Your thoughts on Van Nguyen

[scout]

In less than twelve hours Van Nguyen will be dead. Very harsh penalty for his mistake.

In the city the other day, saw his friends and their campaign with the messages they’d gathered from all round. This humanized the situation; there were his friends going all out to save him. His mother lives in your average Melbourne suburb.

His life involves a whole lot more than just one stupid attempt at drug smuggling. The death penalty not only punishes him for that attempt, but also ends everything else in his life and adversely affects many people around him.

Been hoping for the unlikely reprieve for Van Nguyen.

 

[mantis]

I think it's a shame he is going to die, BUT, I am sick to death of aussies taking the risks of smuggling drugs & then other aussies saying how unfair their treatment is in these barbaric countries & slagging the people & rules of those countries.

FFS fellow aussies, you don't want to rot in a foreign jail, or get executed, here's a tip, stop smuggling drugs, or using them in countries with zero tolerance.

 

[froars]

Have to feel sorry for his brother – what kind of life will he have from now? This has destroyed two lives, as well as the mother, family and friends. I hope they all find some kind of inner peace somehow.

I don’t feel sorry for Van Nguyen but never wanted to see it come to this. His actions, if he had have been successful, could have destroyed many more lives as a result.

Still, he and his brother are victims of state government policy of allowing gambling in this state to get totally out of control. They target the vulnerable and when they get desperate this is just one consequence. Doubt we’ll ever see them put their hands up to claim some kind of responsibility.

Feeling quite morose at the moment – memories of Barlow and Chambers. Same feelings. Same sense of waste and anger that the blokes at the top of the chain are probably sleeping like babies at the moment.

 

[demon_dave]

Singarore's laws are based on 'deterrent'. And I guess a number of people thinking of importing drugs via Singapore or Indonesia will think again.

My concern is that had the Heroin hit the streets here would it have caused deaths? If so then isn't trafficking efective murder, even mass murder?

To me, that's the difference between the Corby case. Her drug can't be seen as being a killer.

The point is the death penalty in this case is just plain wrong and hypocritical of the Singaporean government. The Singapore government deals with Burma in business and trade, because of this they deal directly with drug czar's in Burma, more than likely the suppliers of Van Nguyens heroin. There's is a barbaric and borderline fascist state who are obviously killing the wrong people just to appease thirsty natives who just want blood.

 

[mantis]

The point is the death penalty in this case is just plain wrong and hypocritical of the Singaporean government. The Singapore government deals with Burma in business and trade, because of this they deal directly with drug czar's in Burma, more than likely the suppliers of Van Nguyens heroin. There's is a barbaric and borderline fascist state who are obviously killing the wrong people just to appease thirsty natives who just want blood.[/QUOTE]

If people stopped taking the risk of smuggling drugs, then the big wigs would not be able to sell them.

Once again you are attacking the country with zero tolerance & laws to try & stamp it out. The last part of your sentence is totally abhorrent.

If Nguyen hadn't have been caught, do you understand that some young australians might have lost their lives from the drugs he was carrying?

 

[Clark Kent]

Sorry, Sandie,

I just see this as a real shame. Yes, I understand the concept Singapore law being upheld, but feel that this young man could be rehabilitated, eventually, after some many years incarceration.

Instead, his death later this morning is an ultimately futile attempt by this government to discourage others. Perhaps I'm wrong here, but I'd like to see some evidence that capital punishment acts as a true deterrent. If I could see it was, then perhaps I could see the sense in it.

 

[mantis]

Sorry, Sandie,

I just see this as a real shame. Yes, I understand the concept Singapore law being upheld, but feel that this young man could be rehabilitated, eventually, after some many years incarceration.

Instead, his death later this morning is an ultimately futile attempt by this government to discourage others. Perhaps I'm wrong here, but I'd like to see some evidence that capital punishment acts as a true deterrent. If I could see it was, then perhaps I could see the sense in it.

Clark, I agree, I am against the death penalty, but when are people going to wake up & stop taking the risk? Maybe the death penalty isn't a deterrent, but surely all these people coming out & saying, hey what he was doing wasn't that bad, just a few years in jail, is sending the wrong message to would be mules. I am hoping like hell, that Nguyen's death won't be in vain, that no other aussie kids will take the risk.

 

[spell_check]

Van Nguyen should have pretended he was a Buddhist... or a Muslim.

 

[belfast_bomber]

Van Nguyen should have pretended he was a Buddhist... or a Muslim.

or worn a pair of fake boobies

 

[Druid]

drug smugglers deserve the death penalty

 

[campbell]

I think because it mandatory as well. No trial what so ever.Intransit is just plain worng.

The cruelty of not letting a mother hug her dying child, is hauntingly chilling of the regime in Singapore.Why is the mother punished.A disgusting thing.


Also how about some privacy, all we see on the news is the poor family,going in and out of that jail.As a mother I feel for them I feel the media has been so intrusive of their needs as well.This poor woman, her face is plastered in all hte papers at a time which is the worst she will ever experience.

No compassion for the family by anyone, what in hecks name did that Mother do.
Its just plain awful.

I am going to Europe next year, I will not fly Qantas or Singapore or fly through their.

A trial should be mandatory, not a mandatory sentence in a corrupt country.Amazing.

Imagine if it was a friend or relative of yours in this situation.

Imagine if you were that mother.

 

[Half Back Flanker]

I started out thinking a little bit of it’s Singapore and we have to accept there decision, but as this got closer my opinion changed, and I think the practice of state sponsored murder is barbarous and right now I am in a feeling of great sadness for someone I never met, and it’s for more than an individual too, its for everybody and family and friend who has ever been through this.

I don’t usually view the world in black and white, but, THIS IS WRONG.

 

[Rave Slave]

Singapore are pathetic for taking the victim stance in this whole situation.

FFS he was stopping over on his way to bringing the drugs to Australia. It was Australia that would've been affected so let him be punished under Australian law.

Absolute disgrace, the whole BS about drugs having a huge impact blah blah blah.

It's not as though people are forced to take drugs, the only victims of drugs I feel sorry for are babies born to addicts. Everyone else had the choice to do (or not do) drugs.

Singapore you are an absolute disgrace.

RIP Van

 

[Stig O'Hara]

Well what have we learned from all this?

Don't traffic drugs in Singapore.

I hope everyone has the message now.

Where do i direct my apathy now?

I'm sure i will be told at 6pm between the McDonalds ads and the Coles ads.

 

[Clark Kent]

They ain't ever going to learn. The death penalty is just NOT a deterrant.

Corby could have swung, Barlow and Chambers did in 1986 (I've strong memories of seeing the bodies being carted out, a toe with an ID tag attached to it poking out from under the sheet covering the body).

Hey, I agree. Lock these people up. For life. Let's not kid ourselves that capital punishment in cases like this achieves anything other than one less mouth to feed.

 

[Dry Rot]

Not too sure about the "in transit" arguements presented here, or perhaps more acccurately, not sure that our govt would have acted any differently in arresting the culprit and putting him on trial under Aust law.

Say a mule is carrying half a kilo of hammer to New Zealand. He is discovered during an in-transit stopover in Sydney. Would he just say "This for Auckland" and our Customs guys let him pass through? Or a JI guy has an in-transit stopover in Sydney and is found carrying plutonium bound for a dirty bomb in LA, 24 style. Would he be let go to fly to the USA?

 

[Clark Kent]

A hypothetical:

Mother of four young children is caught smuggling H. Her motive is to pay for the cancer treatment of one of them (suspend the argument that she could/would receive aid here in Aus.).

She would, under the current laws, be sentenced to death by hanging.

Does anyone feel the punishment still fits the crime, or that the laws of another country should still be 'respected'?

 

[spoljar]

The way in which I see is that I am tired of Nguyen being made to sound as if he is some kind of Martyr, Hero or Poor Unfortunate! Bulls(it!

He is a criminal, full stop!
What is all this garbage about a minutes silence for him? Boy we sure love our criminals in this country don't we!

And who are we to say that Singapore laws are unjust or barbaric. Just because we would have released him back into the community after about 2 years because he would have found some loop hole in our laws to argue that he was doing it for his brother or had some poor unfortunate upbringing!

 

[Gary Shadforth]

Young Van Nguyen was born into a world to come across the legacy of forebears and became trapped within it ... lured into a spiderweb of making a mistake which a 22-y-o can make albeit being such a bad and serious one.

For the Singaporean legislators and law-makers, who have a neighbouring country which is their largest trading partner, where the Mr Bigs of the drug trade initiate their evil dealings, to proffer how the death penalty is the way in which to curb drug trafficking is absurd. Clearly their methods are not working in stemming the tide of the drug trade. The Mr Bigs are not going to the gallows.

And have the Singapore powers-that-be ever made a mistake when they were around the age of 22? Albeit to what degree the stupidity and seriousness those mistakes may or may not have been.

I am one of those Australians who is very sad this morning.

 

[Lance Uppercut]

I put this on another board, but this is a better spot for it.

My starting point on all of this is as follows:

Alcohol and nicotine are drugs that kill far more people than illicit drugs. On the premise of prohibition being the best way to stop people dying of drugs, why don't we criminalise these drugs?

We have clearly seen that doesn't work. People think of illicit drugs as somehow different to licit drugs. They aren't!! The only thing different is the way they are viewed by the law.

Now. The illegal drug trade is one of the biggest industries in the world. Masssive. All the more so for being illegal. So you have one of the worlds biggest industries (and profits) in the hands of lowlife criminal scum (generally speaking). Where is the sense in this??

Drugs exist. We can't say they will go away because they are illegal. The industry is growing unfettered, despite the "war on drugs".

The United States is one of the worlds biggest illicit drug consumers. They also have proportionally the largest incarcerated population in the world. They have the death penalty in something like 38 states. The "war" is not working. It's the wrong approach.

Singapore have the death penalty for drugs. Is it a deterrant? Arguably no. There will ALWAYS be someone desparate enough to be a mule. The Mr Bigs know this. Van Nguyen getting caught didn't stop 26,000 doses getting into Australia!!! It just means that 26,000 didn't get thru. Believe me, the Mr Bigs just recruited someone else, and the drugs got through anyway.

Why punish the desparate, the pathetic, with death? The Mr Bigs weren't punished.

I take issue with the "shady anonymous drug dealer" actively pushing it on 17 year olds in clubs. This would be the VAST minority. People seek out drugs. I have used drugs extensivally. I believe in many ways I'm a better person because of it. I am fortunate I never got into hard drugs, but that was a decision I made. Believe me, I went hard.

The drug industry is a capitalist venture. It's dead right that no demand = no supply. Our society lauds successful business ventures. Is it any surprise people ape that but do it in an illicit industry? The only difference is the way the law views it! The trafficker is but a small cog in a vast machine, predicated on this capitalist model.

It's easy. Take the drugs away from the criminals. Use the taxed profits to convince people that drugs are bad. Don't put your head in the sand because there's no point, it's NOT WORKING.

Oh, and don't kill people. State sanctioned or not, it's still murder.

 

[Dry Rot]

A hypothetical:

Mother of four young children is caught smuggling H. Her motive is to pay for the cancer treatment of one of them (suspend the argument that she could/would receive aid here in Aus.).

She would, under the current laws, be sentenced to death by hanging.

Does anyone feel the punishment still fits the crime, or that the laws of another country should still be 'respected'?

Usually with "possession" crimes anywhere, possessing the contraband is enough for guilt, irrespective of motive. Singapore deson't allow pleas in mitigation for such a crime.

Effectively you're suggesting that the mother should get off, or at least not be hung, whereas say some guy does the crime to get cash to save an ailing business and not lose his house would get less sympathy, perhaps get hung, for the same crime.

 

[Captain Sensible]

Well what have we learned from all this?

Don't traffic drugs in Singapore.

I hope everyone has the message now.

Where do i direct my apathy now?

I'm sure i will be told at 6pm between the McDonalds ads and the Coles ads.

Maybe you need to learn that he wasnt trafficking drugs in Singapore? Which Singaporeans did he sell too? Hell what Singaporeans were even affected by his drugs? I'll tell you, NONE.


Take your apathy and stick it where the McDonalds comes out.

 

[Captain Sensible]

Usually with "possession" crimes anywhere, possessing the contraband is enough for guilt, irrespective of motive. Singapore deson't allow pleas in mitigation for such a crime.

So where is the due process? The mandatory nature of the sentence is not a good argument for what these savages have done.

 

[Clark Kent]

Yes, D.R., I'm suggesting exactly that.

I'm not supportive of the death penalty for any reason. I'm asking those who use the argument that we respect the laws of other states, if they think this applies in ALL cases.

I can see a difference in the hypothetical situation I presented and the case with Van Nguyen. However, I don't consider the motive to be relevant. I just flat out oppose capital punishment.

Usually with "possession" crimes anywhere, possessing the contraband is enough for guilt, irrespective of motive. Singapore deson't allow pleas in mitigation for such a crime.

Effectively you're suggesting that the mother should get off, or at least not be hung, whereas say some guy does the crime to get cash to save an ailing business and not lose his house would get less sympathy, perhaps get hung, for the same crime.

 

[Clark Kent]

Spot on, Local.

So where is the due process? The mandatory nature of the sentence is not a good argument for what these savages have done.