Moved Thread Buddy or Ablett Snr?

[Falcon3518]

Complete myth. Greg Williams (rightly) won two Brownlows and he was dirtier than Ablett ever was.

Ablett had insane expectations and a great game by anyone else was often deemed ok for him. Lockett was similar.

Yep but didn’t Williams get robbed of the 3rd Brownlow because of his grubbiness? He had a killer of a game apparently and didn’t get a vote which would’ve been enough to win it.


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[Partridge]

Yep but didn’t Williams get robbed of the 3rd Brownlow because of his grubbiness? He had a killer of a game apparently and didn’t get a vote which would’ve been enough to win it.

Yeah it wasn't for being dirty, one umpire in particular just didn't like him and told the other umpire not to give him votes even though he'd had 40+ possessions.

 

[My Tilly]

You sort of touched on Buddy’s deficiencies. Not as good at ground level nor as good in the air. He had a massive boot on him though. He kicks 60m goals with ease. I don’t know if GAS was better at it than Buddy as I didn’t see him play, was he better?

I would say Franklin kicks goals from 55-60 metres on a more consistent basis than what Ablett ever did. Ablett routinely slotted goals from 50-55 but anything further than this, he opted for torpedo punts.

 

[Sky]

Never saw Ablett Snr play to be honest but from pure statistics Ablett was the third best goal kicker of his own era while Buddy was so far ahead of other key forwards in his era that it is not funny.

That’s no excuse I never saw Ablett either and even I know he’s a top 2 player of all time alongside Matthews. Both were midfielders most their career and got 900+ and 1031 goals.

I don’t know who is third but don’t see why it can’t be Buddy to kick 1000 in the hardest era ever. I don’t think it’s Plugger or Dunstall when you got guys like Coleman, Hudson, Gaj

 

[My Tilly]

I don’t know who is third but don’t see why it can’t be Buddy to kick 1000 in the hardest era ever. I don’t think it’s Plugger or Dunstall when you got guys like Coleman, Hudson, Gaj

Not sure it's the hardest era. It is certainly the most professional era ever. Sports science has never been this good. Athletes around the world are playing until their late 30's.
The physical grind is no where close to what it was when full on contact was part and parcel of everyday sport. Past athletes working a second job during the week.
You usually spent years in the reserves developing every aspect of your game before getting a crack at VFL/AFL. These days you can get a game in your first year on a list. 18-19yr old's can be slender in build but as long as you can run fast and run all day, your safe to mix it with grown men.

 

[Sky]

Not sure it's the hardest era. It is certainly the most professional era ever. Sports science has never been this good. Athletes around the world are playing until their late 30's.
The physical grind is no where close to what it was when full on contact was part and parcel of everyday sport. Past athletes working a second job during the week.
You usually spent years in the reserves developing every aspect of your game before getting a crack at VFL/AFL. These days you can get a game in your first year on a list. 18-19yr old's can be slender in build but as long as you can run fast and run all day, your safe to mix it with grown men.

If Hawkins was a really selfish player - would he have 1000 goals right now? On 732

 

[Elmer_Judd]

Ablett Snr was probably the most naturally talented footballer I ever saw.

Unfortunately I lost so much respect for him and childhood memories giving his controversial post footy life, but just sticking to the footy criteria, definitely better than Buddy.

 

[Sky]

Ablett Snr was probably the most naturally talented footballer I ever saw.

Unfortunately I lost so much respect for him and childhood memories giving his controversial post footy life, but just sticking to the footy criteria, definitely better than Buddy.

Fevola is the best player i ever saw mate. Only cause if he wasn’t a tosser he’d have 900 goals and you take that over a midfielder like Ablett Jr any day. Plus he played in crap teams compared to Ablett Sr

 

[My Tilly]

If Hawkins was a really selfish player - would he have 1000 goals right now? On 732

Can we assume Jack Riewoldt is closing in on 1000 given he's 30 fewer assists shy than Hawkins?

I think maybe 800 goals would be a very realistic number.

 

[Falcon3518]

I think Snr is the best forward of all time, then Lockett, Buddy and Dunstal. I think that’s probably the consensus. Maybe only swap the last two around. Even you guys would agree with me here surely.


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[Falcon3518]

Can we assume Jack Riewoldt is closing in on 1000 given he's 30 fewer assists shy than Hawkins?

I think maybe 800 goals would be a very realistic number.

I reckon they are the most selfless forwards the game has seen tbh. Jack did have to change though he was a dick at the start. They are really 850+ goal forwards if they hogged it like Dunstal imo.

Hawkins vs JR is best to debate they are almost identical in stats. Idk which other two are closer in skill than them.


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[Lethality]

Franklin shouldn't be better, but somehow he is. I think it comes down to his aerobic capacity and durability. He has so many repeat efforts compared to Ablett Sr, and therefore he performs better for his side.

As a forward he is doing things that no other forward in his era can touch. 1000 goals in a career, or 100 goals in a year, won't be achieved again, which is why Buddy stands alone amongst modern day players on the all-time goalkicking ladder, despite the fact he wasn't even a genuine full-forward. At his best Franklin was a 20 touches and 5 goals player.

I liken it a bit to Alexander Ovechkin in the NHL. He doesn't have the most goals (yet) of all time, but when you consider the era he plays in, he's probably already the best scorer.

Is Franklin the best scorer the AFL has ever seen? I'd say he's in the conversation.

 

[Lethality]

That’s no excuse I never saw Ablett either and even I know he’s a top 2 player of all time alongside Matthews. Both were midfielders most their career

Matthews was, Ablett certainly wasn't.

 

[My Tilly]

I reckon they are the most selfless forwards the game has seen tbh. Jack did have to change though he was a dick at the start. They are really 850+ goal forwards if they hogged it like Dunstal imo.

Hawkins vs JR is best to debate they are almost identical in stats. Idk which other two are closer in skill than them.


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Dunstall didn't hog it. He gave off quite a lot during his time.
Carey was just as selfless as what Hawkins or Riewoldt are. We get so adorned by the new and ultimately forget the past.
And for pure skills for a big man (194cm/100kg), Carey is a level above Hawkins.

 

[RUNVS]

Also if you had an 18 year old Buddy and an 18 year old GAS lined up and you had to pick one of them for the 2023 season and beyond I think Buddy would be the much better option. Buddy is 199cm which is a great key position height. Ablett though is 185cm which is a super awkward size in the modern game. It is rare for a 185cm player or smaller to win the Coleman, in fact I wonder when was the last time it happened.

 

[Falcon3518]

Dunstall didn't hog it. He gave off quite a lot during his time.
Carey was just as selfless as what Hawkins or Riewoldt are. We get so adorned by the new and ultimately forget the past.
And for pure skills for a big man (194cm/100kg), Carey is a level above Hawkins.

I meant the gap in skill between Hawkins and Jack is the smallest I’ve seen when comparing players, not that they are the best. But yeah fair enough.


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[Sky]

I meant the gap in skill between Hawkins and Jack is the smallest I’ve seen when comparing players, not that they are the best. But yeah fair enough.


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4 years ago I would’ve said Jack Riewoldt was miles ahead of Hawkins. 4 AA’s in a row in his 30s later and it’s a lot closer for sure.

 

[Falcon3518]

4 years ago I would’ve said Jack Riewoldt was miles ahead of Hawkins. 4 AA’s in a row in his 30s later and it’s a lot closer for sure.

You can argue either way imo. longevity Hawkins and imo prime Riewoldt. 3 Coleman’s to 1 and 3 AAs to 5. Pretty much supporters this.


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[Sky]

You can argue either way imo. longevity Hawkins and imo prime Riewoldt. 3 Coleman’s to 1 and 3 AAs to 5. Pretty much supporters this.


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Hawkins first 4 years were crap but Riewoldts weren’t makes up for it I reckon.

 

[Falcon3518]

Hawkins first 4 years were crap but Riewoldts weren’t makes up for it I reckon.

You reckon they are both retiring this year. Could have Hawkins, Buddy, Riewoldt and Cotchin go all at once. Lot of greats leaving.


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[Sky]

You reckon they are both retiring this year. Could have Hawkins, Buddy, Riewoldt and Cotchin go all at once. Lot of greats leaving.


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Maybe Pendlebury, Boak, I Smith, Goldstein, Tuohy.. few WC guys. Might be the best retiring class of all time.

Rory Sloane should retire but is selfish thinking about money

 

[Art Vandelay_]

Never saw Ablett Snr play to be honest but from pure statistics Ablett was the third best goal kicker of his own era while Buddy was so far ahead of other key forwards in his era that it is not funny.

That doesn't take into account that for 3/4 of Ablett's career he was played at HFF, Wing, or even occasionally at HBF (one of the 14 goal games v Richmond had him kick 9 in a half off HBF).

In the period where he was permanent FF. (93-96). In that time he won 3 Coleman medals and kicked 444 goals in 81 games @ 5.5 goals per game. Higher than the average of Dunstall and Lockett. Albeit yes both had seasons that were comparable.

The point is that he managed to tick over the 1000 mark despite playing in less potent scoring positions for the first 8-10 years of his career, so being within touching distance of their career tally's is a fair effort, and after all he is the only out of himself, Dunstall, Locket and Carey to make TOTC.

 

[Falcon3518]

Maybe Pendlebury, Boak, I Smith, Goldstein, Tuohy.. few WC guys. Might be the best retiring class of all time.

Rory Sloane should retire but is selfish thinking about money

This reminds me. Idk if you guys on here know what the Madden Medal is but it’s awarded to the player who the AFL consider has had the best career of the retiring class. Selwood should win 2022, Betts got 2021 and GAJ 2020.

Will be tough if all these guys retire, but if Buddy does he’ll probably get it. Would make a good thread though.


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[Falcon3518]

That doesn't take into account that for 3/4 of Ablett's career he was played at HFF, Wing, or even occasionally at HBF (one of the 14 goal games v Richmond had him kick 9 in a half off HBF).

In the period where he was permanent FF. (93-96). In that time he won 3 Coleman medals and kicked 444 goals in 81 games @ 5.5 goals per game. Higher than the average of Dunstall and Lockett. Albeit yes both had seasons that were comparable.

The point is that he managed to tick over the 1000 mark despite playing in less potent scoring positions for the first 8-10 years of his career, so being within touching distance of their career tally's is a fair effort, and after all he is the only out of himself, Dunstall, Locket and Carey to make TOTC.

Yeah GAS is miles ahead of these forwards bar Lockett who is close but not as good as GAS imo. Shouldn’t be a discussion tbh. The Matthews debate with him shits me I don’t think it’s close. Physically GAS is better, played in professional era, better goal kicking, better peak.


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[My Tilly]

Yeah GAS is miles ahead of these forwards bar Lockett who is close but not as good as GAS imo. Shouldn’t be a discussion tbh. The Matthews debate with him shits me I don’t think it’s close. Physically GAS is better, played in professional era, better goal kicking, better peak.


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Matthews was a freak. I reckon he's the best of all time.
Ablett idolized him and you can see similarities in the the way both hit packs at full speed, twisting and turning on a dime.
Tough (forget the YouTube videos showing dog acts), when Matthews hit someone, he knew he was going to cop it at some time in the game and he never shirked a contest and copped plenty.
He was so good that when Hawthorn needed a spark in the forward line, he would move from the middle to forward pocket and immediately start kicking goals.

Brilliant big game performer and arguably the most consistent footballer the game has ever seen.
Absolute travesty he never won multiple Brownlow medals.