General AFL Thread

[Strahany]

One thing I will point out, is the completely abhorrent application of logic, in some cases.

You cannot use the argument "well, no other people get booed for being a shitstirrer, so it must be because of his race" whilst simultaneously ignoring the fact that no other indigenous player is booed to the same extent.

If he were booed for being a pest, then all pests would be booed. They're not.
If he were booed for being indigenous, then all indigenous individuals would be booed. They're not.

Goodes is booed because after taking (what I believe to be) an acceptable stand against a racist teenager, he extrapolated her thoughts and actions to represent the entirety of the population as a racist nation; "remember whose land your on", said Goodes. Excuse me? I've never said a bad thing towards him or any other indigenous individual, yet I'm lumped in with every other white Australian as a racist redneck.

I don't boo Goodes, nor do I endorse it; especially after seeing Milne's treatment over the years. But I completely understand why millions of people are miffed because someone so full of self-righteousness has the tenacity to be as pompously conceited as Goodes.

 

[Barrels]

Now Goodes is apparently considering retirement, which is being billed as a tragedy.

If he retires purely because of the mental health aspect, that is a tragedy, but if it's a smokescreen for his having played a year too long, or some kind of conceited, Kanye West-style need for a sideshow then no, that is not a tragedy.

FWIW, I've openly disliked Goodes as a player for years, and I don't believe that the booing is as (forgive me) black and white as either racist or not racist, but whatever your opinion on that a couple of things are simple IMO;

We have a man who - while you might think he's a sook - is affected enough to consider walking away from the game and is really struggling emotionally. Unless you feel like seeing the headline "Goodes found dead", or simply as a case of human decency, just stop.

 

[Periphery]

He didn't point out the 13 year old, he shamed the buggery out of her and made her the face of racism for the time, where, as you'd assume, the 13 year old immediately apologised and stated that she had no idea "ape" was racist, and her mother immediately went victim stating that Vicpol and staff grilled the minor individually before ejecting her, and then called for the grandmother when they finally understood "wait; she's a minor!" Goodes is then on record as saying he flash backed to being bullied at school and it wa snot what was said because he has been called an ape or monkey before, but it was because it was the 13 year old girl who had said it.

So basiclaly she was racist and he was ageist? But it's ok because she shot first?

She was the face of racism exactly because she didn't know she was being racist. She is a symptom of just how racist Australia is and just how blind it is to it as an issue.

I don't even know what point you are trying to make talking about ageism but, comparing the two in this situation is ridiculous.

One thing I will point out, is the completely abhorrent application of logic, in some cases.

You cannot use the argument "well, no other people get booed for being a shitstirrer, so it must be because of his race" whilst simultaneously ignoring the fact that no other indigenous player is booed to the same extent.

If he were booed for being a pest, then all pests would be booed. They're not.
If he were booed for being indigenous, then all indigenous individuals would be booed. They're not.

Goodes is booed because after taking (what I believe to be) an acceptable stand against a racist teenager, he extrapolated her thoughts and actions to represent the entirety of the population as a racist nation; "remember whose land your on", said Goodes. Excuse me? I've never said a bad thing towards him or any other indigenous individual, yet I'm lumped in with every other white Australian as a racist redneck.

I don't boo Goodes, nor do I endorse it; especially after seeing Milne's treatment over the years. But I completely understand why millions of people are miffed because someone so full of self-righteousness has the tenacity to be as pompously conceited as Goodes.

Except you seem to be willfully ignoring statements like:

The reason we dont see the other indigenous players is because the others have not been as culturally vocal and critical like Goodes.

All he's doing is pointing out a problem when people would prefer him to stay quiet and not rock the boat. People have a problem with Goodes because he's pointing out a structural problem in this country and that makes a lot of people very uncomfortable. You do it right here in your post when you complained about being "lumped in with every other white Australian" and then talk about how he's being self-righteous and conceited. Instead of accepting that this country has a problem you just deflect the blame back onto the victim.

Do you really think that 13 yer old girl is the only time Goodes has encountered racism in his life?

Whether you like it or not, you are apart of Australia's racist problem because you are a member of Australian society. Even people that aren't racist have a role to play in this but at the moment all you (and others on here) are doing is making excuses for other people that allows racism to continue in one of its many forms.

 

[Defacto]

Agree with it or not as you choose, but this is a really interesting perspective...

http://theblacksteamtrain.blogspot.com.au/2014/08/adam-goodes-ensuring-racism-as-sport.html?m=1

Biggest load of shite I have ever read. Makes susie obrien, Erin Riley, rita and bolt look moderate and intelligent

 

[Defacto]

She was the face of racism exactly because she didn't know she was being racist. She is a symptom of just how racist Australia is and just how blind it is to it as an issue.

She knew

 

[Defacto]

An Eagles supporter I know claimed people boo because he's a dirty player that plays for free kicks.

Checked his suspension record. 2 games missed from two citing over what a 16 year career. Under the new rules they'd probably be fines. I don't think he is a dirty player but beau waters has missed more game. A much loved son of their club. So there goes that reason

As for playing for free kicks I pointed out that cox was doing this in almost every passage of play he was involved in for his last two season. Also shuey is a master at it. His response was a YouTube video of Goodes putting mayo on head high contact. Funny thing is another Eagles supporter then pointed out it looked like what darling has been doing regularly for the last 2-3 seasons. So there goes that reason

So what is the real reason people don't like him?

 

[gilbert the best]

boo goodes booo, this is not a racist thing, the man is not liked by many people, and its all his own doing, how come all the other 170 dark players don't get booed. political correct doogooders trying to force there views on everybody else are ruining this country. anybody who thinks this is purely racial need to open there eyes a bit more, besides the young girl, the sliding into players legs, changing the name of Australia day ect, he should take a leaf out of cathy freemans book. a true champion and humble as well.

 

[sverik25]

I don't think any of us want to discourage Goodes for taking a stand against what is a big problem in today's society.

However, I think many people took exception to his actions when he received the Australian of the Year award and proceeded to vehemently criticise many aspects of Australian society, and no doubt people disliked the generalisations he made, and he has in my opinion inadvertently fostered a divided country based on racial issues rather than a united one. He could have conducted his campaign in a more positive rather than negative manner I reckon.

When you combine this with many fans unfavourable on-field views on him as someone who milks contact for frees etc. then you can understand why a lot of people would boo him. For the majority I don't believe it is a racist issue. I am not in any way condoning their actions - really the booing has to stop because of the impact it is having on Goodes - but I cannot believe that most people choose to boo Goodes simply because he is Aboriginal.

 

[Periphery]

boo goodes booo, this is not a racist thing, the man is not liked by many people, and its all his own doing, how come all the other 170 dark players don't get booed. political correct doogooders trying to force there views on everybody else are ruining this country. anybody who thinks this is purely racial need to open there eyes a bit more, besides the young girl, the sliding into players legs, changing the name of Australia day ect, he should take a leaf out of cathy freemans book. a true champion and humble as well.

Once again we have a person that just wants Goodes to shutup and know his place in Australian society. Congratulations on being part of the problem.

 

[gilbert the best]

Once again we have a person that just wants Goodes to shutup and know his place in Australian society. Congratulations on being part of the problem.

do you agree Australia day should be changed to invasion day to quote adam goodes. see what I mean about he bought in on himself. he is entitled to his opinion, and im entitled to boo.

 

[Barrels]

Biggest load of shite I have ever read. Makes susie obrien, Erin Riley, rita and bolt look moderate and intelligent

Not interesting for what it says as much as who wrote it.

There's no such thing as a homogenous view, despite what the mainstream media would have us all believe.

Besides, Rita's a saint!

 

[IllBeTheJudge]

I think the constant booing is ridiculous, childish, and needs to stop. Nothing he has done on the field deserves the level and constant amount of attention he is getting from the crowd. Nothing off the field has either.

Do I believe it is racially motivated? Generally, no. I still believe that most people are doing out of acts he has done on the field (such as the sliding as highlighted previously), or are now doing it as part of a pack mentality and hey it's creating media headlines (how good am I?! I booed this bloke and now it's a headline! Yay me!). Though it's easy to see that people that do want to boo out of racial motivation now have a platform and shield to hide behind.

People say that his war dance, and Jetta's has the chance to incite crowd violence. If Goodes was playing for a Melbourne based club, where the away crowd is not 99-1 against and the opposition supporters were all (ok not all, but a lot) constantly booing, now THAT could incite crowd violence.

Paul Roos said the other night on AFL360 that if Goodes considers it a racist taunt, then it is racist (and he has said something similar previously). I can't agree with this line of thinking as then where do you draw that blurry line? If I scratch my nose and Goodes thinks that's racist, then it's racist? If that was the case, then surely everyone enjoys that privilege, and if I considered the war dances to be racist, then they were racist towards me. Thankfully, I don't follow this line of thinking.

Having said that, if Goodes feels as though the booing has racist overtones, then that has to come into consideration, ie. you have to take his personal feelings into account, and just have some common decency about the whole thing. I can't put a number on how many opposition supporters are booing him. 5,000? 10,000? Imagine showing up somewhere every second week and having 10,000 people boo your every move for 3 solid hours. And then jumping on a forum afterwards and continuing the vitriol. It's basically bullying.

I agree with everyone saying that other "dirty acts" have not received as much attention. Baker is a prime example.

Yes Goodes used his AOTY award as a vehicle to put forward his views about past atrocities (and I don't use that term lightly) and present disadvantages and mistreatment of Aboriginal people. But it is partly his work with the indigenous community that won him the award in the first place. It would be negligent of him not to use his standing as AOTY to put across these views, and help bring them to light.

As for the 13 year old girl, I feel at the time it could have been handled better. But to Goodes credit, once the heat had been taken out of the moment, he actually supported her and wanted her educated, as opposed to throwing her under a bus. It's the media that (mostly) did that. Saying you boo because he pointed out a young girl for her racist taunt, you are just fueling the "it's a racist boo" argument.

It's well and truly past the point of being embarrassing, as footy fans, as Australians, and there is no viable justification for it that the booers can put forward.

Should Goodes take the field again and the booing continues, what can the players do? The biggest thing in their power is a mass walk off, both teams. That would be a sad day.

 

[Half Back Pocket]

I would genuinely hope that our supporters refrain from Booing him in Rnd 22.

I will certainly be asking any "Boo-ers" near my seats to stop!

 

[Rors]

Now Goodes is apparently considering retirement, which is being billed as a tragedy.

If he retires purely because of the mental health aspect, that is a tragedy, but if it's a smokescreen for his having played a year too long, or some kind of conceited, Kanye West-style need for a sideshow then no, that is not a tragedy.

FWIW, I've openly disliked Goodes as a player for years, and I don't believe that the booing is as (forgive me) black and white as either racist or not racist, but whatever your opinion on that a couple of things are simple IMO;

We have a man who - while you might think he's a sook - is affected enough to consider walking away from the game and is really struggling emotionally. Unless you feel like seeing the headline "Goodes found dead", or simply as a case of human decency, just stop.

Stephen Milne must just shake his head in disbelief at the way the AFL has jumped all over this to protect their man in all of this....

 

[IllBeTheJudge]

do you agree Australia day should be changed to invasion day to quote adam goodes. see what I mean about he bought in on himself. he is entitled to his opinion, and im entitled to boo.

No, you're not entitled to boo. That amounts to bullying. If someone was hassling you every time they saw you based on something that is your opinion, name calling you, heckling you, booing you, that would be bullying also.

You could always try going up to Sydney and sitting in a vastly pro Sydney crowd and booing him. See how entitled you feel then.

 

[IllBeTheJudge]

Stephen Milne must just shake his head in disbelief at the way the AFL has jumped all over this to protect their man in all of this....

There was a public plea to stop the same sort of thing happening to Milne. Personally I don't think what Milne copped was to the same level, and not in the same numbers (of supporters)

 

[Rors]

There was a public plea to stop the same sort of thing happening to Milne. Personally I don't think what Milne copped was to the same level, and not in the same numbers (of supporters)

You obviously never went to a Collingwood home game at the MCG then..... 60,000 people chanting "Milne is a rapist" is one of the most disgusting & disturbing things ive ever witnessed in my life. It truly made me feel sick to the stomach

 

[crasha301]

Imagine if goodes had of played in the 80s early 90s. He wouldn't have lasted a season if booing gets him this upset.

We have come a long way since then. There will always be rascim thats a fact, nothing we do will rid it all.

Stop booing the sook and lets move on.

 

[IllBeTheJudge]

You obviously never went to a Collingwood home game at the MCG then..... 60,000 people chanting "Milne is a rapist" is one of the most disgusting & disturbing things ive ever witnessed in my life. It truly made me feel sick to the stomach

No doubt. However, one does not justify the other

 

[Simple Jack]

You know the worst part about this? The absolutely ridiculous suggestion that keeps getting repeated that:
If anyone considers something as racist, it's racist. It's complete horseshit and it belittles the suffering of people actually subjected to racism.

If say Eddie Betts punched some opposition player Barry Hall style and then was repeatedly booed and said "I'm offended by the booing and consider it racist" THAT DOES NOT ******* MAKE IT RACIST. And now the media are focusing on this stupid thing instead of actual racial issues like disproportionate imprisonment, job opportunities, life expectancy, job opportunities etc.

My mother is coloured and lived in South Africa during Apartheid. Her brothers and sisters and parents (stepfather) who she lived with were black. She has been subjected to actual, real, important racism not this SJW media bullshit. She is disgusted by the whole situation but not at the people booing, at the way Goodes goes out of his way to divide rather than unite and how quickly he jumps to play the race card on issues like this. Especially considering he personally has had a more privileged life than the majority of people of any race in the country.

I defer to her significantly more informed judgement.

 

[Winmar2Lockett]

Stephen Milne must just shake his head in disbelief at the way the AFL has jumped all over this to protect their man in all of this....

I had this discussion with someone yesterday... I hated what Milney was put through, it was disgusting & the AFL should have done something about it (the fact that they allowed Malthouse to encourage it was worse than the muppets chanting). I think the AFL put the Milney abuse in the too hard basket....after all it was a legal issue that had to run it's course.

I don't like the onfield habits that Goodes has developed over the past few years and it is sad that his footy legacy will now be one of a champion player who got away with cheap shots (for years unpunished by the tribunal) and faking for frees, etc.

What he should be totally respected for is his work with the Indigenous community...and that is why anyone who claims their booing is because of the Aus of the Year Award or the issue with the 13 year old is doing so (booing) due to issues with race. They can jump up & down & carry on about it but it's a clear issue that they have with Goodes standing up against all the racist crap that he & his people have suffered for years.

I think the AFL is a significantly different beast under Gil than it was under Vlad. Gil's leadership so far has really met some dicey issues head on whereas Vlad would only worry about things if they effected the bottom line.

 

[Periphery]

do you agree Australia day should be changed to invasion day to quote adam goodes. see what I mean about he bought in on himself. he is entitled to his opinion, and im entitled to boo.

Looks like you also don't really understand Australian history either.

 

[IllBeTheJudge]

You know the worst part about this? The absolutely ridiculous suggestion that keeps getting repeated that:
If anyone considers something as racist, it's racist. It's complete horseshit and it belittles the suffering of people actually subjected to racism.

If say Eddie Betts punched some opposition player Barry Hall style and then was repeatedly booed and said "I'm offended by the booing and consider it racist" THAT DOES NOT ******* MAKE IT RACIST.

I agree with the principal of this, as my previous post attests to. But you still have to take the man's feelings into account.

If you say something to someone and it offends them, even if you didn't mean anything by it, do you say get stuffed and keep doing it? Or do you say sorry and not continue doing it?

 

[Rors]

Just to put Adam Goodes' perspective under the spotlight for a moment....

Nick Riewoldt gets booed at just about every away game we play.... What if Nick chose to interpret that as people hating his German heritage?

Akermanis used to get booed - his red hair & loud mouth?

Lance Franklin always gets booed - is it because he's a gun with an arrogant strut which puts people offside or the colour of his skin? I definitely say its the arrogant strut

People boo for a whole range of reasons.... personally, I think people boo Adam Goodes now because they know it pisses him off & gets to him. If thats racist, then Adam Goodes is racist for assuming that all white people in the crowd are booing him because he's black, and that simply IS NOT THE CASE!

 

[Periphery]

You know the worst part about this? The absolutely ridiculous suggestion that keeps getting repeated that:
If anyone considers something as racist, it's racist. It's complete horseshit and it belittles the suffering of people actually subjected to racism.

If say Eddie Betts punched some opposition player Barry Hall style and then was repeatedly booed and said "I'm offended by the booing and consider it racist" THAT DOES NOT ******* MAKE IT RACIST. And now the media are focusing on this stupid thing instead of actual racial issues like disproportionate imprisonment, job opportunities, life expectancy, job opportunities etc.

My mother is coloured and lived in South Africa during Apartheid. Her brothers and sisters and parents (stepfather) who she lived with were black. She has been subjected to actual, real, important racism not this SJW media bullshit. She is disgusted by the whole situation but not at the people booing, at the way Goodes goes out of his way to divide rather than unite and how quickly he jumps to play the race card on issues like this. Especially considering he personally has had a more privileged life than the majority of people of any race in the country.

I defer to her significantly more informed judgement.

You can't discount one persons experience because someone else had a 'worse' but similar experience. Using that logic: because your mum wasn't hung from a tree she wasn't the target of 'real' racism and her experience doesn't count. It just doesn't work that way. You can't measure the amount of hurt inflicted upon someone according to some arbitrary scale of ever increasing badness.

Goodes hasn't tried to divide anyone. All he's done is point out a few inconvenient facts about the country and social issues. Instead of looking inwards at itself white Australia is having a breakdown and is blaming the victim.

Also, don't use the term 'SJW' if you want to be taken seriously in any way.