Mega Thread The 2015 Buckley coaching megathread

[76woodenspooners]

So u basing the success of our coach on what carlton achieves?

Not just Carlton - but what the 17 other clubs achieve.

I can handle Clarkson winning a string of Premierships based on the team he's built up over a period of time.

I can handle one of Clarkson's protégés (Adam Simpson) taking his team from 13th to 9th (past us) in only his first season, then from 9th to Grand Final in his second year.

I can handle a second of Clarkson's protégés (Luke Beveridge) taking his team from 14th to 6th (past us) in only his first season.

If a third Clarkson protégé (Bendan Bolton) were to do that, then I would see it as a sign that we might not be backing the right Premiership horse.

I'm not suggesting that we should recruit a Clarkson protégé. We need to have the best coach going forward - whoever that may be. And I hope that coach is Buckley. I just think that if a string of rookie coaches are able to consistently overtake Buckley then I don't think he is the right coach for us.

What's your canary in the coalmine?

Fk me, no wonder we underachieve as a club, we worry about everyone else and not on what we hav to do.

There's a good reason why clubs employ opposition analysists and opposition scouts.

 

[SpongePie]

If a third Clarkson protégé (Bendan Bolton) were to do that, then I would see it as a sign that we might not be backing the right Premiership horse.

Geez if Carlton finish higher than us next year... I think the whole of BF will be calling for Buck's head.

 

[ksardog]

Not just Carlton - but what the 17 other clubs achieve.

I can handle Clarkson winning a string of Premierships based on the team he's built up over a period of time.

I can handle one of Clarkson's protégés (Adam Simpson) taking his team from 13th to 9th (past us) in only his first season, then from 9th to Grand Final in his second year.

I can handle a second of Clarkson's protégés (Luke Beveridge) taking his team from 14th to 6th (past us) in only his first season.

If a third Clarkson protégé (Bendan Bolton) were to do that, then I would see it as a sign that we might not be backing the right Premiership horse.

I'm not suggesting that we should recruit a Clarkson protégé. We need to have the best coach going forward - whoever that may be. And I hope that coach is Buckley. I just think that if a string of rookie coaches are able to consistently overtake Buckley then I don't think he is the right coach for us.

What's your canary in the coalmine?



There's a good reason why clubs employ opposition analysists and opposition scouts.

Finals, or he can pack his bags.

 

[jmac70]

Finals, or he can pack his bags.

Missing three straight finals would be hard for the club to ignore. Apparently we improved this year so Bucks could just survive it.

 

[Mick39]

3 years out of finals will see Nathan lose his job. I think he is smart enough to realise that.

 

[Saintly Viewed]

People spend way too much time in my opinion worrying about everyone else.
Its all flavour of the month stuff.
Today its Hawthorn, just a little while back it was Geelong, even once it eas all about Malthouse proteges.

So Bulldogs have passed us? Really? Two grand finals ever, last flag 1954 v our last flag2010.
Granted thats not worth a hill of beans for future performance.

Building lists is what every club does, someone wins, once a year, but there is no magic pudding called clarkson, or mchale, or hafey, or matthews theres only hard work, getting things right, getting in a position to challenge and then somehow do it on the day.

As good as clarkson is, he'd do no good in carlton, it would take him 5 years plus at a minimum.
He built his list on franklin, roughead, mitchell, hodge, riolli etc
And that then helps solidify the flavour of the month.
Good luck to him, he has earnt it, but nothing will give us success again without building the list working hard and hoping our list elite and depth beats everyone else.
No guarantees.

 

[76woodenspooners]

People spend way too much time in my opinion worrying about everyone else.
Its all flavour of the month stuff.
Today its Hawthorn, just a little while back it was Geelong, even once it eas all about Malthouse proteges.

We're judging the Clarkson protégés as having achieved some success in their own right (as Simpson and Beveridge have)

How many Malthouse protégés have achieved anything in their own right? You could argue that Brad Scott did eventually. Guy McKenna? Nup. Scott Watters? Nup. Mark Neeld? Nup.

So Bulldogs have passed us? Really? Two grand finals ever, last flag 1954 v our last flag2010.

Not worth a hill of beans for future performance.

Granted thats not worth a hill of beans for future performance.

You said it!

Building lists is what every club does, someone wins, once a year, but there is no magic pudding called clarkson, or mchale, or hafey, or matthews theres only hard work, getting things right, getting in a position to challenge and then somehow do it on the day.

So by extension it doesn't matter who is coach?

Hafey got a wooden spooner team to the grand final in his first season. Do you reckon any coach could have achieved that?

Malthouse got a wooden spoon team to a Grand Final in only his third season. Do you reckon any coach could have achieved that?

As good as clarkson is, he'd do no good in carlton, it would take him 5 years plus at a minimum.
He built his list on franklin, roughead, mitchell, hodge, riolli etc
And that then helps solidify the flavour of the month.

People were saying the same about Ross Lyon when he went to Fremantle. Got them into a Grand Final in only his second season.

Good luck to him, he has earnt it, but nothing will give us success again without building the list working hard and hoping our list elite and depth beats everyone else.

+ Gameplans + game day strategy + player skills + player motivation, etc, etc.

No guarantees.

Indeed!

 

[Markfs]

One comment about coaches "getting" wooden spooners to finals.......Tom Hafey took a dysfunctional unfit team of individuals and turned them into a team. He certainly got them to the grand final, which was a great achievement, but the players should never have been at the bottom of the ladder in the first place. Murray Weideman was hopeless coaching the team in his second year. The fact that he got the team to 5th place in his first year indicates that the players were capable of more.

The situation with Malthouse was slightly different. To separate the impact of Eddie from what Malthouse achieved is clearly misrepresenting the situation. Ed had a huge impact on getting the club focused on modernisation and getting everyone on the same page. While Malthouse played his part, he was not the sole reason the club turned around in 3 years.

If you're continually going to focus on coaches providing magic tricks to get teams into finals, you're going to ignore the importance of good recruiting, good player development and having the whole club united with the single focus on winning a premiership.

Even the great Tommy Hafey went to Geelong and "failed". Even the great Michael Malthouse went to Carlton and failed. Those facts are just as important as the legendary triumphant one-man coaching masterpieces where these two men supposedly created grand finalists from nothing.

 

[Maggie5]

One comment about coaches "getting" wooden spooners to finals.......Tom Hafey took a dysfunctional unfit team of individuals and turned them into a team. He certainly got them to the grand final, which was a great achievement, but the players should never have been at the bottom of the ladder in the first place. Murray Weideman was hopeless coaching the team in his second year. The fact that he got the team to 5th place in his first year indicates that the players were capable of more.

The situation with Malthouse was slightly different. To separate the impact of Eddie from what Malthouse achieved is clearly misrepresenting the situation. Ed had a huge impact on getting the club focused on modernisation and getting everyone on the same page. While Malthouse played his part, he was not the sole reason the club turned around in 3 years.

If you're continually going to focus on coaches providing magic tricks to get teams into finals, you're going to ignore the importance of good recruiting, good player development and having the whole club united with the single focus on winning a premiership.

Even the great Tommy Hafey went to Geelong and "failed". Even the great Michael Malthouse went to Carlton and failed. Those facts are just as important as the legendary triumphant one-man coaching masterpieces where these two men supposedly created grand finalists from nothing.

I love it when you are serious.

 

[MarkT2]

People spend way too much time in my opinion worrying about everyone else..

Really? Success is relative. It doesn't matter how good or bad we are it matters that we are better than all the competition. That's the ONLY basis for winning premierships. As a club we have actually been far too insular over the last half century. We reacted slowly to professionalisation and refused to pay players in the 60s/70s. We reacted slowly to equalisation in the 80s/90s. We've had arrogant and self absorbed administrators over the years, even going back to TW Sherring if you listen to old timers.

You need to benchmark against the best and beat that with some of your own IP.

 

[MarkT2]

One comment about coaches "getting" wooden spooners to finals.......Tom Hafey took a dysfunctional unfit team of individuals and turned them into a team. He certainly got them to the grand final, which was a great achievement, but the players should never have been at the bottom of the ladder in the first place. Murray Weideman was hopeless coaching the team in his second year. The fact that he got the team to 5th place in his first year indicates that the players were capable of more.

The situation with Malthouse was slightly different. To separate the impact of Eddie from what Malthouse achieved is clearly misrepresenting the situation. Ed had a huge impact on getting the club focused on modernisation and getting everyone on the same page. While Malthouse played his part, he was not the sole reason the club turned around in 3 years.

If you're continually going to focus on coaches providing magic tricks to get teams into finals, you're going to ignore the importance of good recruiting, good player development and having the whole club united with the single focus on winning a premiership.

Even the great Tommy Hafey went to Geelong and "failed". Even the great Michael Malthouse went to Carlton and failed. Those facts are just as important as the legendary triumphant one-man coaching masterpieces where these two men supposedly created grand finalists from nothing.

At the risk of over simplifying, we finished last because the club was divided. Players got involved in the election, handing out vote cards. Ern Clarke was a disaster.

 

[Saintly Viewed]

Agree re ern clarke.
That said lets just be the best!

 

[Saintly Viewed]

We're judging the Clarkson protégés as having achieved some success in their own right (as Simpson and Beveridge have)

How many Malthouse protégés have achieved anything in their own right? You could argue that Brad Scott did eventually. Guy McKenna? Nup. Scott Watters? Nup. Mark Neeld? Nup.



Not worth a hill of beans for future performance.



You said it!



So by extension it doesn't matter who is coach?

Hafey got a wooden spooner team to the grand final in his first season. Do you reckon any coach could have achieved that?

Malthouse got a wooden spoon team to a Grand Final in only his third season. Do you reckon any coach could have achieved that?



People were saying the same about Ross Lyon when he went to Fremantle. Got them into a Grand Final in only his second season.



+ Gameplans + game day strategy + player skills + player motivation, etc, etc.



Indeed!

Actually Rick in Casablanca said it, fantastic movie.
Humphrey Bogart, now he could deliver a line and a movie

 

[Markfs]

At the risk of over simplifying, we finished last because the club was divided. Players got involved in the election, handing out vote cards. Ern Clarke was a disaster.

exactly. I shouldnt have put all the blame on weideman for the failure, just as I dont believe in giving all the roses to the coach when the club is successful.

 

[Markfs]

I love it when you are serious.

i know.... i get excited when I'm close to me

 

[Markfs]

Not just Carlton - but what the 17 other clubs achieve.

I can handle Clarkson winning a string of Premierships based on the team he's built up over a period of time.

I can handle one of Clarkson's protégés (Adam Simpson) taking his team from 13th to 9th (past us) in only his first season, then from 9th to Grand Final in his second year.

I can handle a second of Clarkson's protégés (Luke Beveridge) taking his team from 14th to 6th (past us) in only his first season.

If a third Clarkson protégé (Bendan Bolton) were to do that, then I would see it as a sign that we might not be backing the right Premiership horse.

I'm not suggesting that we should recruit a Clarkson protégé. We need to have the best coach going forward - whoever that may be. And I hope that coach is Buckley. I just think that if a string of rookie coaches are able to consistently overtake Buckley then I don't think he is the right coach for us.

What's your canary in the coalmine?



There's a good reason why clubs employ opposition analysists and opposition scouts.

if carlton finishes higher than collingwood next year, then buckley shouldn't just be sacked... he should have to refund his entire salary.

As for adam simpson...... here is a quick cut and paste of games played at the Beagles...... evaluate it as you see fit.
Mark LeCras 154
Andrew Gaff 110
Dom Sheed 33
Brad Sheppard 84
Elliot Yeo 64
Chris Masten 140
Nic Naitanui 131
Scott Selwood 135
Matt Priddis 197
Sharrod Wellingham 139
Luke Shuey 111
Jamie Cripps 75
Eric Mackenzie 121
Josh Kennedy 165
Xavier Ellis 118
Jeremy McGovern 33
Callum Sinclair 29
Matt Rosa 168
Shannon Hurn 177
Sam Butler 137
Jack Darling 105
Will Schofield 132
Josh Hill 139

 

[ClaytonM]

The reality of modern football is your list manager is the most important person at a club. Lists take years to build and generally result from years of failure. The Hawks of today was built on the failures of the noughties. Port profited from the final years of Williams and Primus. Bulldogs have risen on failures of past five years. West Coast have underperformed since mid 2000s.

Priority at moment is to build the list which is a slow and methodical process. Then worry about the coach. As Bulldogs have shown coaches can be replaced at the drop of the hat. But lists cannot be replaced so easily.

 

[Black_White]

While Ed is Prez, Bux is safe.
He gave MM 12 years. What makes you think he would give his love child any less?
It's a package. Both or none.

 

[76woodenspooners]

Actually Rick in Casablanca said it, fantastic movie.
Humphrey Bogart, now he could deliver a line and a movie

... Of all the gin joints in all the towns in all the world, she walks into mine ...

 

[Saintly Viewed]

... Of all the gin joints in all the towns in all the world, she walks into mine ...

At least we'll always have Paris

 

[TheWoodsOf72]

Geez if Carlton finish higher than us next year... I think the whole of BF will be calling for Buck's head.

I will be call for it if we do not make the finals and win one at that.

 

[TheWoodsOf72]

The reality of modern football is your list manager is the most important person at a club. Lists take years to build and generally result from years of failure. The Hawks of today was built on the failures of the noughties. Port profited from the final years of Williams and Primus. Bulldogs have risen on failures of past five years. West Coast have underperformed since mid 2000s.

Priority at moment is to build the list which is a slow and methodical process. Then worry about the coach. As Bulldogs have shown coaches can be replaced at the drop of the hat. But lists cannot be replaced so easily.

we sure cleaned the list after 2011. Imagine if we still had Heater (BF GWS) and Beams (BF Brisbane) on our list.

 

[Saintly Viewed]

we sure cleaned the list after 2011. Imagine if we still had Heater (BF GWS) and Beams (BF Brisbane) on our list.

This old chesnut
No even worth going over, yet again

 

[ClaytonM]

we sure cleaned the list after 2011. Imagine if we still had Heater (BF GWS) and Beams (BF Brisbane) on our list.

Yeah we wouldn't have DeGoey, Adams, Greenwood, and Crisp.

Overall i think our list will be stronger in the next few years due to these trades. If not, we certainly break even.

 

[Mick39]

It's going to be tough for Buckley next year. At this point with the current delistings, we have the youngest list in the AFL.

Last year at the members forum, there was a big discussion about the age demographics of lists. The only outliers were Carlton, that there is a direct colleration about the oldest lists being in the Top 4 and the youngest in the bottom 4.

Even if Buckley can get the team out of the bottom 4/6, there won't be much sympathy if it's 3 straight years out of the 8.