracking the way they operate (for the most part its as amateur as it was in the derided 90s) but the AFL is all over them.

I guess soccer always hopes it'll get in the refugees. Doesn't really work. They integrate and there is still the social allure of Aussie Rules, as well as the money in funding the AFL has. The AFL's money is stunning – it would be very interesting to see how the FFA would go in comparison if they had even 50% of footballs funds.

Honestly the FFA are idiots constantly shooting themselves in the foot. The A-League could be a 12 team comp where the top few clubs average 30,000 crowds and the bottom few get 7,000 but it would operate well. The Socceroos could be the sort of side who make the World Cup last 16 as a formality. However they are incredibly short sighted up in Sydney – pay tv dollars instead of the omnipresence of a free-to-air broadcast deal. Then there are the astronomical fees (kids paying $130 at about 8, whereas what's Auskick? 40 bucks?), the terrible talent pathways and how incredibly muddled and convoluted it is (there is no obvious pattern: you don't go well for a junior club, then play for a WAFL or TAC Cup development side until you reach colts, and then the best of each year showing it off at the respective carnivals)... it'll never happen. Soccer loves ******* itself up here.

 

[thegreig]

Name some kids that never played football but soccer all their lives and swapped over mid teens and made it to the AFL, i would be surprised if there are many.

Liam Shiels didn't start till he was 16. That was the last year of junior footy at the time, played soccer up until then

 

[Gigantor]

Liam Shiels didn't start till he was 16. That was the last year of junior footy at the time, played soccer up until then

He's from Melbourne isn't he? You reckon he spent his whole life in Melbourne and never stumbled across a footy?

 

[Garlic muncher]

If you think it isn't a threat or problem then explain why junior soccer numbers in traditional AFL states are far higher than AFL, even though registrations fees for soccer are between 2-4 times higher for soccer? In under 12s we aren't talking 55-45 split we are talking 70-30 in favour of soccer. I know that in my area in the NE of Melbourne their are vacancies in junior football clubs that they were trying to fill even in the recent school holidays, this is for a top Division 1 NFL side. Whilst at the local soccer club there is a waiting list, this is a community club, go to an NPL club and you won't get in unless invited or you know someone there.

.

You even state they are far higher

1) Still waiting for some stats, any stats that prove your assertion ?.

2) Or is it just your typical - make up some stuff - and then do a runner ?.

I am guessing statement 2

 

[threenewpadlocks]

One issue for soccer is that the cost of participating at a quality standard during the teenage years is much higher because semi-professional clubs have a funding model where they pay their senior team from the funds raised from talented juniors's coaching and participation fees.

If they can get their act together in this regard Soccer could grow a lot faster and quicker.

 

[Gigantor]

One issue for soccer is that the cost of participating at a quality standard during the teenage years is much higher because semi-professional clubs have a funding model where they pay their senior team from the funds raised from talented juniors's coaching and participation fees.

If they can get their act together in this regard Soccer could grow a lot faster and quicker.

That pretty much is the soccer model in Australia, and it's unlikely to change in a hurry because there a stacks of junior soccer clubs absolutely rolling in money because people are prepared to pay the money being asked.

So we've ended up with this crazy situation where some junior soccer clubs have far more money than some A-League clubs.

 

[Slax]

You even state they are far higher

1) Still waiting for some stats, any stats that prove your assertion ?.

2) Or is it just your typical - make up some stuff - and then do a runner ?.

I am guessing statement 2

I'm trying to confirm when some transferred to footy whilst it is one thing to find out that the likes of players like Eddie Betts, Fasolo and others were top junior soccer player when they crossed to AFL is a lot more difficult and that is what you want to me to do.

 

[peppy la pew]

I read recently that soccer participation numbers are up in America while baseball no's are down.

Clive played soccer before switching to Aussie Rules

 

[thegreig]

He's from Melbourne isn't he? You reckon he spent his whole life in Melbourne and never stumbled across a footy?

Yes he is and of course he was exposed to footy I never said he wasn't, the question was name an AFL player who grew up playing soccer that now plays AFL. I went to school with Liam and he didn't start play footy with the basin bears until under 16s up until then it was all soccer

 

[Garlic muncher]

I'm trying to confirm when some transferred to footy whilst it is one thing to find out that the likes of players like Eddie Betts, Fasolo and others were top junior soccer player when they crossed to AFL is a lot more difficult and that is what you want to me to do.

Fasolo's - LOL, he went to Trinity College in Perth, I have a very intimate knowledge of that school, he played club football and school football.

I am awaiting some sort of confirmation of your claims that far more kids in AFL states play soccer than footy, put up the stats - you even stated it was a 70/30 split at under 12 level.

To claim such a thing you must have some stats - put em up !!.

 

[Garlic muncher]

Yes he is and of course he was exposed to footy I never said he wasn't, the question was name an AFL player who grew up playing soccer that now plays AFL. I went to school with Liam and he didn't start play footy with the basin bears until under 16s up until then it was all soccer

The question was not name a AFL PLAYER ( singular) it was name the multitude of players that had played soccer until mid teenage years then converted to footy and went on to play in the AFL, Slax claims there are many many such players - but yet we are struggling to name a couple and the ones we do name probably kicked round a Sherrin anyway

 

[WagonBang]

I don't think the AFL have to worry about the A-League as a whole. It's improving slowly but in my life time it won't over take it.

What is happening though is the A-League is becoming a great development league for our young players. Just have to look at the Asian Cup winning Socceroos squad to see how many developed in the A-League. It's giving young players a great stepping stone to for fill there dreams/careers especially with the outstanding facilities the two Melbourne Clubs have. FFA Cup gives it another path way as well.

The FFA however though..... they constantly f*** up. A new chapter with Steven Lowy seems to be making changes for the better however.

 

[peppy la pew]

Aliir Aliir played soccer as a junior

 

[HavUEvaSeenTheRain]

Over half the kids at our local football club play/played soccer but it's seen just like basketball and fishing as more of a hobby. If that changes which it hasn't in last 15 years then maybe the AFL has something to worry about

 

[Eaglemaniac]

Been hearing this for 30 years, and it hasnt happened. Mums want the kids playing soccer as juniors coz they think they have less chance of getting hurt, but when the kids get a bit older they tend to want a bit of contact so often change to footy. MInd you, if the AFL keeps stuffing around with the rules of the game its bound to turn a few people off.

 

[thegreig]

The question was not name a AFL PLAYER ( singular) it was name the multitude of players that had played soccer until mid teenage years then converted to footy and went on to play in the AFL, Slax claims there are many many such players - but yet we are struggling to name a couple and the ones we do name probably kicked round a Sherrin anyway

Exactly, which is why I put down an example of a player to get the ball rolling and I expect others to do the same, this is a public forum.

Edit: for what it's worth I agree with you that there probably aren't many

 

[XXRL]

FWIW, I'm a long time soccer player and fan, and a long time footy fan.

Soccer has close to three times the participation that Australian football has.

The advantages of soccer, relative to Aussie Rules are quite clear: less risk of head injury, international exposure (EPL, World Cup etc), it's played nation-wide without the divide of AFL vs NRL, and has much much greater female participation.

Will soccer ever be a threat to footy? My answer is yes, to an extent.

One of the key advantages of footy is the FTA TV saturation, but as the media landscape becomes more fragmented, FTA has decreasing relevance as a medium. Over time this important competitive advantage of footy will become less significant and people will consume their sport online, meaning people have much greater choice regarding what sport they consume. I would argue the increasing interest in Australia in the NBA is part of this trend.

Sports participation:

Source: http://www.roymorgan.com/findings/6...hildren-and-adults-december-2014-201503182151

 

[Kwality]

I'm trying to confirm when some transferred to footy whilst it is one thing to find out that the likes of players like Eddie Betts, Fasolo and others were top junior soccer player when they crossed to AFL is a lot more difficult and that is what you want to me to do.

Wasn't Eddie a Kalgoorlie boy (Mines Rovers) before moving to Port Lincoln then on to Templestowe in Melbourne to a footy program run by Phil Krakouer, going on to play U18s for Vic metro. As I remember he was cut by the Blues at one point & went home to Kal.

Mines Rovers gave Alec Epis to the VFL amongst many others.

 

[Kwality]

Over half the kids at our local football club play/played soccer but it's seen just like basketball and fishing as more of a hobby. If that changes which it hasn't in last 15 years then maybe the AFL has something to worry about

Adds to my contention that participation in any sport by kids is irrelevant to growth of any game at its highest level, witness basketball 20 years back.