2015 Trade/FA Discussion (cont. in Pt.2)

[Judge]

Agreed went way too deep in the draft last year and now we are stuck with what I class as maybe 2 or 3 rookie types on our senior list

Have you seen any of these kids play?

 

[AFLQLD]

I think we are often very quick to assume that if a player hasn't debuted in his first year, he must be no good. But I think at plenty of clubs many first year players don't even get a start unless they really shine.

At the Lions over the last few years, playing first year players has been the norm rather than letting them develop in the reserves, because we have had injuries and scarce playing resources. Some players are simply not up to AFL standard at 18 years of age. Andrews is, Dawson seems to be. But not all of them are.

I always thought Crisp debuted before he was anywhere near ready. He spent a few seasons barely in, and mostly out, of the team, never really looking likely to stay for too long. In a stronger team I doubt he would have even be considered for many games, but importantly would have been developed in the reserves until he was ready. We saw at the end of last season that he was ready finally, and he has gone upward from there. He would be comfortably best 22 in our team right now.

Not every young player develops to the standard required. We know that. Every team has their fair share of those. That is the lottery of drafting sometimes, especially at the lower end. But enough players make it if they have time and development invested in them, to not write them off too quickly. For every Harris Andrews, who quickly looks like he belongs in season one, there will be three or four others...and one of those will be a Jack Crisp.

List management needs don't allow us to keep them all, but sometimes a year or two of development are the investment required in young players to find a best 22 player in the longer run.

 

[Fitzroy bears]

Have you seen any of these kids play?

Have to say no cause the reserves arent televised and they dont play in sa, but as I said we have had extreme injury toll and would have thought they may have forced their way in. plus the game reveiws from woe have not exactly been great imo

 

[Toffee Lion]

Leppa himself said he would rather the kids play in the two's but obviously due to the injury toll has to push some kids development a bit quicker.

 

[Fitzroy bears]

I understand I may be a bit harsh and hope I am wrong but I dont think our list is in the position to leave untried players on list fir an entire season for developement

 

[Fitzroy bears]

I think we are often very quick to assume that if a player hasn't debuted in his first year, he must be no good. But I think at plenty of clubs many first year players don't even get a start unless they really shine.

At the Lions over the last few years, playing first year players has been the norm rather than letting them develop in the reserves, because we have had injuries and scarce playing resources. Some players are simply not up to AFL standard at 18 years of age. Andrews is, Dawson seems to be. But not all of them are.

I always thought Crisp debuted before he was anywhere near ready. He spent a few seasons barely in, and mostly out, of the team, never really looking likely to stay for too long. In a stronger team I doubt he would have even be considered for many games, but importantly would have been developed in the reserves until he was ready. We saw at the end of last season that he was ready finally, and he has gone upward from there. He would be comfortably best 22 in our team right now.

Not every young player develops to the standard required. We know that. Every team has their fair share of those. That is the lottery of drafting sometimes, especially at the lower end. But enough players make it if they have time and development invested in them, to not write them off too quickly. For every Harris Andrews, who quickly looks like he belongs in season one, there will be three or four others...and one of those will be a Jack Crisp.

List management needs don't allow us to keep them all, but sometimes a year or two of development are the investment required in young players to find a best 22 player in the longer run.

And you made my point jack crisp was rookie listed player and thats all I was saying maybe they should have that time to develope while not effecting the depth of the senior list. Just an opinion

 

[BuntonRules]

I understand I may be a bit harsh and hope I am wrong but I dont think our list is in the position to leave untried players on list fir an entire season for developement

2 questions

Who would you drop just to give them a game?

Has there ever been a list without a few untried players?

 

[Wayne Swan]

Plenty of our current and former best players at the Swans served a long apprenticeship in the reserves before finally improving to the required standard.

Some of them appeared destined to be delisted but eventually made it, Adam Goodes was close to being cut as was Norm Smith Medallist Ryan O'Keefe. So don't be too quick to judge players, some come on really quickly, some take a long time and eventually become guns.

Watched GCS tonight, reckon you'll get beat next week but what a bonus, pick 1. Do you want Schache or Weitering? I reckon with go home factor take the boy who wants to be at Brisbane, Schache. Then it's onto your academy boys. Have a great draft.

 

[Mavlions1961]

Plenty of our current and former best players at the Swans served a long apprenticeship in the reserves before finally improving to the required standard.

Some of them appeared destined to be delisted but eventually made it, Adam Goodes was close to being cut as was Norm Smith Medallist Ryan O'Keefe. So don't be too quick to judge players, some come on really quickly, some take a long time and eventually become guns.

Watched GCS tonight, reckon you'll get beat next week but what a bonus, pick 1. Do you want Schache or Weitering? I reckon with go home factor take the boy who wants to be at Brisbane, Schache. Then it's onto your academy boys. Have a great draft.

Taken onboard, but it is hard to take you as credible with a name of Wayne Swan up here in Brissy. lol...

 

[Fitzroy bears]

Plenty of our current and former best players at the Swans served a long apprenticeship in the reserves before finally improving to the required standard.

Some of them appeared destined to be delisted but eventually made it, Adam Goodes was close to being cut as was Norm Smith Medallist Ryan O'Keefe. So don't be too quick to judge players, some come on really quickly, some take a long time and eventually become guns.

Watched GCS tonight, reckon you'll get beat next week but what a bonus, pick 1. Do you want Schache or Weitering? I reckon with go home factor take the boy who wants to be at Brisbane, Schache. Then it's onto your academy boys. Have a great draft.

Agreed. Still wondering why three guys on our rookie list seem to be more prepared for senior footy then 2 of our senior listed players, but seems to be loosing argument so that's the last from me on this.

 

[whatboutbob]

Plenty of our current and former best players at the Swans served a long apprenticeship in the reserves before finally improving to the required standard.

Some of them appeared destined to be delisted but eventually made it, Adam Goodes was close to being cut as was Norm Smith Medallist Ryan O'Keefe. So don't be too quick to judge players, some come on really quickly, some take a long time and eventually become guns.

Watched GCS tonight, reckon you'll get beat next week but what a bonus, pick 1. Do you want Schache or Weitering? I reckon with go home factor take the boy who wants to be at Brisbane, Schache. Then it's onto your academy boys. Have a great draft.

We play Carlton the week after. Likely battle for the spoon. They seem to play in a lot of those...

 

[jackess]

I think we'll be the Suns and Blues and finish 16th which will force our hand a bit.

 

[blueiris]

I think we'll be the Suns and Blues and finish 16th which will force our hand a bit.

What's the point of beating the Suns and Blues and missing out on either of Schache and Wietering?

 

[Royboys44]

Carlton are woeful and will out tank us easily. I watched them tank tonight after they realised at half time they could win if they kept up the second quarters effort.

 

[SizeMatters]

What's the point of beating the Suns and Blues and missing out on either of Schache and Wietering?

Not looking forward to the Blues game... going to be an absolute rubbish game. I suspect questionable game day coaching from both sides and "resting" of key players.

 

[Football Pope]

I disagree... Carlton have a stand in coach that is wanting the permanent gig.... They'll be out to win...back it in ...also...for no other reason.. John Barker played for the Lions and owes us!!

 

[STrAng3C1oUdZ]

I've had enough! If we don't trade Rich, and Redden for top 20 picks I'm going to get mad. How long are those blokes allowed to be on our list for? Rich is useless... he peaked after 5 AFL games FFS. He isn't an AFL player and is soft... Doesn't have an AFL brain and lacks work rate to cover for that weakness. Could stil lget us a top 20 pick. Redden is another.... his only strength is that he a decent tackler... FFs he is useless at getting the ball first.

Will gladly take Redden off your hands could use somebody that actually knows how to tackle

 

[STrAng3C1oUdZ]

Funny. I've heard something similiar but thought it was BS earlier in the year. Wouldn't be totally against the idea if we don't land Walker and Dixon. Has been playing well in the SANFL from my sources.

Correct didnt play this week as was an emergency but kicked 5 the week before, could also see you guys making a play at Schultz from Port he is out of contract and rumor is he is seeking a bigger pay day could be a good stop gap for a couple of years

 

[lionsfan85]

Only time i barrack for gold coast was last night 2 pts better then none .

 

[CarterS]

What's the point of beating the Suns and Blues and missing out on either of Schache and Wietering?

Because we don't want to tank.

 

[Big Lion]

Because we don't want to tank.

Two cheap wins will mean nothing in 2 years time. Would rather the number one pick myself. Honourable loss would be nice.

The Afl should really look at a lotto system for the bottom 4, tanking and barracking for a loss would then for the most part be a none issue.

 

[WA Lion]

Two cheap wins will mean nothing in 2 years time. Would rather the number one pick myself. Honourable loss would be nice.

The Afl should really look at a lotto system for the bottom 4, tanking and barracking for a loss would then for the most part be a none issue.

To be honest I think the point is mute, as I can't see us beating GC, which will pretty much lock us in for a bottom 2 finish. Suns have more winnable games remaining then we do as well.
Carlton I think will decide the spoon, and I'm tipping we absolutely belt them for some reason (don't ask me why!)

 

[Hysteria25]

Is anyone worried that if we finish 17th and Carlton finish 18th, we might get screwed over significantly with the Aish trade? If the rumours are true about Carlton being his preferred destination, I could see them playing hardball as they will have first pick in the pre-season draft... Similar to what we want to do to Gold Coast.


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[Bucking Beads]

Is anyone worried that if we finish 17th and Carlton finish 18th, we might get screwed over significantly with the Aish trade? If the rumours are true about Carlton being his preferred destination, I could see them playing hardball as they will have first pick in the pre-season draft... Similar to what we want to do to Gold Coast.


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I think he is headed to the PSD anyway if Carlton only offer their 2nd round pick for him.

 

[Balony_pony16]

Is anyone worried that if we finish 17th and Carlton finish 18th, we might get screwed over significantly with the Aish trade? If the rumours are true about Carlton being his preferred destination, I could see them playing hardball as they will have first pick in the pre-season draft... Similar to what we want to do to Gold Coast.


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nope... we will come last Im pretty sure. But on that point if say Dixon goes into the PSD or the GC take a cheap trade for fear of that, I would imagine that would make Carlton very comfortable to get Aish to walk into the PSD

I hope he goes to the crows