Draft Watcher Knightmare's 2013 phantom draft

[NUFC Tiger]

#50 Richmond – Sam Lloyd (VIC – Fwd)
Height: 180cm, Weight: 83kg, DOB: 03/03/1990
Recruited from: Frankston
Style:
Player comparison:
Range: Late - undrafted
Profile: Lloyd is a small marking mature age forward. He’s had a strong season in the VFL but is more a component of a forwardline who can play a role.

Great write ups as usual Knightmare - kudos for tipping Lloyd to end up at Richmond (taken at 66)

A few folk on our board claiming he and Gordon may be used as defensive small forwards given Nahas and White have moved on and King has had his share of injuries along with Knights. Should give King and Azza Edwards as well as younger guys like McDonough and O'Hanlon (plus now Lennon) some competition for spots in our forwardline.

 

[swansfan51]

KM after we drafted Aliir I put up my thoughts on him here. Do you generally agree/disagree?

http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/welcome-to-the-swans-aliir-aliir.1041942/page-2#post-31024772

 

[tenderwarrior]

Knightmare I would be keen for your thoughts on Port selecting Harvey- moreso as they selected Shaw last year who was highly rated by some, and of course have Butcher waiting in the wings.

How do you see those three? I am especially interested in your comparisons between Shaw and Harvey.

 

[Defacto]

great work Knightmare

cant wait to see your rookie picks and then next years thread!!!

 

[fronkalicious]

Knightmare I would be keen for your thoughts on Port selecting Harvey- moreso as they selected Shaw last year who was highly rated by some, and of course have Butcher waiting in the wings.

How do you see those three? I am especially interested in your comparisons between Shaw and Harvey.

How did shaw go this season at sanfl level tender??

 

[wilbur_15]

How did shaw go this season at sanfl level tender??

Pretty well I think all things considered.

Was playing for one of the poorer quality (in many ways) SANFL teams, South Adelaide, who had a highly paid interstate KPF recruit playing league for them as competition for his spot. Shaw started off in the SANFL reserves and immediately did well kicking consistent bags of goals (2-4 kind of thing) and providing a good target. Got promoted mid season and did ok in the league side but didn't get as many goals and less influence all round. Still was written up decently by our AFL development guys in their weekly column. Was dropped back to reserves and I think played another league game or two at the end of the year. Over the year, he wasn't helped by a particularly wet winter which turned Noarlunga Oval and many other suburban grounds into bogs which screwed him a fair bit, especially with South mainly losing anyway. Think we were pretty happy with his progress.

On a side note, most every Port supporter is stoked that all our remaining AFL squad will play together each week in the Magpies in the SANFL next year, so hoping for turbo charged development in Shaw and others.

 

[Knightmare]

Knightmare, what is your opinion on Cameron Conlon? Watching his highlights would make you giddy if your club picked him up. Do you see him as a superior talent to McCarthy?

Conlon doesn't excite me. It was a very small sample size. The first two games of 2012 were excellent with the rest ok but not great.

He's a chance as a rookie but I like the talent of McCarthy much more. He's just not in a great situation on that GWS list with their unnecessary depth of key forwards so he'll likely be a trade target two or three years from now.

 

[Knightmare]

Well done Knightmare on your draft for this year. I can't wait to see your 2014 version when it comes out. How do you think the Hawks done I would rate them an A+. They drafted speed and skill for the midfield after all We do have an ageing midfield. And I really think we can get Garlett sorted out with the culture that we have down at the club. Thanks again Knightmare and I can't wait to see next year's phantom draft.

I had a 2014 version out some weeks ago as part of this thread but when I extended my list of draft prospects and bios for a few more posts I had to remove it.

Some time either after the rookie draft or in December I'll likely post my 2014 draft.

Thoughts on Lang at 16?

It's earlier than I would have taken him but in saying that it's not a huge, hugh rise from the second round where he was mostly expected to go and may be an ok selection. As a Geelong Falcons boy I'm sure Geelong have a better idea of his game than probably any other club in this draft and had he played the full season I'm sure more of us would have had him closer to or inside our first rounds.

He has the opportunity to become a handy inside player. Hard and excellent inside distributor by hand and has some athleticism to him. So he's got a chance to make it but with Acres available it's curious that Geelong didn't go with the guy with a better rounded game and more size.

Yeah I assume most will say that. Jansen didn't even make KM draft list and we took him at 36. The Cats certainly are independent in their selections. I wonder if Lang would of been there at 36?

Jansen was boarderline inside/outside my rankings throughout. He's a big body and tall and moves well which is a great start but I really haven't liked his hands or reflexes in close. He's just not a natural inside player and it's something you just have to hope in Geelong's strong program can be ironed out. Perhaps on a back flank he could be effective at his size and maybe this was Geelong's vision but as a midfielder his game doesn't leave me with a great deal of confidence.

So KM when's your 2014 Phantom?

It was up some time ago but took it down again to accomodate more 2013 draft profiles as bigfooty simply doesn't allow posts as large as I'd like. Some time either after the rookie draft or some time later in December I may post it up.

Great write ups as usual Knightmare - kudos for tipping Lloyd to end up at Richmond (taken at 66)

A few folk on our board claiming he and Gordon may be used as defensive small forwards given Nahas and White have moved on and King has had his share of injuries along with Knights. Should give King and Azza Edwards as well as younger guys like McDonough and O'Hanlon (plus now Lennon) some competition for spots in our forwardline.

Sam Lloyd may be more that defensive forward.

Nathan Gordon is more of a tall half forward who will find it up the ground but also post a marking threat up forward.

Some development will be needed with those young Richmond forwards but if one or two come through it will help with that front half beyond Riewoldt lacking star power.

 

[TheLastEmperor]

Yup well done KM, very accurate in the end and thanks for all the work leading up to the draft. Without the benefit of hindsite, winners and loser in your opinion?

 

[bombermick]

Conlon doesn't excite me. It was a very small sample size. The first two games of 2012 were excellent with the rest ok but not great.

He's a chance as a rookie but I like the talent of McCarthy much more. He's just not in a great situation on that GWS list with their unnecessary depth of key forwards so he'll likely be a trade target two or three years from now.

Cheers. Your response shows the danger of rating players by looking at highlights, because those highlights from his 2012 matches made me think of a young Tippett with a much larger spring.

 

[Knightmare]

KM after we drafted Aliir I put up my thoughts on him here. Do you generally agree/disagree?

http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/welcome-to-the-swans-aliir-aliir.1041942/page-2#post-31024772

I'm not as optimistic in Aliir as a prospect.

He's an athlete and very much a development program. Good guy and will put in the work which is the positive with him and he's got closing speed.

1v1, reading it in the air and reading the drop of the ball it's as bad as you'll see for a key defender.

Football just isn't his natural game and it's a real wish and hope selection.

If I were Sydney I'd just convert Sam Reid into a key defender with his development in recent seasons not there and Franklin/Tippett/Pyke all clearly better key forwards.

Knightmare I would be keen for your thoughts on Port selecting Harvey- moreso as they selected Shaw last year who was highly rated by some, and of course have Butcher waiting in the wings.

How do you see those three? I am especially interested in your comparisons between Shaw and Harvey.

Harvey is a solid selection.

All three are ok prospects but lack the talent to be as good as Jay Schulz.

Any of the three could be a passable second/third option up forward but ideally I'd be looking for better quality talents.

Of the three John Butcher is the better talent but just hasn't come along as expected. Not a whole lot in it between the three with all of them relatively similar level talents.

Between Shaw and Harvey. Shaw I feel is probably the better marking target and presence closer to goal as well as the guy who will provide more scoreboard pressure. Harvey has the better rounded game of the two with his skills by position excellent and probably a better mix of marking and ability at ground level. Shaw with the extra height is probably the pick of the two but all three relatively are similar level talents.

 

[Knightmare]

Yup well done KM, very accurate in the end and thanks for all the work leading up to the draft. Without the benefit of hindsite, winners and loser in your opinion?

Looking at my power rankings I'll have to go with St Kilda as the winner. Loved all their picks. Billings, Dunstan and Acres all absolutely excellent choices.
Brisbane also did very well. Aish and Taylor incredibly impressive selections with Gardiner at 22 also a good get. Robertson and Cutler have nice potential and were astute gets also.
North Melbourne with McDonald at 8 locked in as a Father Son selection was already good but getting Dumont also was excellent.
Collingwood did well with Marsh with that final selection. Langdon I also like late and Scharenberg early is a strong get.

Fremantle's draft I didn't like. Apeness and Pearce with those first two selections I don't think will answer their long term KPP problems.
GWS I wasn't a huge wrap for with McCarthy as a KPP unnecessary and Kelly in my view not the second best talent in this draft.
Gold Coast I feel jumped the gun with Leslie at 20.
Geelong I'm also not a big wrap for this year and I feel this may have been one of their relatively off years as dangerous as that is to say about the best recruiters in the business.
Carlton's combination of selections didn't do it for me either with Cripps, Giles and Holman not guys I would have taken at their selections.

I'll write up something more detailed probably some time after the rookie draft when I can put some minutes together.

Cheers. Your response shows the danger of rating players by looking at highlights, because those highlights from his 2012 matches made me think of a young Tippett with a much larger spring.

Keep in mind with Conlon that he never had more than 5 marks in a game. Worth checking out the stats also: http://www.sportingpulse.com/team_i...=1-3020-111703-150804-14534646&ocompID=206344

Not a whole lot to be inspired about other than those first two games.

Conlon is a rookie chance but he's someone I'd ultimately like to see come back to the TAC next year and see how he stacks up against next years crop of quality talls and to see whether he has improved or added anything to his game as he's been out a long time and it's hard to gauge exactly where he's at having spent so much time on the sidelines.

 

[Thurlow2Mackie]

Geelong I'm also not a big wrap for this year and I feel this may have been one of their relatively off years as dangerous as that is to say about the best recruiters in the business.

#StandByWells

Bigfooty PDers would probably say that about Geelong's recruiting every year. Wells continues to find good players who go under the radar. And of course, JK at 41. What a bargain

 

[Kramer1]

Carlton's combination of selections didn't do it for me either with Cripps, Giles and Holman not guys I would have taken at their selections.

Very mixed responses to Carlton's draft it seems.

Find this a bit odd in that you had us taking Thorp and Cain for much of the lead-in...are Giles and Holman really that different in playing style?

 

[Knightmare]

#StandByWells

Bigfooty PDers would probably say that about Geelong's recruiting every year. Wells continues to find good players who go under the radar. And of course, JK at 41. What a bargain

Each year is a different year.

I rated Geelong in 2009 and 2010 as clear winners of the draft.

This year isn't the absolute worst of all clubs. That award is reserved to Fremantle this year but neither is it a strong draft by Geelong as what I'd describe by Geelong standards as below average.

Very mixed responses to Carlton's draft it seems.

Find this a bit odd in that you had us taking Thorp and Cain for much of the lead-in...are Giles and Holman really that different in playing style?

Giles is a handy rebounding tall defender but lacking a defensive side to his game.

Holman is a relatively productive hard inside midfielder who has performed to a relatively strong standard but not great by foot and lacking an x-factor.

Carlton with many of the better players at advanced ages really need more developed prospects or players who can help more immediately with Judd, Waite, Carrazzo, Scotland, Simpson and McLean all nearing the end.

It's not a deep draft and with Carlton needing a more immediate boost mature agers might have been better.

It all comes down to who you rate at the various selections.
An alternative combination that could have been looked at is: Acres, Fuller and Thorp. It still gets you your strong bodied taller midfielder early but then also adds a ready to go damaging weapon of a ball user and a ready to go tall forward.

 

[timtamWB]

Knightmare what do you think of the Dogs draft? I think it has potential, Bontempelli at 4 is obvious why, Honeychurch is a good get at 60. Fuller at 42 fills a need and should play round 1.

 

[Thurlow2Mackie]

Each year is a different year.

I rated Geelong in 2009 and 2010 as clear winners of the draft.

This year isn't the absolute worst of all clubs. That award is reserved to Fremantle this year but neither is it a strong draft by Geelong as what I'd describe by Geelong standards as below average.

Fremantle only had late picks and one first rounder, so not surprising they didn't grab any big names. Thought Grey was a good get at 57 or 58, Pearce was surprising at 38, but there aren't many talls with his running ability, plus he has some skills to work with.

Only time will tell how good the recruiting was. Way too early to call it yet. Players that look like guns at junior have turned out to be ordinary at senior level, and vice versa.

 

[Knightmare]

Knightmare what do you think of the Dogs draft? I think it has potential, Bontempelli at 4 is obvious why, Honeychurch is a good get at 60. Fuller at 42 fills a need and should play round 1.

It's a pass mark for the Dogs but I wouldn't say a winner either.

Bontempelli is a risk early. Some other better performed players early so probably not a risk I would take but I don't mind him either.

Fuller at 42 is a good get and can play a role as a kicking specialist.

Honeychurch feels like more of the same as another small pure midfielder. Having Hrovat already it's a puzzling selection. But I like his game and late draft is someone who at least will be good at VFL level as someone with a real hardness and strong inside game for a little guy.

 

[saintsrfreak]

Who would you have chosen at #2 KM?

 

[Knightmare]

Who would you have chosen at #2 KM?

In GWS' situation understanding Acres would be available at 14 Aish would have been my selection at 2 with Billings the other strong consideration.

Kelly just isn't a need with Whitfield basically the same thing.

 

[Tex200]

Knightmare - thoughts on the Crows draft? Our board is turning cartwheels at getting Crouch - I'm a little more circumspect. Happy with Knight though

 

[Knightmare]

Knightmare - thoughts on the Crows draft? Our board is turning cartwheels at getting Crouch - I'm a little more circumspect. Happy with Knight though

Considering draft position Adelaide did well.

Crouch while few on bigfooty seem fans I feel is one of the better midfielders in this draft. He would have been my selection as the highest rated in my power rankings. His game isn't perfect and there are some personalty questions but to me he's just a hard at it midfielder who wins it with the best of them and can be an effective component of a midfield. He's got the proven production on the board and in the 20s is an excellent value selection.
He's not his brother. Not nearly as explosive and not as damaging by foot but his ball winning is right up there with him.

Knight I don't mind mid draft. Capable midfielder and he can push forward and be effective so he's another solid choice.

Relatively speaking Adelaide considering draft position are a winner but with a relatively strong on-ball unit they're not necessarily make Adelaide that much better next year and M.Crouch particularly will more likely once Thompson retires find a regular position in that midfield.

 

[saintsrfreak]

In GWS' situation understanding Acres would be available at 14 Aish would have been my selection at 2 with Billings the other strong consideration.

Kelly just isn't a need with Whitfield basically the same thing.

So you do actually rate Acres as the second best prospect available in the draft?

 

[cotter101]

So you do actually rate Acres as the second best prospect available in the draft?

I don't think that's what he was saying...

 

[saintsrfreak]

I don't think that's what he was saying...

He has Acres at 4th on his power rankings, behind only Boyd when it comes to eligible draftees, so I don't think it was the wildest assumption?