Ziebell or Rich

[Black Flag]

Rich has probably peaked as a player, or is very close to peaking. Ziebel for me.

i'd say i nailed it.

nothing against rich, he's still a fine player.

 

[September_Glory]

Rich. I like Ziebell, but Rich is another class imo.

He towelled Priddis up for a half and then faded completely out of the game. Don't say he doesn't have improvement left in him.

 

[September_Glory]

i'd say i nailed it.

nothing against rich, he's still a fine player.

Do you always quote yourself and then tell yourself you're right?

 

[cash]

Do you always quote yourself and then tell yourself you're right?

haha 6 lulz.

 

[HurleyTheFuture]

Ziebell, I feel that he would suit Essendon a lot better but those who are saying Rich has peaked are in for a surprise, a bit like people saying Hurley has nearly peaked because of his build

 

[RichoLedio]

I'm a fan of Rich so I'll choose him

 

[pacman]

Rich easily for mine his foot skills are top shelf, with ability to find the ball.
He is already being tagged by opposition and there would be no reason to tag Ziebull.

I really don't see what the fuss is with Ziebull one 40 possession game with lots of 12-16 possession games thrown in.

 

[Donakebab]

i'd say i nailed it.

nothing against rich, he's still a fine player.

So Rich has peaked at the age of 21 after his third season?


Wouldn't change my vote, Rich's foot skills are exactly what we need and too hard to overlook.


Just wait until the North brigade find out this thread has been bumped, thread will be bombarded with incessant posts banging on about the last handful of Ziebell's games as if he's the games greatest player while completely ignoring anything Rich has ever done.

 

[Pears II]

Both have been disappointing considering the positions they were taken in the draft.

Rich has a lower centre of gravity, Ziebell has more mongrel in him. Both handy players to have in the engine room, doubt they have the ceiling to be #1 midfielder at their clubs though.

Rich has the better kick, him by a nose.

 

[Pykie]

So Rich has peaked at the age of 21 after his third season?


Wouldn't change my vote, Rich's foot skills are exactly what we need and too hard to overlook.


Just wait until the North brigade find out this thread has been bumped, thread will be bombarded with incessant posts banging on about the last handful of Ziebell's games as if he's the games greatest player while completely ignoring anything Rich has ever done.

The hate runs deep in this one......

Both have been disappointing considering the positions they were taken in the draft.

Rich has a lower centre of gravity, Ziebell has more mongrel in him. Both handy players to have in the engine room, doubt they have the ceiling to be #1 midfielder at their clubs though.

Rich has the better kick, him by a nose.

TBH I'm not biased against my own players, but imo, having seen him this pre-season, he will give Swallow and Wells a shake for that tag, this season, let alone in 3 or 4.

 

[ThePuppetMaster]

Tough call; Ziebell at the moment.

But I'm a Rich fan.

 

[pacman]

Both have been disappointing considering the positions they were taken in the draft.

Rich has a lower centre of gravity, Ziebell has more mongrel in him. Both handy players to have in the engine room, doubt they have the ceiling to be #1 midfielder at their clubs though.

Rich has the better kick, him by a nose.

You know Rich won a Rising Star and has been tagged since his first year in the game? Is Heppel also disappointing?

 

[.Shotties.]

I honestly cannot fathom people who continue to go on about how Rich has peaked / stagnated / has less upside.

 

[Hollow Knight]

I honestly cannot fathom people who continue to go on about how Rich has peaked / stagnated / has less upside.

Yeah, it's cringeworthy. Groupthink at its finest.

Rich has had a monster pre-season. In the last 2 years he has gone from being the tail in the running drills to being among the leading group. We've also got some more players to take the inside ball winning load which will free Rich up to play a more free, attacking game and unleash that cannon left foot.

Stay tuned.

Ziebell is a gun by the way.

 

[Bundy_28]

I like Rich. Amazing kicker and wins the contested footy just like Zieball, seems to have come to stand still over the past 12-18 months but he needs the midfield of the Lions to start picking up again and then he will shine.

 

[robertg22]

Yeah, it's cringeworthy. Groupthink at its finest.

Rich has had a monster pre-season. In the last 2 years he has gone from being the tail in the running drills to being among the leading group. We've also got some more players to take the inside ball winning load which will free Rich up to play a more free, attacking game and unleash that cannon left foot.

Stay tuned.

Ziebell is a gun by the way.

From my point of view TBD I think he's a bit of a victim of the fact that he had such a great debut season. Just basing things off average possies per game, he increased from year 1 to 2 but went backwards ever so slightly last year. I think to be an out and out gun he needs to be getting 25 ish touches a game, up from the 19 he gets now.
Good to hear though he has had a top pre season (as has Ziebell by reports) so I am looking forward to see how the year unfolds for both of them!

 

[Stan Darsh]

Rich easily for mine his foot skills are top shelf, with ability to find the ball.
He is already being tagged by opposition and there would be no reason to tag Ziebull.

I really don't see what the fuss is with Ziebull one 40 possession game with lots of 12-16 possession games thrown in.

He averaged 26 possessions on 69% game time in the last 8 games of last season. (not counting the Freo Match where he was subbed in the 1qtr after spitting blood) Fair effort I'd say.

Ziebell has inflicted a savage asssault on his body in his first full preseason and I just want to boof him. He plays the game like a honeybadger and with an even bigger body and an extended fitness base he will be doing it harder, longer and with more confidence being in the leadership group this season.

Could become as good as Voss.

 

[KillaKanga]

Both absolute guns and can't think of a team who wouldn't want either in their side.

Living in QLD I see every Lions game and if Rich can piece together a 'complete' season he will be considered one of the elite players in the comp (maybe need to do it over 2 years for consistency).

Ziebell isn't as damaging as Rich (penetration) but his goal from 50 in the round robin shows he can hoof it and I rate his physical presence very highly. With some consistency towards the end of the year he showed he could find the pill (not a 40 possie wonder!). In the last 12 games (Not counting Freo) he racked up 20 or more possies in every game bar 2 (16 Ess, 13St K). He also laid 10+ tackles on 3 occassions.

Haven't voted as it's too tight to choose. I'd obviously go Ziebell but that'd be obvious

Wouldn't be surprised if both/either were to be Captain and/or win a Brownlow in their careers/

 

[pacman]

He averaged 26 possessions on 69% game time in the last 8 games of last season. (not counting the Freo Match where he was subbed in the 1qtr after spitting blood) Fair effort I'd say.

Ziebell has inflicted a savage asssault on his body in his first full preseason and I just want to boof him. He plays the game like a honeybadger and with an even bigger body and an extended fitness base he will be doing it harder, longer and with more confidence being in the leadership group this season.

Could become as good as Voss.

Hahaha love your passion, I'll be keeping a close eye on him this season.
Good luck with your sexcapades with young Bull!

 

[Slattery_20]

I honestly cannot fathom people who continue to go on about how Rich has peaked / stagnated / has less upside.

It's because he hasn't been injured, whereas Ziebell has had injuries... therefore Ziebell will be better, despite never really showing the same form... or something like that.

The pure volume of his output so far has been massive for a guy who's only been there 3 years.
He just doesn't follow the exponential curve that - as bigfooty constantly assures me - all young players are on.
You're better off not playing your first year or two, then giving a glimpse, than playing solid, consistent football. It's ridiculous but you see instances of it time & time again

Ziebell will be a good footballer, but I can't help but think the expectations are creeping up a bit high for a guy who's played 10 or 15 good games, tops.

 

[GarnerSmash]

Ziebell will be a good footballer, but I can't help but think the expectations are creeping up a bit high for a guy who's played 10 or 15 good games, tops.

The majority of Ziebell's good games were in the back end of last year. This indicates a trend. What influenced this trend? Increased fitness levels which required work because of two broken legs. Taking into consideration the amount of extra work he did during the season 2011 proper it's no coincidence that the output of Ziebell's second half of 2011 was much improved on his previous output.

What he needs to do in 2012 is at least maintain that level of performance. If he maintains that level of output and increases game time from 70% to 80% he will be, statistically speaking, one of the best inside mids in the comp. Who wouldn't want a big bloke in the guts that averages 26 disposals (16 contested), 9 clearances and 9 tackles a game?

He ain't done it yet though, and that is his challenge.

 

[Slattery_20]

Or copped some shit sides who'd put the gun in the rack already. Dogs were playing... how shall I say this, at a rather low intensity at times last year. Most likely, a bit of both.

He's definitely on the improve, anyone can see that, but I'm sure I'm not the only one who's fallen into the trap of massively over-rating a kid, based on a handful of really good games, towards the tail end of a year. When they've never shown anything like that at any other point.

cf Jarred Grant / Chris Masten / Mitch Morton / Tom Swift / Dan Connors.

Kid has talent, but let's leave the "Voss" and "best in the comp" shit out, thank you very much.

 

[GarnerSmash]

Or copped some shit sides who'd put the gun in the rack already. Dogs were playing... how shall I say this, at a rather low intensity at times last year. Most likely, a bit of both.

27 vs Collingwood
28 vs St. Kilda
27 vs Hawthorn
22 vs Carlton

All in the second half of the season playing in the guts and at 70% game time.

He is showing signs of being a cracking inside mid.

 

[Slattery_20]

Where has anyone denied he's showing good signs?

 

[GarnerSmash]

Where has anyone denied he's showing good signs?

He has shown them more regularly and against better opposition than he gets credit for. Your reference to him getting cheap stats against the Dogs is a case in point.

But this is moot really. It's what happens from here on in that matters. Both young and developing mids with plenty of scope for improvement whose best is well ahead of them.