YOUR FINAL EIGHT-2001

[Dan26]

Arch,

You reckon the Hawks are going to be the next power side.

I dunno. You "could" be right, but personally (and it's just an opinion) I disagree.

Hawthron lack class around the edges. They have some good key position players, but their on-ballers, and runners are at the lower end of the scale. They make a ot of unnecessary turnovers and errors in the midfield.

I've been saying it for about 5 years now. Hawthorn lack class. They have tremendous heart, but they lack skill. If they had just one more top-line midfielder, things could be different. It could be that one small thing that could tip them over thwe edge. But as it currently stands, they are just not good enough.

 

[Grendel]

"We have ALWAYS seemed to stand for either skill, flair, or aggression."

How does that explain the 30's and the 70's??

Youve had your share of bad times same as all of us. The turn of the century 00's werent to flash for you lot either. Thats thirty years of not much at all. Be like me and be grateful to be born into an era where your dominant. How many of these Maggies fans would give up the Comp,tv,video to be able to go back and live in the 20's and the time of Coventry etc, be interesting to find out.

 

[Dan26]

Grendel,

Even back in the 1890's in the VFA, Essendon have always seemed to stand for eiter skill, flair, or aggression.

Hey, even we can't make the fials every year. But these three qualities don't necessarily mean you are going to be sucessful. At any one time, we might only have one of these qualities. In 1985, for instance, we had all 3 (like in 2000)

We've never been regarded as a working class team, and we havw always played with genuine skill. Perhaps the aggression was lacking in the 70's, but we have always "seemed" to exhibit at least one of these 3 characteristics at any given time.

 

[Dan26]

Grendel,

Considering we won the flag in 1897, played in the Grand Final in 1898, and made the finals in 1899 and 1900, I would say the turn of the century wasn't that bad for us.

We also won the premiership 1901, made the Grand Final (lost to Colingwood) in 1902, and made the finals in 1904,1905 and 1906. We made the 1908 Grand Final (lost to Carlton) and won back-to-back premierships in 1911 and 1912

So, I would say the turn of the century was pretty good for us, actually. Just like the turn of this century

We have only had one "bad" era and that was the 1930's. Even the disappointing 1970's had finals appearances in 1972-73 and 79.

 

[Grendel]

A 'bad era' is still a bad era. Therefore you cant say 'always displayed' and have the true context of the words therein.

ps hope you realise this is a stir

Cheers

 

[Dan26]

I'm glad you told me it was a stir, or we could have kept going for a LONG time. Phew.

 

[Pessimistic]

On Essendon:

One great season without significant injuries, after 3-4 very poor ones.

Was it luck ? Will the 'curse' return next year (like Carlton in 1996) or have they discovered the 'secrets' to man management.

On Hawthorn. Took the most marks of any team in 2000. Someone said if we had one more good midfielder we would be good - How about a fit and firing Shane Crawford.
I thought our downside is a lsck of size in the midfield - But Chick is the New Riccuto (why Isn't Chick in Ireland ?)

But I reckon even if we don't improve much the more even draw will have us in the top four rather than eigth position.

 

[TigerTank]

Hawthorn won't improve until they do something about their defensive half.
The best that can be said for Hawthorn's defence is that it is honest, but given that most teams now use their defense as a springboard for attack, Hawthorn look very old-fashioned.
Hawthorn's marking strength will ensure they win at least as many games as they lose, but a good running team will beat them most times.
This problem is compounded by the fact that Hawthorn have no good defensive midfielders, with the possible exception of Woods (who is on the slow side). That makes them extremely vulnerable to any team that is beating them in the ruck. Rehn's importance cannot be overstated.
Expect Hawthorn to finish no lower than 10th but no higher than 6th.

 

[NICK THE PIE MAN]

Hey Guys,
my pick...

Essendon-excellent side
Melbourne-Form side
Brisbane-unlucky last year,excellent in 1999
Carlton-Looked dangerous last year
Richmond-shitty luck lately, good side though
Hawthorn- up and coming team
Geelong-under-rated last year, should improve
St Kilda-excellend recruiting, should improve

 

[TigerTank]

Nick the Pie Man,

Richmond's draw in 2001 is so utterly appalling that they could continue to improve and still miss the final eight.

The one thing 2000 proved was that, with discipline, leadership and an effective game-plan, Richmond's list is good enough to absorb injuries to important players and still be competitive.

The question mark at Punt Road isn't the quality of the list, it's whether the players can maintain the focus and discipline shown through much of 2000. Onfield leaders are required to stand up to overcome the tough draw.

With Collingwood it is different. There is at least 18 months of "list development" required at Collingwood before they will be able to match the better teams with anything other than enthusiastic spurts.

List development requires senior players to act as mentors, which is why I am puzzled by the decision to trade Paul Williams. The way I see it, Collingwood has only two genuine leaders (Scott Burns being the other) left. I think that the Williams decision could set back Collingwood's development by at least 12 months.

Good luck ... you're going to need plenty of it.

 

[Rebecca_06]

Top 8 2001

#1 Essendon
#2 Brisbane
#3 Melbourne
#4 Carlton
#5 Sydney
#6 St.Kilda
#7 Western Bulldogs
#8 Hawthorn

Grand Final: Essendon Vs Brisbane
2001 Premiers: Brisbane Lions

 

[Visro]

My final 16

Essendon
Melbourne
Hawthorn
Brisbane
Sydney
Richmond
Kangaroos
Fremantle

Carlton
Geelong
Westcoast
Bulldogs
St Kilda
Port Adelaide
Collingwood
Adelaide

[This message has been edited by Visro (edited 10 October 2000).]

 

[goatmaster]

How quickly people forget .
Dan - 1997,1998 Essendon were regarded as an underachiever with a weak midfield. The Hawks weakness has been the midfield without doubt but I think that will come good because-
Chick- only went into midfield permanently in round 16 late & Hawthorn won 6 of 9 from that point(losses to Carlton, Essendon & Roos).
Crawford- will come good again
Joel Smith - he's still a risk but he could improve
Future star tip from the goatmaster- Lance Piccioane mark it down if they give this kid
a chance to play permanently he will be very, very good. Brett Johnson will also improve next year.

 

[Bernie]

If the Saints don't top 4 in 2001, there should be some serious examination of salaries and performance. They seem to have gone a little short in defence but with a coach like Blight, I'm sure he's got it figured. The player morale there must be sky high.

Swans must have a better year with Kelly back. They still lack a franchise player - I'm surprised that they haven't gone harder at out of contract players.

The Lions looked well short of the mark last season as, with the Swans, CANNOT win a Vic. based final and so must get a home based Prelim. Final. Too many young players.

The only team to really take it up to the Bombers at the G are the Blues - the Roos are shell shocked in that company.

The Bomber management have done well to keep the squad together and happy, and it's the other coaches' challange to knock them off. Blight and Eade ( and Wallace ) are up to it - I don't think the others are.

 

[S.Robbo]

Here's what I reckon:

ESSENDON - Class above anything else. Would have to endure dire injury toll to come back to field.
MELBOURNE - Good young unit. Missed a few promising youngsters during finals (Wheatley, Whelan) and will be hungry.
BRISBANE - Abundance of talent. Mal Micheal might just fill the plug up back. Have Keating to get back as well.
KANGAROOS - Not prepared to right off the old firm. Colbert will be better for the year under his belt.
CARLTON - Were Essendon's main threat before Kouta went down. Loss of Hamill will hurt as will lack of list refreshing.
HAWTHORN - Youngsters will only be better for this years experience. Need to be cleaner in the middle. Watch Croad, Thompson and Hay step up another notch.
RICHMOND - Frawley has moulded them well, different from previous years. Have bookends in Richo and Kellaway to return. Performed well under duress this year.
ST KILDA - big call, but surely have to improve significantly, given their drastic recruiting binge. Gehrig, Hamill and Everitt up forward is scary, release Hall down to C.H.B, with Huxgdton at F.B and your've got a qulaity base to work with. Let's not forget who's coaching them as well.

Those who will miss out:

Geelong - won't miss by much. Recruited well. White fills the gap at C.H.F, whilst Murphy is a great pick up on a wing. Are still a couple of key positions short though.

Sydney - Good running side, but lack goal scoring options. Goodes and O'Loughlin can't do it all.

West Bulldogs - Well coached yet list is too outdated. Can't succeed with Libba and Romero as key onballers. Losing Wynd will rob them of Darcy up forward.

The rest have no hope.

 

[colley31]

My top 16

Essendon
Carlton
Kangaroos
Hawthorn
Sydney
Geelong
Brisbane
Melbourne

Richmond
Western Bulldogs
Fremantle
St Kilda
Collingwood
Adelaide
West Coast
Port Power

 

[Arch]

well about 50 million responses get posted b4 i get a chance to respond.

I maybe overrating the hawks for 2001, but what I mean is that sometime within the next 4 years they will be a top 2 side (in my opinion). Its interesting how people say they lack class, they make too many errors, and need better players in the m/field and defense.
teams that go from being average to being super will inevitably have a group of no-names who step up to the next level, and actually become well known elite class players (not just amongst there own teams fans)- and its not a totally scientific theory on Hawthorn just more of a hunch.

I remember last years predictions on the top 8. Many people on this site tipped St Kilda to finish top 4, and the dees to finish LAST.

We'll all inevitably make gooses of ourselves with our predictions anyway.....

A.

 

[Dan26]

Goatmaster,

Yes, Essendon underachieved in 1997-98

But that's the point. Hawthorn did not underachieve in 2000. They finished about where they should. Arguably, they overachieved. In 1997-98, you always felt that Essendon should do beter (and we did in 1999-2000)

The players you have mentioned have all been with the Hawks for a while now. They desperately need a new midfielder to come good if they are going to mix it with Essendon.

As an Essendon supporter, the one team who I just KNOW we are going to beat every year is the Hawks. I am super confident whenever we play them. Sorry to sound arrogant, but I feel really confident against the Hawkers

Bernie,

Melbourne also take it up to us. Forget the Grand Final for a moment. That was just one match. The Dees have a midfield, which is capable of matching and beating ours, and they are a definate chance to kncok us off. Carlton have rarely troubled us in recent years at the MCG. We have won 7 of our last 8 against them, with the only loss being by a point when we had 9 more scoring shots.

The teams most likely to beat us are the teams which can control the midfield and take it up to us. I know the Bulldogs had some succes with flooding but closer examination shows that might have even failed. Despite the flooding in Round 21, the Doggies were still 22 points down half way through the last quarter. The fact they kicked the last 5 goals had nothing to do with flooding.

The teams that had the most success against us in 2000 were Melbourne (Round 9), Fremantle (in Round 3), Carlton in Round 20, Sydney in round 14.

All these team took it up to us in the midfield, and were prepared to take us on. They also managed to make it a bit of a scrap. Especially Sydney and Carlton. Melbourne run and run and run, so it wasn't so much of a scrap with them.

Hawthorn just don't play this way, and won't threaten Essendon

 

[Richmondfan#1]

Top 8 -

1. Essendon
2. Melbourne
3. Carlton
4. Brisbane
5. Sydney
6. Roos
7. Bulldogs
8th spot to be battled between Richmond, Hawthorn and Geelong.

Close behind (probably 9th) are Saint Kilda, Eagles or the Dockers (no kiddin').

 

[sabre_ac]

Rooboy Waiting on your reply

Anyway here is my top 8

Essendon
Melbourne
Brisban
Carlton
Hawthorne
Geelong
Kangaroos
Fremantle

Bottom 2
Adelaide
Collingwood

 

[Rooboy 96]

You are on Sabre-ac... please try to remember I work shift work and don't play on the pc at night.... my email is rooboy96@rooboys.com... Sabre-ac what did you think of Carey's 7 second half goals this year.... but don't forget he is over the hill next year... you guys only hope...

CAREY IS KING... LONG LIVE THE KING

 

[S.Robbo]

How can any of you people seriously think that Freo will make the 8 next year. You all need your heads read.

 

[Pessimistic]

Dan24, You said Hawks lack class and get by on heart but someone else said they were 'soft' at the ball so who's right (I know , you are always right) Someone else said the midfielders were poor defensively but why then did Ken judge bas the entire game around that (I think they were top for hard ball gets in '99, but changed style under Peter Schwab)

Perhaps we should look at in terms of the 'wood' I feel Hawthorn can beat anybody now, and soem consistently) Th exceptions to this seem to be Carlton and Essendon, who came second and first in the 'minor' round last year.

Essendon seem to be the benchmark and, unlike you Dan, I think Hawthorn has played some good footy against Essendon for significant periods. I take heart from this.

You stated that you are always confident of beating Hawthorn - more than freo or power ? Perhaps Essendon is currently winning games mainly on turnovers and Hawks certainly gave a few of these in recent meetings.

But don't be so confident - You would need to find someone to handle Thompson before being that smug. In contrast Hay has Lloyd's measure.

Carlton? I smell discord there - perhaps not a threat in 2001

St Kilda ? How long will they take to 'gel' together ? Even if they then become a threat will it be too late.

I expect a Humdinger when Saints play Hawthorn. It seems to be folklore that the Hawks 'record' turnaround was the beginning of the end for the saints (although the 'boarding house pudding' quote came a week earlier.
Blighty has a habit of wanting to make big statements and he might see beating hawthorn as one of those.

 

[sabre_ac]

Rooboy

That game was shocking and another game added to the long list of dismal perfomances by the dockers

My only excuse is our premire (only backman) wasn't playing, and Parker is widely touted as one of the best in the league.

On to next year though,well like i said before thankyou for bell, he hasn't reached his peak yet only being 24, so i sure he can reck havoc.
Cook still can improve enormously and its only a matter of time before haselby becomes the best midfield in the league

Throw in Pavlich at center half forward,mods at full forward and the wilderbeast (clive) a constant danger.
Your going to have your hands full

I believe if it was a home game will would certainly win but the fact its you home game its 50 50.

Superior midfield and forward line on our part is the difference

Backline needs work though

 

[Rooboy 96]

sorry it took so long for me to respond...

but I suffered concusion when I fell off my seat laughing.... at you...

see you next year boy....