List Mgmt. 2023 Draft & Trade Hypotheticals

[Ticky009]

Key Dates:

Trade Period, October 6–18

• Restricted & Unrestricted Free Agency Period: Friday, October 6, 9am – Friday October 13, 5pm (bid matching ends Monday October 16, 5pm)
• Trade Period (1), picks & players: Monday, October 9, 9am – Wednesday October 18, 7.30pm

Quiet Period, October 19–November 20

• Trade Period (2), picks only: Monday, October 23, 9am – Friday November 10, 5pm
• List Lodgement 1*: Tuesday, October 31, 2pm
• Delisted Free Agency Period (1): Wednesday, November 1, 9am – Wednesday November 8, 5pm
• Delisted Free Agency Period (2): Friday, November 10, 9am–5pm
• List Lodgement 2*: Tuesday, November 14, 2pm

Draft Period, November 20–22

• Round 1 of the National Draft: Monday, November 20, time and venue TBA
• Trade Period (3), picks only: Tuesday, November 21, 5.45pm–6.30pm
• Round 2–end of the National Draft: Tuesday, November 21, 7pm until completion
• Rookie Promotions: Tuesday, November 21, after the National Draft
• Delisted Free Agency Period (3): Tuesday, November 21, after the National Draft
• List Lodgement 3*: Wednesday, November 22, 10am (optional; required for those participating in the PSD)
• Pre-Season Draft: Wednesday, November 22, 3pm
• Rookie Draft: Wednesday, November 22, 3.20pm
• Final List Lodgement*: Thursday, November 23, 4pm

* List lodgement dates are yet to be made public, so are approximate based on past history and the requirements of the AFL Rules. When lists are lodged, the number of players on the list must not exceed maximum list sizes. At the same time, clubs must provide the AFL with estimates of total player payments in the current and following year, which must prove the club is not and will not exceed the salary cap. (AFL Rules 5.3, 6.1, 6.8, 7.2, 7.9)

 

[Grand Uncle Horace]

Looking at the robbieando list of contracted players we have 28 contracted for 24 or beyond. One includes Paddy and another is Fox as a third year Category A.

Don't know about Arnold but I was pretty sure I read Buller was contracted to 2024.

I reckon we will see retirements from Paddy and Lance.

I hope in looking at who is offered extensions the Club takes having a robust body into account. This year we carried three players who cannot be relied upon to stay out of rehabilitation. These are Read, Sheather and Melican. I think none should be offered contracts. Another Club may pick up Melican.

Age and injury have seemingly caught up with Hickey. I don't think he should be recontracted. I hope he gets a gig as captain coach of the 2s and is paid from a combo of the soft cap and VFL. Our 2s will again be a young group next year and need onfield smart leadership to help their development.

Others will differ but I'd delist Clarke and Rankin and I expect Stephens to be traded.

I reckon we trade in two players and draft at least three to the main list. I reckon Wicks and Magor will make the main list.

Aside from Stephens and maybe Melican other potential trades are HHK and even Rowy and Hayward.

In thinking ahead I'm thing about balance - mids, rucks, defence and fwds.

 

[Dubai Quacker]

By the time the AFL's done giving out compo picks like candy on Halloween the pick wouldn't be in the top 10 anyway. Good year to use it for trades.

Point of order: lollies, not candy.

But if we (as expected) finish around 10th, then we are looking at a first round pick in double figures - so I agree, not a bad year to trade it.

As long as its not for Ben McKay.

 

[SM]

Then can we pass please a top 10 probably top 7 pick for a 28 year old?

Where are we getting a top 7 pick from?

 

[Bloods86]

Then can we pass please a top 10 probably top 7 pick for a 28 year old?

If we continue building form, it's probably pick 10 at the earliest. There'll be 2-3 spots pushed back from wherever we end up (I still think we finish about 10th).

 

[Bloods86]

Jones played 90 games in 6 seasons. If that’s a failure by the club in recruiting then it’s not a bad miss. The issue was he was a flight risk in the end so maybe the club should have gone with someone else.

It's not terrible, but he didn't do a lot for us and had some attitude problems. I wasn't that sad to see him go.

So then we're down to 1 complete miss in Stephens over the last 10 years, and even he could end up flourishing somewhere else.

Just adds to my questions over why people think we're so terrible in the first round.

 

[tombomb]

Dawson was a kid coming through and out of contract, Barrass is a contracted 27 year old..

Dawson wasn't a kid coming through. He had been really good for two years and would have been in the AA40 if he played for a Victorian club in 2021.

 

[SM]

Dawson wasn't a kid coming through. He had been really good for two years and would have been in the AA40 if he played for a Victorian club in 2021.

Fair enough depends how you define a 24 year old but I wouldn't put him in the same category as Barrass age-wise, and point remains he was out of contract, Barrass isn't, which is where the language around 'needing to give up something good' comes in.

 

[melbournehammer]

Just as an aside - that 2019 draft isnt exactly setting the world on fire.

In the end we got warner and stephens, probably the best performing player in the draft to date and another player who could very easily play 100 games in the end. Out of the open selection Id really only put warner serong and young ahead of him and maybe georgiades. (Couldnt have weightman...)

 

[Caj]

So is it our recruiting or our development that needs improving? Weird to have made four grand finals in the last decade despite not doing much right!

You’ve misquoted me

You said we were the best club in the recruiting space, I simply pointed out that if we were we would have more than zero premierships in the last 11 seasons.

Our development appears to be pretty good, unless a player is on the outer with the coach, in which case they tend to get frozen out.

 

[tombomb]

Fair enough depends how you define a 24 year old but I wouldn't put him in the same category as Barrass age-wise, and point remains he was out of contract, Barrass isn't, which is where the language around 'needing to give up something good' comes in.

The difference was the media narrative around Dawson to dramatically underrate him as a player. Most were saying he was worth about pick 15, regardless of his contract status. I remember Matt Rendell saying he was worth about pick 25 on trade radio. No one said that is ridiculous.

That won't be happening with Barrass. We will be expected to pay 150% of his value.

 

[SM]

The difference was the media narrative around Dawson to dramatically underrate him as a player. Most were saying he was worth about pick 15, regardless of his contract status. I remember Matt Rendell saying he was worth about pick 25 on trade radio. No one said that is ridiculous.

That won't be happening with Barrass. We will be expected to pay 150% of his value.

We're arguing different things here as it still irks me to this day that Dawson was talked down as a player when we were trying to get what he was worth for him.

It won't be happening, once again, because Barrass is a contracted player.

 

[Ehswan]

Looking at the robbieando list of contracted players we have 28 contracted for 24 or beyond. One includes Paddy and another is Fox as a third year Category A.

Don't know about Arnold but I was pretty sure I read Buller was contracted to 2024.

I reckon we will see retirements from Paddy and Lance.

I hope in looking at who is offered extensions the Club takes having a robust body into account. This year we carried three players who cannot be relied upon to stay out of rehabilitation. These are Read, Sheather and Melican. I think none should be offered contracts. Another Club may pick up Melican.

Age and injury have seemingly caught up with Hickey. I don't think he should be recontracted. I hope he gets a gig as captain coach of the 2s and is paid from a combo of the soft cap and VFL. Our 2s will again be a young group next year and need onfield smart leadership to help their development.

Others will differ but I'd delist Clarke and Rankin and I expect Stephens to be traded.

I reckon we trade in two players and draft at least three to the main list. I reckon Wicks and Magor will make the main list.

Aside from Stephens and maybe Melican other potential trades are HHK and even Rowy and Hayward.

In thinking ahead I'm thing about balance - mids, rucks, defence and fwds.

No chance unless they request it that rowy or Hayward get traded. Even hhk won't be traded ilin my opinion.

 

[Tedeski]

Looks good at the lower level. Who would he displace from our current midfield setup though?

Stephens.

 

[Tedeski]

So is it our recruiting or our development that needs improving? Weird to have made four grand finals in the last decade despite not doing much right!

The 2012 premiership was thanks to the Paul Roos team. Yes I know Beatson was part of that but Roos' influence to extract Mumford from the Cats & Kennedy from the Hawks cannot ever be underestimated & Horse has Roos to thank for inheriting that list of players who had the right chemistry & ticker to first be competitive which in turn allowed them to be close enough to pinch it.

2014 & 2022 were putrid while 2016 was yuck!

Horse is a very good coach but has struggled to develop a good list.

 

[tombomb]

If we trade our first for Barrass we sure as anything better be getting WCE paying 80% of the contract.

Our first pick is now in a range where it would be a reasonable trade for everyone as a straight swap.

 

[kickthething]

The 2012 premiership was thanks to the Paul Roos team. Yes I know Beatson was part of that but Roos' influence to extract Mumford from the Cats & Kennedy from the Hawks cannot ever be underestimated & Horse has Roos to thank for inheriting that list of players who had the right chemistry & ticker to first be competitive which in turn allowed them to be close enough to pinch it.

2014 & 2022 were putrid while 2016 was yuck!

Horse is a very good coach but has struggled to develop a good list.

If Horse has not developed a good list, then you are underselling his ability as a coach. He would be elite rather than very good to get a mediocre list to 3 GFs.

 

[tombomb]

Maybe it's on the coaching and development staff too. The list team bring them in initially, but they aren't the ones developing the players after that.

We've certainly not been immune to losing players that have gone on to greater heights elsewhere. No team is really.

I think there were red flags with Stephens almost immediately that he wasn't a huge fan of the contest.

 

[kickthething]

If we trade our first for Barrass we sure as anything better be getting WCE paying 80% of the contract.

West Coast are not in any cap trouble from what I can see, why would they contribute anything to Barras' contract. It will be a decision for them, if Barrass wants to leave, as to how hard they push to keep someone who does not want to be there. If they are content to keep him, that all there is to it. If they decide to let him go, I would think both parties can agree to void his contract and he can sign on with a brand new contract. There is no compulsion for his existing contract to travel with him unless they are having a fire sale re; Grundy where the club wants the player out. This will be Barrass driving the change, not the West Coast.

 

[kickthething]

Point of order: lollies, not candy.

But if we (as expected) finish around 10th, then we are looking at a first round pick in double figures - so I agree, not a bad year to trade it.

As long as its not for Ben McKay.

We should show some interest in Ben if only to push his price up a little more for the Bombers.

 

[Caj]

If Horse has not developed a good list, then you are underselling his ability as a coach. He would be elite rather than very good to get a mediocre list to 3 GFs.

He lost all 3, 2 of which were close to record defeats, enough said

 

[kickthething]

He lost all 3, 2 of which were close to record defeats, enough said

Thats a different argument......he still qualified the team for 3 GFs....not really enough said.

 

[the hypnotoad]

Dawson was a kid coming through and out of contract, Barrass is a contracted 27 year old..

dawson had graduated from "a kid coming through" before he left us
he was clearly a very good footballer on his way to becoming a better footballer
my post was more that the vic media seemed to have no sense of how good he was ... compared to us now being "told" we have to give up plenty to secure the barrass deal

... and as i read on i see my thoughts have been echoed

 

[Dubai Quacker]

Dawson wasn't a kid coming through. He had been really good for two years and would have been in the AA40 if he played for a Victorian club in 2021.

People easily forget that Dawson was very ordinary in his first few seasons - then improved rapidly.

However, one thing he did always have was height, athleticism and a good kick. The rest came with strength, endurance and confidence.

It’s why I’m a bit perturbed at the prospect of Stephens going elsewhere for bugger-all. There’s still the potential that he “clicks”.

We’ll potentially be selling (very) low.

 

[SM]

dawson had graduated from "a kid coming through" before he left us
he was clearly a very good footballer on his way to becoming a better footballer
my post was more that the vic media seemed to have no sense of how good he was ... compared to us now being "told" we have to give up plenty to secure the barrass deal

... and as i read on i see my thoughts have been echoed

Barrass is under contract.

 

[the hypnotoad]

People easily forget that Dawson was very ordinary in his first few seasons - then improved rapidly.

However, one thing he did always have was height, athleticism and a good kick. The rest came with strength, endurance and confidence.

It’s why I’m a bit perturbed at the prospect of Stephens going elsewhere for bugger-all. There’s still the potential that he “clicks”.

We’ll potentially be selling (very) low.

i disagree ... he didn't see much senior football but i rated dawson from the first preseason games i saw him in ... from memory he played one very good game in very wet conditions ...
he always had that boot, and he could always take a mark
and i always believed he'd stay (sniff)