Would W.A., be certainties to beat the BIG V in a theoretical state of origin match end of this year??

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Total_Juddshanks

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Most of the time Victoria are too strong.

However, in this instance you could have a 2 game series as a temporary event to make it more commercially viable or even a 3 game series depending on interest.

One in Perth, one in the MCG. That way people have the chance to see most of the best play the best as a spectacle and being two games enough money and interest could be raised in terms of ticket revenue to justify somebody getting behind it regarding organisation.

How would you organise it?


I guess the states would have to play for a cup or prize. Call it the Whitten cup after Ted Whitten for example. Chance for players to chance their legacy, compete at higher level outside of finals to help their competitive juices


So a state would be entitled to challenge the holders of the cup like an Americas's Cup who could not refuse a challenge.

So for example most of the time Victoria hold the cup because there player quantity and quality is too strong. Maybe no state challenges Victoria. Just say like now WA challenges Victoria to the Cup and Victoria could not refuse the challenge.

So states do not waste peoples time if a state makes a challenge and they are not competitive it comes at a cost, they would face a penalty, serious penalty to rule out trivial challenges based on market forces,

Just say South Australia do not bother chlallenging as not strong enough.

WA challenge, given current strength decide to challenge and win it. Next year Victoria challenge WA to win it back and whether successful or not they are competitive. This might continue for a few years assuming eventually Victoria wins it back and WA strength wanes, relatively speaking, eventually and the Cup competition might become dormant for a while until the next state is prepared to take the gamble and challenge Victoria again!!
There are a bunch of different theories about how to do it, I think the most manageable, minimalist one game a year option is just this.

Year 1- Victoria v Western Australia @ whichever state government puts up the most coin for the rights to host.

Year 2- Winner of year 1 v South Australia @ home venue of winner

Year 3- Winner of Year 2 v loser of Year 1@ home venue of winner.

Etc- so if a state keeps winning it keeps playing each year and the challengers rotate until someone knocks the winner off.

In terms of who would win I think it probably balances out if commitment levels are equal. Victoria is always going to have a bigger pool of elite midfielders to draw from, but SA and WA have the added advantage of a larger proportion of players drawn from the two clubs in that state, which means for a one off fixture they're going to be more experienced playing alongside each other.
 

Pykie

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Yeah that could be biased, Gawn is a gun and really would not be a weakness for Victoria although NN may have the edge in the tap.

Gawn to Bont. versus NN to Fyfe/Cripps would be interesting.

Historically Victoria look weak in the backline and forward line. Danger could even play back or forward in a rep game, Bont as well.

Using technicalities to claim Hawkins who is NSW shows how desperate they would be!!
I like WAs prospective mix of older and new small forwards, with Walters and Cripps, Ryan and Cameron.
Victoria has a better forward line

Ablett, Cameron, Martin, Greene, Lynch (whoever else you want) and De Goey is nuts.

Roll Gray, Parker and Boak through half forward for good measure.
 

Corkintheocean

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I've come to the conclusion that SOO would work if the following cunning ploy was adopted.

1. Play the series during one of the 24 weeks of the year when no other football is played.

2. Pay the players really really seriously good money.

That's it honestly. For all the arguments about lack of interest and concerns over being injured, money talks, and if the price is right you will get the likes of Fyfe, Dangerfield and co willing to rock up.

What is needed is buy in from the AFL and a long term sponsor willing to come on board.

In terms of arguments over injuries honestly I think this is massively overplayed- if you do it during the JLT and offered good $$ most stars would have played at least one warm up game anyway, so you are just substituting the risk of injury in that game for the risk of injury in SOO. In the unlikely event of a LTI, just offer the club salary cap relief equal to that player's salary so they can hit up the free agency market.

Honestly it's become a nothing argument. It would be really easy to implement a long term successful SOO series, all that is needed is $$ and some leadership from the AFL.
Agreed. Let the playerd take the gate and a % of TV contract negotiated. Would genuinely be upwards of a million bucks to get a jumper in the game. Players aren't saying no to that.
 

Mr Magic

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Victoria has a better forward line

Ablett, Cameron, Martin, Greene, Lynch (whoever else you want) and De Goey is nuts.

Roll Gray, Parker and Boak through half forward for good measure.
WA has the better forward line.

Its not like Victoria are rolling around with Ablett snr, Lockett and Dunstall even though Dunstall was a queenslander!!!
 

Total_Juddshanks

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Agreed. Let the playerd take the gate and a % of TV contract negotiated. Would genuinely be upwards of a million bucks to get a jumper in the game. Players aren't saying no to that.
I reckon even something like 60k for losers and 120k for winners (so a total prize pool of ~4mil) would get any player in the league on the park, that's the equivalent of upwards of 10 percent of a superstar's yearly wage for rocking up and winning one game.
 

Topkent

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It would be great, NRL SoO is amazing. So much passion there. If you don't think WA, SA and VIC could get the same home state parochialism, you're wrong. You only need to look at WA with it's sports teams in AFL, NBL, BBL, etc. They love it, and so do we.

2 things the AFL would need for it to succeed

1. An appropriate time of year so that both players and clubs buy into it.

2. The contest to be genuinely hard fought.

Fan engagement will come, people say they don't care but that's because the AFL players/clubs don't.

If WA was playing VIC (+ other states as example) in a match that actually meant something and players were having a genuine crack and pride in the jumper I would absolutely passionately support the Big V.
Also if us Vics don't get behind it I could guarantee us vs WA at Optus or us vs SA and the Adelaide oval would be sell outs.

Should be a 3 team SOO that rotates the loser out every year.

Same thing for NSW Queensland and Tassie
 

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Topkent

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SoO works for the NRL because the NRL competition is so suburban. It would never work in the AFL because (a) the AFL competition is strong (b) SoO would effectively exclude players not from Vic, SA, and WA, (c) AFL Club supporters would not tolerate players from their teams being injured in a SoO competition
Are you 15? SOO only started in the NRL because they took it from us
 

juss

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Also if us Vics don't get behind it I could guarantee us vs WA at Optus or us vs SA and the Adelaide oval would be sell outs.

Should be a 3 team SOO that rotates the loser out every year.

Same thing for NSW Queensland and Tassie
I think it might take some time, but as mentioned if there is genuine commitment then the fans will come.

VIC loves AFL. WA ans SA are footy mad states too. Melbourne is a sport city, sport dominates the year. Players and clubs commit and the fans would come, but there's a lot to happen for it to get to that point which is the challenge.
 

Carringbush2010

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Most of the time Victoria are too strong.

However, in this instance you could have a 2 game series as a temporary event to make it more commercially viable or even a 3 game series depending on interest.

One in Perth, one in the MCG. That way people have the chance to see most of the best play the best as a spectacle and being two games enough money and interest could be raised in terms of ticket revenue to justify somebody getting behind it regarding organisation.

How would you organise it?


I guess the states would have to play for a cup or prize. Call it the Whitten cup after Ted Whitten for example. Chance for players to chance their legacy, compete at higher level outside of finals to help their competitive juices


So a state would be entitled to challenge the holders of the cup like an Americas's Cup who could not refuse a challenge.

So for example most of the time Victoria hold the cup because there player quantity and quality is too strong. Maybe no state challenges Victoria. Just say like now WA challenges Victoria to the Cup and Victoria could not refuse the challenge.

So states do not waste peoples time if a state makes a challenge and they are not competitive it comes at a cost, they would face a penalty, serious penalty to rule out trivial challenges based on market forces,

Just say South Australia do not bother chlallenging as not strong enough.

WA challenge, given current strength decide to challenge and win it. Next year Victoria challenge WA to win it back and whether successful or not they are competitive. This might continue for a few years assuming eventually Victoria wins it back and WA strength wanes, relatively speaking, eventually and the Cup competition might become dormant for a while until the next state is prepared to take the gamble and challenge Victoria again!!
But what's the prize apart from bragging rights? I mean that's all good and well and sounds all romantic but it's not practical. I'm not having a go at you by the way I'm merely making an observation.

Why is the NRL soo so successful? Because it is THE biggest competition in rugby league as far as the fan is concerned, the only time the rest of the country hears about nrl is when soo comes around. Personally I don't take notice if there's any prize money etc. for the nrl soo, in any case the nrl competition is merely a gap fill distant second to soo.

In Australian Football the AFL premiership is THE biggest competition in Australian football as far as the fan is concerned, and the clubs and players are fully invested because there's tangible rewards. The soo never afforded that and even before the semi professional era of the early 80's onwards clubs frowned at giving up their star cattle to risk injury in the name of bragging rights. The premiership has always been the mountain to climb.

On top of that, you've pointed out the possible disparity of the Vic team being too strong for the majority of the time (only by quantity certainly not by quality!). If that is the case then there's another competition killer.

Until the fan on the street views the premiership as 2nd rate behind soo like the nrl fans do it will never get off the ground.
 

Pykie

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WA has the better forward line.

Its not like Victoria are rolling around with Ablett snr, Lockett and Dunstall even though Dunstall was a queenslander!!!
No, just 3 brownlows and likely to be this years Coleman winner w/ De Goey, Greene & Gray......
 
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Topkent

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What’s your point? I am old enough to remember the great SoO games between Vic and WA but that was before the competition went national and before it was truly professional. It will never work again
You said and I qoute "it would never work"

Well it worked successfully for 40 off years
 

Mr Magic

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No, just 3 brownlows and likely to be this years Coleman winner w/ De Goey, Greene & Gray......

What has brownlows got to do with best forwards???

Did Ablett snr win a brownlow?? Anyone with a brain knows who the better Ablett is let alone forward and he did not win a brownlow!!

Pumping up the Vic forwards is the moment are laughable, good players but hardly superstars in their prime!!
 

Pykie

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What has brownlows got to do with best forwards???

Did Ablett snr win a brownlow?? Anyone with a brain knows who the better Ablett is let alone forward and he did not win a brownlow!!

Pumping up the Vic forwards is the moment are laughable, good players but hardly superstars in their prime!!
What the fu** are you talking about?

The games changed just a little bit from the early 90's....

Gary Ablett Jnr despite being 35 is averaging 20 touches and 2 goals a game. He will be the AA half forward.

Dustin Martin is 28, in his prime.
Robbie Gray is 31, a 4 x AA HFF, arguably in his prime.
Jeremy Cameron is 26 years old and will be the Coleman Medalist.
Jordan De Goey is 23 and is averaging similar goals per game to Darling..
Toby Greene is 25, who's produced around 3 seasons to date on par with Walters' this year.
Tom Lynch is probably the weakest link of that forward line and despite having a ******* year is still averaging around the same goals per game as Kennedy. Throw Danniher in there if he is fit...

My point is Victoria has the luxury of being able to play gun one-on-one players like Martin and Ablett forward because of their midfield depth.

If you discount the likes of Ablett, you have to do the same to Franklin....

Are you seriously arguing Dustin Martin, Gary Ablett Jnr, Jeremy Cameron and Jordan De Goey aren't superstars of the game?
 

Mr Magic

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What the fu** are you talking about?

The games changed just a little bit from the early 90's....

Gary Ablett Jnr despite being 35 is averaging 20 touches and 2 goals a game. He will be the AA half forward.

Dustin Martin is 28, in his prime.
Robbie Gray is 31, a 4 x AA HFF, arguably in his prime.
Jeremy Cameron is 26 years old and will be the Coleman Medalist.
Jordan De Goey is 23 and is averaging similar goals per game to Darling..
Lynch is probably the weakest link of that forward line and despite having a ******* year is still averaging almost the same goals per game as Kennedy. Throw Danniher in there if he is fit...

My point is Victoria has the luxury of being able to play gun one-on-one players like Martin and Ablett forward because of their midfield depth.

Are you seriously arguing Dustin Martin, Gary Ablett Jnr, Jeremy Cameron and Jordan De Goey aren't superstars of the game?

Gary Ablett jnr is 35, Cameron, is still finding his feet, De Goey has some zip and is a burst player/leading forward and hardly takes a speckie, Daniher can't kick straight!!!, Gray is past his prime. Most can be defender\d/and or tagged out of it
 

Pykie

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Gary Ablett jnr is 35, Cameron, is still finding his feet, De Goey has some zip and is a burst player/leading forward and hardly takes a speckie, Daniher can't kick straight!!!, Gray is past his prime. Most can be defender\d/and or tagged out of it
So your trolling essentially?
 

Guardian Hawk

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Gary Ablett jnr is 35, Cameron, is still finding his feet, De Goey has some zip and is a burst player/leading forward and hardly takes a speckie, Daniher can't kick straight!!!, Gray is past his prime. Most can be defender\d/and or tagged out of it
I was with you initially but your posting in this thread ha turned and turned badly.

Cameron is still "finding his feet" despite easily leading the Coleman and being #1 in the comp for marks inside 50, score involvements, etc.
Meanwhile, you have Hogan as WA's CHF who has kicked 13 goals for the year.

You question GAJ and De Goey's credentials as forward pockets (can be tagged, don't take species?, etc) but you have Cripps in WA's pocket who isn't half the player (De Goey kicked 48 goals last year as a 21/22 y.o, Cripps is 27 and has never kicked 40).

You then say than the WA team has no weaknesses (except maybe Franklin?) even though you have players like O'Meara, Jetta, Stack, Jack Martin, Hogan, Swallow, etc - most if not all of whom would not get a look in a Victorian second side.

That's not even mentioning how many injured players you have included for a game "this year" because the depth is weak.
 
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