Analysis Would the stand rule still have been introduced if Geelong had won the 2020 premiership?

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PhatBoy

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The flu and Dusty injury were a factor in 2018. But that’s footy. Happens all the time, Hawkins didn’t play in the 2019 prelim cause he got suspended. Maybe you would’ve won with him in, who knows.


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We wouldn’t have. For starters it was his own fault regardless and secondly Tim Kelly could only carry us so far. He was the reason we led that prelim
 

Anthony80

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But this not allowing them to be the best version of themselves, that only effected Richmond yeah?
I don't even know what you're on about here.
Like the team who was the second best in 2020 and clearly could play under the previous rule - they went backwards from leading a grand final at half time and got buttf***ed in a preliminary final after the rule came in: they weren’t impacted by it and WERE allowed to be the best version of themselves. Is that what you’re saying now?
This isn't about Geelong, it's about Richmond and the stand rule that was brought to hinder them. Now, I may of missed it, but do you think they bring in the pathetic looking stand rule if Geelong win it all in '20? I answered NO.
 

Sky

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We wouldn’t have. For starters it was his own fault regardless and secondly Tim Kelly could only carry us so far. He was the reason we led that prelim
I’m not so sure. He hasn’t done much for West Coast so more inclined to believe we made him look like an AA calibre player.
 

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Falcon3518

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We weren't even supposed to be there without Rance (for the whole season) in '19.
We beat Geelong in '19 even with Hawkins because of our system. Now, if the stand rule was around in '19 then I'd say Geelong win with or without Hawkins.

Yeah I still think we would’ve won. Just trying to point out that not everything is just an excuse. It is the reason sometimes.


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Falcon3518

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We wouldn’t have. For starters it was his own fault regardless and secondly Tim Kelly could only carry us so far. He was the reason we led that prelim

Yeah Kelly was really good, great trade for essentially swapping him with Cameron. Ballsy move. It won you the 2022 imo, Hawkins and Cameron just needed time to gel.


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PhatBoy

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I’m not so sure. He hasn’t done much for West Coast so more inclined to believe we made him look like an AA calibre player.


31 and 3 in a losing prelim final. Not sure it was his teammates doing the heavy lifting
 

Lunchlady Doris

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I don't think any of the rule changes were directly aimed at Richmond. I think it was more about playing styles and tactics that other clubs had already adopted (before or after Richmond did) or were quickly doing so. But I don't think you can argue that Richmond was more affected by the rule changes than any other club.

EG:
1/ 6:6:6 was designed to stop teams positioning behind the ball at the bounce. A tactic that many teams used but one that Richmond employed far more than any other club. Twice as often as their nearest rival from memory.

2/ The no prior opportunity ruck rule. This one was directly related to Richmond employing the use of non ruckman in the ruck, specifically Grigg. By not allowing the Ruck the option of possessing the ball rather than just tapping it, it negated much of the advantage of the taller player. So the rule change allows the ruckman to possess the ball and if immediately tackled, he is now deemed to have had no prior opportunity.

3/ The kicking out after a behind changes was aimed at reducing the forward press. Again a tactic employed by Richmond more than others but was being very rapidly incorporated into the tactics of most teams.

4/ The stand rule. Being discussed here.

I don't necessarily disagree with any of them. In fact I think the first 2 were good changes that have improved the game. The stand rule I don't really agree with but I can see what they were trying to achieve. It has been too strictly enforced and the penalty very severe IMO, but at the time it did appear to disadvantage clubs with Richmond's playing style and advantage teams with Geelong's. So one could argue that there was a perceived conflict of interest, even if it was no more than a perception.

1/ Love it, hate flooding and Richmond were indeed the worst at it.

2/ Not sure about this one. Seems to really go against the grain of speeding the game up.

3/ I like this one too.

4/ I really fail to see how this dramatically effects any game style. Cotchin shuffling 2m sideways, waving his arms and jumping up and down is hardly gamebreaking.
 

PhatBoy

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Why has he been so terrible at WC? He played a handful of decent games this year at best

When you’re alongside Joel Selwood and Patrick Dangerfield is it any surprise

If you’ve watched any of his footy at WC he hasn’t been terrible.

He hasn’t been kicking goals. That’s the only thing that’s really changed.
 

Sky

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If you’ve watched any of his footy at WC he hasn’t been terrible.

He hasn’t been kicking goals. That’s the only thing that’s really changed.
I’m sorry but compare Tim Kelly at Geelong to West Coast and he’s terrible. Top 5 finisher in a Brownlow once should be able to put the team on his shoulders mate
 

lewdogs

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It's one of the best rules they've brought in. I really don't get why people get so worked up about it.
 

PhatBoy

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I’m sorry but compare Tim Kelly at Geelong to West Coast and he’s terrible. Top 5 finisher in a Brownlow once should be able to put the team on his shoulders mate


No he shouldn’t.
In his first 34 games for them he was judged best on ground or second best on ground 8 times. Across both teams.

Not playing at ‘top 3 in the Brownlow’ standard every season doesn’t miraculously make a one-game performance a myth

They lost a game this year where he had 41 possessions, 2 goals, 9 clearances, 17 contested possessions, and 3 goal assists.

How the f*** is he supposed to carry them if he can do that and they STILL lose?
 

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Art Vandelay_

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The stand rule cost Hawthorn the 2022 premiership!!!
Think having a list with very little talent has more to do with that.
It's one of the best rules they've brought in. I really don't get why people get so worked up about it.
Good question, OP.... biaseddustyfan

Took away the Auskick for Adults hack it forward game plan that had dominated for the last 4 years.
Aesthetically it's mindnumbing watching talentless game styles.
 

Sky

Prince Pretty
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No he shouldn’t.
In his first 34 games for them he was judged best on ground or second best on ground 8 times. Across both teams.

Not playing at ‘top 3 in the Brownlow’ standard every season doesn’t miraculously make a one-game performance a myth

They lost a game this year where he had 41 possessions, 2 goals, 9 clearances, 17 contested possessions, and 3 goal assists.

How the f*** is he supposed to carry them if he can do that and they STILL lose?
Another Heppell, Ziebell calibre player on a decent chunk of money that he’s not up to delivering on. At least a player like Rory Sloane earned his.

I really like TK- his leaving gave us a premiership cause we got Cameron 😎
 

FreddyTwoShoes

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There is actually proof of someone jokingly saying what he would do well before that PF. You know the saying "behind every joke there is some truth"? Believe me, we got stitched up in '18.
This isn't the thread for it though, and I really don't want to derail this thread like you idiots did the Hardwick thread with comments about his, Rohan's and Phat Boy's scandalous affairs.

Show me where I derailed the Hardwick thread with comments about various scandalous affairs.
 

FreddyTwoShoes

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There is actually proof of someone jokingly saying what he would do well before that PF. You know the saying "behind every joke there is some truth"? Believe me, we got stitched up in '18.
This isn't the thread for it though, and I really don't want to derail this thread like you idiots did the Hardwick thread with comments about his, Rohan's and Phat Boy's scandalous affairs.

Actual proof you say? Very keen to see it.
 

Trahanas22

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Lot of excuses from Tigers fans
Not sure where they go if they have another meh season
Well, we will turn against Hardwick and hang crap on him on our forum like you did to Chris Scott for the past 10 years. Then, when he finally wins his fourth premiership, we will admit-on our forum again-that we were wrong about him and eat some humble pie.

Sounds familiar? I thought so...
 

Gavin Excell

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Well, we will turn against Hardwick and hang crap on him on our forum like you did to Chris Scott for the past 10 years. Then, when he finally wins his fourth premiership, we will admit-on our forum again-that we were wrong about him and eat some humble pie.

Sounds familiar? I thought so...
Ha ha true
Just on Hardwick do most Tiger fans back him in unreservedly?
 

Falcon3518

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I’m sorry but compare Tim Kelly at Geelong to West Coast and he’s terrible. Top 5 finisher in a Brownlow once should be able to put the team on his shoulders mate

I agree being at the Cats made him a better player. If Dusty went to North or GWS nobody would rate him as highly. Probably Ollie Wines/Neale level at best and below Danger for sure.


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Sky

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I agree being at the Cats made him a better player. If Dusty went to North or GWS nobody would rate him as highly. Probably Ollie Wines/Neale level at best and below Danger for sure.


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I think Lachie Neale is a better player than Ollie Wines but Ollie is a lot better than TK
 

Trahanas22

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Ha ha true
Just on Hardwick do most Tiger fans back him in unreservedly?
Hardwick is still very much respected on the Richmond forum. I think he will do a Leigh Matthews if he thinks that he doesn’t have it any more and will go on his own terms, without needing anyone to kick him unceremoniously out, like Clarkson.

Having said that, hopefully doing the Geelong thingy, preferring trades to draftees etc and turning Punt Rd into a nursing home, will work way quicker for us, so we won’t have to wait 11 years to do our own mea culpa...
 

Grin

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1/ Love it, hate flooding and Richmond were indeed the worst at it.

2/ Not sure about this one. Seems to really go against the grain of speeding the game up.

3/ I like this one too.

4/ I really fail to see how this dramatically effects any game style. Cotchin shuffling 2m sideways, waving his arms and jumping up and down is hardly gamebreaking.

I know it's an overly used phrase around here, but I actually feel dumber for having read your post.
Not only do your comments demonstrate an extraordinary lack of knowledge about the basics of AFL football, they completely miss the point.
 

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