Women's cricket in 2021 (now playing: Zim v Ire)

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Scratchy05

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I think I've already explained that, especially in the Grace Harris blurb.


Again, I've already shared the view that reliable top-order batsmen are the most valuable players in women's cricket. Only got her so high on the list because I see her possessing, and gradually harnessing, the potential to become that.


Top of what?


An awesome first season for Dandenong*, given she didn't even play WBBL. So if I'm off by 50, it's in the other direction.

And the national selectors should definitely not be, and never will be, giving a fringe spot in the squad to a 25yo bowling all-rounder ahead of a 19yo identified as their next no.3 bat.

*as accurate as saying it was her first season in Australia
She played WNCL and had the 2nd most wickets at an average of 22 with only Strano above and Wareham equal, 2 proven performers. And I'm not arguing for her to be above Sutherland on this list because as you said, Sutherland is young and has heaps of promise (I am with Tahlia McGrath, she should most definitely be above her) but as of right now, she should be playing in both our ODI and Test sides this summer above Sutherland & McGrath. I personally feel Sutherland is currently overrated due to her potential as her output is nothing warranting national team selection as of yet.
 
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Teen Wolf

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She played WNCL and had the 2nd most wickets at an average of 22
And McGrath played 4 less matches due to national duty and only took 3 less wickets, at an average of 18.

The reality is neither come into best XI calculations. But McGrath is a much better fielder and clearer of the rope (evidenced by her knock of 29* off 11 balls in her only international game of the last 3, nearly 4, years), making her a more viable depth player to take on tour.

I personally feel Sutherland is currently overrated due to her potential as her output is nothing warranting national team selection as of yet.
Interesting that you quote WNCL stats like they mean something for one player, but you ignore Sutherland averaging 55 with the bat and 19 with the ball in the season preceding her call-up to the national team.
 

Scratchy05

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And McGrath played 4 less matches due to national duty and only took 3 less wickets, at an average of 18.

The reality is neither come into best XI calculations. But McGrath is a much better fielder and clearer of the rope (evidenced by her knock of 29* off 11 balls in her only international game of the last 3, nearly 4, years), making her a more viable depth player to take on tour.


Interesting that you quote WNCL stats like they mean something for one player, but you ignore Sutherland averaging 55 with the bat and 19 with the ball in the season preceding her call-up to the national team.
Check her numbers from this season. Garth, Carey, Perry, McGrath and maybe Graham are all currently better options. Lanning used Sutherland as a 7th choice bowler or so this season, proving she trust others (admittedly, Victoria is incredibly strong at full strength) above Sutherland, including Garth. Her WBBL numbers were nothing flash either being good with the bat and her bowling record was abysmal.

As I said, she shows a lot of promise and has immense potential as we saw in the 2019/20 WNCL season but as I said, currently as it stands, not the future, we have better options, Garth being one of them.
 

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Teen Wolf

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Check her numbers from this season. Garth, Carey, Perry, McGrath and maybe Graham are all currently better options. Lanning used Sutherland as a 7th choice bowler or so this season, proving she trust others (admittedly, Victoria is incredibly strong at full strength) above Sutherland, including Garth. Her WBBL numbers were nothing flash either being good with the bat and her bowling record was abysmal.

As I said, she shows a lot of promise and has immense potential as we saw in the 2019/20 WNCL season but as I said, currently as it stands, not the future, we have better options, Garth being one of them.
Another thing I've already explained. It's not a matter of Sutherland v Garth, or Sutherland v McGrath etc. Nor should it be.
 

Scratchy05

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Another thing I've already explained. It's not a matter of Sutherland v Garth, or Sutherland v McGrath etc. Nor should it be.
well it is when in discussion for the national team but one thing I must add is on reflection, Im not sure any of them are in our best 11 in any format. We are so deep and it is a sensational problem to have.
 

Teen Wolf

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well it is when in discussion for the national team but one thing I must add is on reflection, Im not sure any of them are in our best 11 in any format. We are so deep and it is a sensational problem to have.
Best XI doesn't mean the current best eleven players in the country though. It means picking a team that balances what's best for the team now vs what's best for the team in the future.

Hence there's always going to be the intent to pick one or two under ~21s even if they aren't quite ready. No better way to sustain longterm success. So older allrounders like McGrath/Graham/Johnson/Garth are competing with Carey for a spot, not Sutherland.
 

Scratchy05

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Best XI doesn't mean the current best eleven players in the country though. It means picking a team that balances what's best for the team now vs what's best for the team in the future.

Hence there's always going to be the intent to pick one or two under ~21s even if they aren't quite ready. No better way to sustain longterm success. So older allrounders like McGrath/Graham/Johnson/Garth are competing with Carey for a spot, not Sutherland.
You should always pick your best 11, regardless of age. The only reason we don't is because we are so far and away better than any nation.
 

Teen Wolf

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You should always pick your best 11, regardless of age. The only reason we don't is because we are so far and away better than any nation.
We do pick our best XI, you just don't know what that means.

And being better than other teams isn't a birth right or an accident. It happens by implementing sound longterm plans that are apparently too difficult for some people to understand.
 

konkani

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There was an article about cricket in Brazil recently on cricinfo. Would be awesome to see Brazil cricket teams at the world cup

 

Teen Wolf

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Ireland at T20 World Cup Qualifiers
2014: 3rd (behind Pakistan and Sri Lanka)
2016: 1st
2018: 2nd (behind Bangladesh)
2020: 3rd (behind Bangladesh and Thailand), failed to qualify
2023: 2nd (behind Scotland)... in the Europe qualifier

Who's overtaking them next. Afghanistan? Antarctica? An ancient tribe of Amazons? What a joke, albeit utterly deserved.

Bit of local-cricket-run-by-fu**-wits vibe about the way they've operated for a few years now--something I concluded back in 2018 when they were defending a score of 93 and waited until Australia were 0/60 before bringing their only true world class bowler into the attack (who then took a wicket with her fourth delivery).

It's not all doom and gloom though, I should think they have enough ranking points to at least get them through to the global qualifier tournament. And come November they get a chance to qualify for the World Cup in 50 over cricket... a format of the game they haven't played for three years, yes, but one of the teams standing in their way is Sri Lanka who haven't played any cricket for 17 months and counting.

---

South Africa tour of West Indies

T20Is
Wed, 1 Sep (4am AEST)
Fri, 3 Sep (4am AEST)
Sun, 5 Sep (8.30am AEST)

ODIs
Wed, 8 Sep (4.45 am AEST)
Sat, 11 Sep (12am AEST)
Tue, 14 Sep (12am AEST)
Fri, 17 Sep (12am AEST)
Mon, 20 Sep (12am AEST)

Times according to ICC website

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New Zealand tour of England

T20Is
Thu, 2 Sep (3.30am AEST)
Sun, 5 Sep (4am AEST)
Fri, 10 Sep (3.30am AEST)

ODIs
Thu, 16 Sep (10pm AEST)
Sun, 19 Sep (8pm AEST)
Tue, 21 Sep (10pm AEST)
Thu, 23 Sep (10pm AEST)
Sun, 26 Sep (8pm AEST)

Times according to ICC website
 

Teen Wolf

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Laura Wolvaardt (no. 3 on my 100 MVP list, in case you missed it) scored 33* off 9 balls this morn'... I'm still not getting why the Cricketboks continue to deprive her the opportunity to bat through 20 overs. Why have her open as an unprepared 19yo, but waste her down the order when she's hitting her stride as a 22yo, what is the long-term vision.

I don't know if there's an unwritten rule about cricket at the Commonwealth Games, but I've been getting a feeling next year will again be a case of Aus v RSA, Team Dynasty vs Team Destiny, with the chance of a similar result as '98 if the latter gets their batting line-up right.

The West Indies (currently without Jamaican queen Stafanie Taylor) are in the process of painting a worst case picture of how Barbados might fare at Birmingham 2022, as it so happens. 7 from there in today's XI, and the other 4 (Trinidadians etc) were the better players on the day who saved the 50-run loss from getting real ugly.
 

konkani

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100 MOST VALUABLE PLAYERS IN WOMEN'S CRICKET

Here's how I spent my weekend. Yes, it doesn't look like it should have taken so long, but I wanted to get it right. And now it is. 100% scientific factual accuracy. Scroll all the way down to the end for a colour-coded list if that's more to your liking.

100 Kim Garth (AUS) I can think of quite a few players well advanced in their pursuit of a national contract (such as Bridget Patterson, Georgia Redmayne and Maitlan Brown) but, of course, there’s always the option for Garth to return to Ireland and make a splash on the world stage that way.

99 Jahanara Alam (BAN) Yet to have the chance to bounce back from a fairly horrendous 2020 T20 World Cup.

98 Sheneta Grimmond (WI/GUY) Bringing raw talent to the table and not much else. Worth noting which nations the West Indies players come from, with only one to be represented at next year’s CommGames T20 tournament.

97 Grace Harris (AUS) Good opportunity to explain my criteria: Basically comes down to using what I’ve seen in the past to predict who will have the biggest impact on women’s cricket in the future which, to me, first and foremost means performance in the big international matches/series/tournaments. So even though Harris is a much better player than a lot of names on this list, her ranking here is largely affected by her slim (not non-existent, mind you) chance of getting back into the Australian team.

96 Fran Wilson (ENG)
Played a key T20 innings vs New Zealand in March which was, to date, her last game for England.

95 Lauren Down (NZL) Solid option to open the batting for the upcoming 50-over World Cup, potentially giving more freedom for Devine later in an innings.

94 Nida Dar (PAK)
Usually pretty tidy with the ball and tends to be the player saving the day (and/or averting disaster) with the bat.

93 Frances Mackay (NZL) Alternatively, New Zealand could leave Devine at the top of the order and give her all-round, albeit rather agricultural, relief via Mackay.

92 Tazmin Brits (RSA) Latecomer to cricket with excellent performances against Pakistan this year but otherwise not many runs on the board.

91 Katey Martin (NZL) Nearing the end of her career. Wouldn’t be on this list if not for a knack of lifting in games against Australia.




90 Heather Graham (AUS) The highest-ranked West Australian on the list. Bowling more suited to T20 cricket and batting more suited to the 50-over stuff, therefore always in the conversation for a national call-up and rarely getting it.

89 Lauren Winfield-Hill (ENG) Perhaps not posing a threat at the top of the ODI order as much of a potential nuisance.

88 Molly Strano (AUS) One positive from her WBBL|06 struggles: if it happened a season sooner, she probably would have lost the chance to play in a world cup on home soil.

87 Sneh Rana (IND) A lot of India’s selection decisions seem scatterbrained to me. Feels like they could just as quickly pivot back to somebody like Veda Krishnamurthy even though Rana’s shown a certain level of comfort at international level to make me question why she wasn’t persisted with five years ago (or given another chance sooner).

86 Chloe Tryon (RSA) Definitely falls into the that’s-just-the-way-she-plays category—i.e. would greatly benefit from some decent coaching.

85 Kate Cross (ENG) Dangerous seamer on the right pitch.

84 & 83 Tahlia McGrath (AUS) & Freya Davies (ENG) Mid-20s all-arounders haven’t done much wrong with their surprisingly limited opportunities.

82 & 81 Hayley Jensen (NZL) & Nicola Carey (AUS) Late-20s all-rounders starting to make a better fist of a surprisingly generous number of opportunities.




80 Nashra Sandhu (PAK)
Couldn’t decide between Bismah Maroof (currently on maternity leave) and Javeria Khan (three years older, doesn’t bowl). Ended up going with the erratic left-arm spinner for my last Pakistan pick. Thought about it again, moved a few things around, now she’s my second-last Pakistan pick.

79 Nigar Sultana (BAN) Scored an unbeaten 101 (both off about 130 balls) in two-out-of-three matches against a South African Emerging XI back in April, lining up with the small amount of top-level cricket I’ve seen her play.

78-76 Kavisha Dilhari (SL), Shabika Gajnabi (WI/GUY), Murshida Khatun (BAN) Bringing solid fundamentals to the table and not much else.

75-72 Kathryn Bryce (SCO), Belinda Vakarewa (AUS), Issy Wong (ENG), Tumi Sekhukhune (RSA) With the game’s general need for more young bowlers coming off the long run, women’s cricket would get a two-for-one boost if that also meant this assortment of Spice Girls all realising their full potential.

71 Amanda-Jade Wellington (AUS) Too easy for national selectors to overlook due to her fielding ability.




70 Omaima Sohail (PAK) Played a match-winning knock of 61 against the West Indies a few days ago—Pakistan’s first win of the tour (after seven attempts).

69-67 Ayabonga Khaka (RSA), Aliya Riaz (PAK), Punam Raut (IND) Quality role players over the journey, currently unclear futures.

66-62 Shakera Selman (WI/BAR), Rajeshwari Gayakwad (IND), Lea Tahuhu (NZL), Anya Shrubsole (ENG), Lizelle Lee (RSA) Quality role players over the journey who have encountered some unfavourable fortunes, but that old saying about making one’s own luck does spring to mind.

61 Amy Satterthwaite (NZL)




60-56 Jhulan Goswami (IND), Anisa Mohammed (WI/TT), Mithali Raj (IND), Rachael Haynes (AUS), Katherine Brunt (ENG)
Stalwarts who are probably six-to-twelve months away from retirement.

55 Courtney Webb (AUS) Potentially coming into a make-or-break summer. If she can back up her coming-of-age 2020/21 season and maybe even take it a step further, then it’s a wrap—she’ll be the first Tassie woman to play for her country since… Kim Fazackerley?

54 & 53 Arundhati Reddy (IND) & Jess Kerr (NZL) Not quite ready to be consistent performers for their country but worth investing games in them.

52 & 51 Hannah Darlington (AUS) & Rosemary Mair (NZL) Admittedly, some players never grow up and pull their head in. That said, what happens when youngsters notorious for a temperament beyond their years become not-so-young. Their level-headedness becomes a little less impressive, and their viability as international players ultimately still rests on the work they’ve done to address their weaknesses in the meantime.




50 & 49 Josie Dooley (AUS) & Richa Ghosh (IND) Given that wicket-keepers are kinda like rolls of toilet paper to me—I only pay attention to their presence when sh*t gets messy—picking the best up-and-comer is pretty straightforward.

48 Fatima Sana (PAK) Originally had her in that low-70s range but she backed up a four-wicket haul with her first Pfeiffer this morning to seal Pakistan’s second win on the trot.

47 & 46 Jemimah Rodrigues (IND) & Phoebe Litchfield (AUS) Some maturation required.

45-42 Poonam Yadav (IND), Sune Luus (RSA), Shikha Pandey (IND), Leigh Kasperek (NZL) Players who should be considered on the same level as the 31-41 rankings but, for the most part, aren’t.

41-31 Mignon du Preez (RSA), Danni Wyatt (ENG), Chamari Atapattu (SL), Harmanpreet Kaur (IND), Amy Jones (ENG), Dane van Niekerk (RSA), Sophie Devine (NZL), Megan Schutt (AUS), Deandra Dottin (WI/BAR), Tammy Beaumont (ENG), Alyssa Healy (AUS) Devastating players on their day who have really bad track records in high pressure moments and/or are just generally too inconsistent.




30 Ayeesha Naseem (PAK) The excitement of a teen Pakistani sensation bursting onto the scene is quickly accompanied by thoughts of the terrible and all-too-possible dangers of mismanagement that lie in wait.

29 Annabel Sutherland (AUS) As the technically correct crease-occupier, she could very well be on the way to cementing a key position in the Aussie line-up. But as a frontline bowler—the other part of the all-round puzzle for which some (including the great one herself) have likened Sutherland as Perry’s heir—forget about it, not a chance.

28-24 Maddy Villiers (ENG), Radha Yadav (IND), Nadine de Klerk (RSA), Deepti Sharma (IND), Sophia Dunkley (ENG) Reliable rising stars for whom the ceiling is the limit.

23 & 22 Tayla Vlaeminck (AUS) & Darcie Brown (AUS) The flipside to my comments about Sutherland’s value as a frontline bowler: it won’t be required of her anyway, as long as the Bendigo Bullet or the Kapunda Cannon is in service.

21 Shafali Verma (IND) Can’t hide her in the field, can’t erase the memory of a lot of awful-looking dismissals.




20 Hayley Matthews (WI/BAR)
The most disappointing player of the last 5 years.

19 Diana Baig (PAK) Not on the same level as those ranked 10-18 but, at 25yo and still making notable improvements, there’s a slight inkling she eventually can be.

18 Shabnim Ismail (RSA) Turning 33 in October, could’ve fooled me.

17 & 16 Suzie Bates (NZL) & Heather Knight (ENG) Unwriteoffable.

15 Meg Lanning (AUS) Players who can’t throw the ball but can throw their back out by sneezing… get a minimum five-place ranking penalty.

14-11 Marizanne Kapp (RSA), Ellyse Perry (AUS), Stafanie Taylor (WI/JAM), Nat Sciver (ENG) Tough to guess how many laps of the track each of these overworked thoroughbreds have left, so I’ve just arranged them by DOB.




10 Jess Jonassen (AUS) Though the maestro has had more than her fair share of injury battles, she makes this T20 left-arm orthodox gig look like a racket that could easily be milked for another ten years.

9 Sophie Ecclestone (ENG) England’s most useful tool.

8 Sophie Molineux (AUS) Despite running drinks throughout the team’s most recent tour, I’m still backing her in as a 33% chance (equal to the odds I’ve also prescribed for Mooney and Darlington) to be Australia’s next captain, which is just one of many reasons why I’m glad to see the Bairnsdale Bulldozer take on the job at the Renegades.

7 Sarah Glenn (ENG) England blew it in their last Test by not picking her.

6 Georgia Wareham (AUS) Australia blew it in their last Test by not picking her.

5 Amelia Kerr (NZL) The worst-coached young spinner going around, rarely given many favours in terms of the expectations placed on her as an all-rounder too. Both problems stemming from the fact that there’s not much she can’t do, which is the main metric I’ve used to arrange my rankings in this 4-9 range.

4 Ashleigh Gardner (AUS) Rather than a smooth diagonal line, her trajectory of improvement takes the form of an inconveniently structured staircase. Long flat spots interrupted with a sudden impossibly steep rise. Those major breakthroughs have been rare but timely, and they’ve manifested in green-and-gold which helps to distance her from the woeful magenta-coloured Gardner of the past three WBBL seasons.

3 Laura Wolvaardt (RSA) Yet to fully figure out her game in all conditions, curiously plays much better on low-and-slow pitches.

2 Smriti Mandhana (IND) Reserving the pointy end of this list for three willow-whackers is something I’d object to if we were talking about men’s cricket. Alas, limited overs rules the girls’ game and therefore so do the top-order players.

1 Beth Mooney (AUS) Though I’ve dedicated significant portions of my list to those who are likely to be the dominant players a decade from now, let it be known that the present is no less important. Plus, it’s a lot easier to predict the next 12 months than crystal balling the next 12 years. Thus, if I have to throw my money on any one player to have an impact in any given game, why not make it the world’s best run-compiler of the last little while. The fact that Mooney hasn’t done much in ODI cricket since the start of the 2019/20 season could be used against her, but she should clearly be opening the batting for Australia and I’m not going to penalise her for being undervalued by others.

View attachment 1181907

The number of listed players for each country are as follows...

25 - Australia
16 - England
15 - India
12 - New Zealand, South Africa
7 - Pakistan, West Indies
3 - Bangladesh
2 - Sri Lanka
1 - Scotland
f***king wonderful resource, thankyou!
 

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Teen Wolf

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On the topic of said 100 MVP list...
55 Courtney Webb (AUS) Potentially coming into a make-or-break summer. If she can back up her coming-of-age 2020/21 season and maybe even take it a step further, then it’s a wrap—she’ll be the first Tassie woman to play for her country since… Kim Fazackerley?
I was thinking of Kristen Beams the other day for other reasons, which reminded me she'd be the intermediate in this succession of Tasmanians (only moved to Victoria at around age 20, if memory serves).

----

Ouch.....

Mozambique have the right idea. Win the toss, send the other mob in, worst case scenario you at least get 20 overs of fielding practice.
 

konkani

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Haha I saw this on Offsiders this morning.

One of the best cricket books i read last year was 'Cricket 2.0: Inside the T20 Revolution'
It focuses on men's t20, but it gave me a vast overview of the implications of an extremely underrated (in australia) form of cricket.

That MVP list made me realise I would love to read more material on women's t20 and cricket.
 

Teen Wolf

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One of the best cricket books i read last year was 'Cricket 2.0: Inside the T20 Revolution'
It focuses on men's t20, but it gave me a vast overview of the implications of an extremely underrated (in australia) form of cricket.
That MVP list made me realise I would love to read more material on women's t20 and cricket.
Well the good news is I don't think you're alone there by a long shot, which is itself a rather new development. Even just using BigFooty as an example, the WBBL threads on here have grown from 5 pages per season to 30+ pages per season in the space of a few years.

Thanks in large part to the T20 format, the women's game is getting more and more exposure via TV and streaming, which will help generate more discussion and material, which in turn will generate even more exposure for the game, and so on. That's pretty obvious, but the speed it can develop is probably the surprising part.
 

Teen Wolf

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As intended when creating the OP, I will start a separate thread for the upcoming Aus v Ind series later today or tomorrow (unless somebody else wants to do it first), so that anything notable with these other games going on doesn't get lost in more extensive talk about the televised-on-Seven matches.
 

konkani

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Well the good news is I don't think you're alone there by a long shot, which is itself a rather new development. Even just using BigFooty as an example, the WBBL threads on here have grown from 5 pages per season to 30+ pages per season in the space of a few years.

Thanks in large part to the T20 format, the women's game is getting more and more exposure via TV and streaming, which will help generate more discussion and material, which in turn will generate even more exposure for the game, and so on. That's pretty obvious, but the speed it can develop is probably the surprising part.
that's good yeah. have always enjoyed the WBBL, i don't really have a regular team in either big bash, but i did (shamelessly?) jump on the brisbane heat bandwagon after their first win and was hoping for a threepeat.
 

Teen Wolf

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New Zealand puts on 67 from 9 overs for their last two wickets to still lose by 30 runs. They also took 5/13 off the last 16 balls of the first innings, so it was anything but the "ruthless" performance Heather Knight was hoping from her England team*, despite the comfortable win.

*Nor herself: The captain got out softly on 89 and tactically didn't look that interested in skittling NZ when persisting with the debutant Charlie Dean--a fairly bizarre selection choice to begin with, from what I've seen. Not helped by the fact that she wears sunglasses while bowling... at night!

---

South Africa (without two frontline pacers Kapp and Khaka) gave the West Indies every chance this morning, posting just 6/185 on an obviously slow pitch. But some of these players, you just want to clunk their heads together. At any level of cricket, name a bad team that is good at running between the wickets. Never happens, and WI are no exception.

The bright spot of the game was debutant Cherry-Ann Fraser (22yo from Guyana). An athletic build in the Hayley Matthews mould, bowling with decent speed off a shortish run-up, getting what looked like a bit of in-swing and bounce. Not exactly tidy with the bat but showed more intent at the crease in 12 balls than what Kycia Knight (in her 71st ODI) managed in her entire soul-destroying 15 off 46 knock.
 

Teen Wolf

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Well it was all happening this morning. Mignon du Preez run out on the last ball of South Africa's run chase, with scores level (WI won the super over). I suspect she made her ground but the footage was unclear, serving as a reminder that one can only hope (though certainly not expect) TV quality broadcasts become standard for all international matches of full ICC member teams in the near future.

Of course there are all kinds of complications and ramifications involved with that but, such is the increasing professionalism of women's cricket, livelihoods depend on correct umpiring decisions now just as they do in the men's game.

Take the mix-up in the Eng-NZ game hours earlier. Danni Wyatt, having been dropped from the ODI team again this year, gets recalled today for another (and very possibly her last) chance to cement a position. Then this happens:

Wyattrunout1.jpg


Note that Wyatt, who made her ground at the non-striker's end first, still inadvertently (she was walking off) has a toe behind the crease when Martin breaks the stumps. Because of that, and because of the TV coverage that can show us exactly what happened, she is not the player judged to be run out (despite what it looked like to everybody in real time).

She then goes on to make 63 not out and get Player of the Match in a 13-run win. Potentially career-altering stuff, and it surely happens more often than we realise, amazing.

Ok so the dog actually got the ball in that one which obviously makes it hard to beat. But the commentary in this latest edition (and the fact that it's halfway through a super over of an ODI) puts it up there:

 

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