Traded 12. Cooper Stephens (2020-2022)

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burto said:
But then who gives the rating for who is top 10, and why are they better than anyone else? “Experts” are mostly regurgitating market information. I’m willing to back our own expert here in Steve Wells because he has a pretty good track record over a long period of time. Beware of the trend - it isn’t your friend.


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Every year, there is an article where they go back and rate the top 10 from year XXYY. It’s never ever the order that they were drafted in.
 
From the GFC Website...

www.geelongcats.com.au

Pick 16: Cooper Stephens

Cooper Stephens has been selected with Geelong’s first pick in this year’s NAB AFL National Draft.
www.geelongcats.com.au www.geelongcats.com.au

GO Catters
 
Danger2Selwood said:
For the last time, I'm seriously getting sick of this. It is MY OPINION that you should have a standout attribute and preferebly multiple to be a superstar at the elite level. I have never said the kid won't make it. In fact, I've said the opposite. I've said I believe he'll make it due to his incredible work ethic and ability to get the best out of himself, go through my posts if you don't believe me. I just don't see superstar potential.

In.
My.
Opinion.

Some do see that superstar potential, and that's fair enough, just differing opinions, kinda the whole point of a message board.

To answer your question:

Selwood - Unrivalled, animalistic attack on the footy like no other. Standout attribute. Take this away and he's probably just a slightly above average player, a Brad Ebert type. But it's Joel's incredible attack on the ball which separates him from his peers.

Hodge - Elite and I mean elite kicking and decision making while also reading the play at an incredibly high standard. Standout attribute(s).

Kelly - Not an A-Grader, I'm talking Superstars here, James Kelly was never a superstar. Very good player and champion of our club, never a superstar.

Boris - Similar to Hodge, incredible reading of the play and a very good kick. Can barely remember this bloke making a bad decision. Standout attribute(s)

Joel Corey I'll give you. Not the most talented bloke but got the absolute best out of himself. Hopefully Cooper can become a similar player.

Also very convenient of you too only pick one current player in your list. Give me one and preferebly more than one current superstar in the league right now with no standout attribute.


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You basically have an approach here which just proves you right on any view.

None of those blokes were obviously significantly better than this kid when drafted. All of them had to work hard to develop their skills.

There's zero evidence in the footage available for you to conclude that Stephens does not in fact have a manic attack on the ball, good kicking skills or a good ability to read the play. If you saw a 2 minute clip of Joel Selwood from 2005 you would have to come to the same conclusions, will never be more than a b-grader.

I am mostly baffled that people are so ******* quick to write off a promising draftee on the basis of 2 minutes of pixellated footage and zero games played. It's completely ridiculous.
 

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caitsith01 said:
You basically have an approach here which just proves you right on any view.

None of those blokes were obviously significantly better than this kid when drafted. All of them had to work hard to develop their skills.

There's zero evidence in the footage available for you to conclude that Stephens does not in fact have a manic attack on the ball, good kicking skills or a good ability to read the play. If you saw a 2 minute clip of Joel Selwood from 2005 you would have to come to the same conclusions, will never be more than a b-grader.

I am mostly baffled that people are so ******* quick to write off a promising draftee on the basis of 2 minutes of pixellated footage and zero games played. It's completely ridiculous.
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Enright especially. He was drafted in much the same way as Evans.
Nobody had heard of him, not even other recruiters.
 
caitsith01 said:
You basically have an approach here which just proves you right on any view.

None of those blokes were obviously significantly better than this kid when drafted. All of them had to work hard to develop their skills.

There's zero evidence in the footage available for you to conclude that Stephens does not in fact have a manic attack on the ball, good kicking skills or a good ability to read the play. If you saw a 2 minute clip of Joel Selwood from 2005 you would have to come to the same conclusions, will never be more than a b-grader.

I am mostly baffled that people are so ******* quick to write off a promising draftee on the basis of 2 minutes of pixellated footage and zero games played. It's completely ridiculous.
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Well I have watched him and analysed him live and agree with Danger2Selwood. Does that mean I am right no. Does it mean I have any near as much info as the recruiting group no. However we are here because we love chatting about the cats and exchanging opinions. If we just said this is who we selected and the cats will be right cause they know more then any discussion is finished really.

For mine is is thoroughly uninspiring. However athletically his is built for the modern game so he could easily prove me wrong. He is an average kick at best and seems to double grab a bit for mine. However, he could quite easily turn into a Joel Corey and I would take that and run for the hills.

There are question marks and there is a very small sample size to go on from his draft age year but all I can say is I hope he makes me look like the worst judge of talent ever after becoming the fourth greatest Cat of all time!!
 
I was a bit perplexed on Thursday when we selected Stephens over Kemp or Robertson but I know nothing beyond reading phantom drafts online and watching a few 90 second highlight packages.

Reality is that if we didn't use #16 on him, he would have certainly been drafted in the next 3-5 picks by Carlton or Richmond, potentially even #17 by Carlton.

This is not a Darcy Lang situation - Lang was literally a shock first round selection (rated #49 in Knightmare's 2013 phantom draft) that didn't work out. Stephens has been regarded a late first rounder for 12+ months and would not have lasted beyond #20 this year.
 
I posted this at the time but Cockarfitt was all over Cooper before he did his leg .... i remember him being big On his skills and ability. He was right so far.

Go Catters
 
Tristan34 said:
You are definitely entitled to your opinion, but If you are wrong can you bite the bullet and admit it?
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Absolutely. I have said frequently throughout my posts that I wish the kid nothing but the best, and bloody hope I'm made to look like a fool. Wait and see, I'm rooting for him that's for sure.


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foodles05 said:
Well I have watched him and analysed him live and agree with Danger2Selwood. Does that mean I am right no. Does it mean I have any near as much info as the recruiting group no. However we are here because we love chatting about the cats and exchanging opinions. If we just said this is who we selected and the cats will be right cause they know more then any discussion is finished really.

For mine is is thoroughly uninspiring. However athletically his is built for the modern game so he could easily prove me wrong. He is an average kick at best and seems to double grab a bit for mine. However, he could quite easily turn into a Joel Corey and I would take that and run for the hills.

There are question marks and there is a very small sample size to go on from his draft age year but all I can say is I hope he makes me look like the worst judge of talent ever after becoming the fourth greatest Cat of all time!!
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Careful, apparently you're not allowed to have a differing opinion to the All mighty Stephen Wells around here.


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caitsith01 said:
You basically have an approach here which just proves you right on any view.

None of those blokes were obviously significantly better than this kid when drafted. All of them had to work hard to develop their skills.

There's zero evidence in the footage available for you to conclude that Stephens does not in fact have a manic attack on the ball, good kicking skills or a good ability to read the play. If you saw a 2 minute clip of Joel Selwood from 2005 you would have to come to the same conclusions, will never be more than a b-grader.

I am mostly baffled that people are so ******* quick to write off a promising draftee on the basis of 2 minutes of pixellated footage and zero games played. It's completely ridiculous.
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You still haven't answered my question


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Strange Cat said:
You poor victim
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What do you want me to say?

"Cheers guys for calling me a nuffie or a hater just because I have a different opinion to our recruiter"

What do you think a forum is for? It's a collection of people discussing their opinions in hopefully a respectful manor. Like Foodles said, if we all agreed with each other we'd have about 10 replies per thread.

"Oh well player X looks great, Wells has done it again, carry on"

It wouldn't exactly be Interesting if we all agreed would it.


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Danger2Selwood said:
What do you want me to say?

"Cheers guys for calling me a nuffie or a hater just because I have a different opinion to our recruiter"

What do you think a forum is for? It's a collection of people discussing their opinions in hopefully a respectful manor. Like Foodles said, if we all agreed with each other we'd have about 10 replies per thread.

"Oh well player X looks great, Wells has done it again, carry on"

It wouldn't exactly be Interesting if we all agreed would it.


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You need a hug
 
Darcy Lang played a couple of games, maybe even his last one for us, where I think I got his selection.

Wonder how Wells reflects on these successes and failures to tweak his process. He still seems an old fashioned recruiter that goes with his eye from the comments made when recruiting Evans.

Are there more Cooper Stephens highlights on YouTube?
 
Danger2Selwood said:
Absolutely. I have said frequently throughout my posts that I wish the kid nothing but the best, and bloody hope I'm made to look like a fool. Wait and see, I'm rooting for him that's for sure.


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You can have any opinion you want...

But if you use another seppo term like that again ill ban you for a year :)))))

GO Catters
 
l was surprised to see how tall Cooper looked alongside DeKoning, although listed whenever at 188cm, he certainly looked all that and more pictured with Sam D.
Wouldn't be surprised if he was 190cm he certainly still looked tall alongside Sam D who we know is all of 201cm.
 
fpm84 said:
I was a bit perplexed on Thursday when we selected Stephens over Kemp or Robertson but I know nothing beyond reading phantom drafts online and watching a few 90 second highlight packages.

Reality is that if we didn't use #16 on him, he would have certainly been drafted in the next 3-5 picks by Carlton or Richmond, potentially even #17 by Carlton.

This is not a Darcy Lang situation - Lang was literally a shock first round selection (rated #49 in Knightmare's 2013 phantom draft) that didn't work out. Stephens has been regarded a late first rounder for 12+ months and would not have lasted beyond #20 this year.
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Agree. Cooper was gone the next pick. I’m more than happy with him over Kemp now he’s done the ACL. History says they are never the same when done young.

Like most I was disappointed not to get Robertson but it wasn’t just Wells that overlooked him. Stephens was ranked the better player by a lot of clubs.
 
Holy moly people some people are going full henny penny over this. Richmond linked to him before draft with pick 21, Carlton traded up for the pick after ours right before we selected him with media heads suggesting they were trading to get Cooper after we were obviously going to take Dev Robertson. Then when we take Cooper no one else takes Dev until the second round despite mids Philp and Dow being selected by sides previously linked to Cooper. Sounds like the professional list management teams at Carlton and noted recent premiership side Richmond agree that Cooper was the appropriate selection. So can we all just chill out until the kid at least plays a JLT match? Thanks
Screenshot_20191129-215751_Chrome.jpg
 
Danger2Selwood said:
Careful, apparently you're not allowed to have a differing opinion to the All mighty Stephen Wells around here.


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That's the thing about having an opinion—others might not share it. You've expressed your opinion. Nobody has stopped you or deleted your posts.

On the matter of recruiting I choose not to have an opinion, because the following:

2 minutes of highlights are not equivalent to the hours the recruiters spend watching the player.
A short blurb on big footy or in the media about the player is not equivalent to the information recruiters hold.
I am not a recruiter. I have not spent my life in the industry.
Unlike the recruiters, I have never met the player, or spoken to his family.
Unlike the recruiters, I am not 'at the table' to discuss specific list needs.
And I recognise that drafting is pure speculation. Take even the first rounders: a few will be stars, some will have decent careers, the rest will fail completely. By the third round, the majority will not make it all.

I know we live in a culture where having an opinion is the most important thing in the world, and that an internet connection apparently makes us all experts on everything, but it's actually liberating to say— 'screw that, I don't know, others are better placed to judge, so I'll reserve judgment. I don't have an opinion.'

Like you, I wish all the players drafted the best in the hoops, and like you I hope they have great careers. But I have no idea whether they are good, bad, or indifferent picks.
 
Danger2Selwood said:
What do you want me to say?

"Cheers guys for calling me a nuffie or a hater just because I have a different opinion to our recruiter"

What do you think a forum is for? It's a collection of people discussing their opinions in hopefully a respectful manor. Like Foodles said, if we all agreed with each other we'd have about 10 replies per thread.

"Oh well player X looks great, Wells has done it again, carry on"

It wouldn't exactly be Interesting if we all agreed would it.


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I definitely don't agree with Wells no matter what, and l reckon it's not a good thing when people flare up because they read something that's not in line with their own thoughts or Wells.
That's just pathetic. Fact is all these picks are speculative till they are generally a year or more into their senior careers.
We all should understand that much.

I liked the way CS managed his year after injury, to me his eventual combine spoke plenty of the player he well may become.
After posting positively about that, l was
ridiculed by a particular poster that wanted to make issue with me over my posting how well he'd done.
Did l like his attitude no, but he was certainly entitled to disagree respectfully.
Reckon everyone deserves that much.
 
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