List Mgmt. List Management - 2015 Contract News

[TheMcManusNose]

People are already saying Peel is already top heavy with KPP's which means are depth is already top heavy. We do need top end talent, but that is hard to find especially when you are a top 4 team so we just have to build KPP depth and hope to pick up a KPP via free agent or trade.

Peel has been 'top heavy' because of the excess of Rucks, not really KPFs/KPDs. That was mainly last year when you had Hannath, Griffin, Apeness and occasionally Moller in the same team. And that's not something that i'd criticise the club for, in fact I think that depth is necessary given Sandi's age.

The problem with listing off these talls and saying 'our depth is fine' is that there is, as you say, no genuine quality there. We're either trying to turn rucks into KPFs (which is not easy - look at the flak Clarke cops and he's probably the best suited to it) or banking on 100% of these guys to make it (simply not going to happen with late and rookie picks, Tanner and Vandaleur are already cooked I reckon).

It's even worse when you start thinking about medium forwards and defenders. Who can we look to to play the Johnno/Ibbo (neither is young) role? What about Mayne?

Which is why I agree with this strategy in addition to throwing the FA cash around:

I agree, but the club hasn't tried very hard to actually draft many KPPs. If our drafting history shows anything, it shows that it's very possible to get good mids and small forwards with lower draft picks, but almost impossible to get good KPPs with picks lower than 20. A smart strategy at this point would be to bite the bullet and take the best KPP available with our first pick in the next 2-3 years, and then take mids with our later picks.

Weller over Lever gave me the shits a bit but Weller and Blakely certainly look the goods (Langdon too IMO). Our midfield is set. Let's change our strategy with respect to KPPs, because this one hasn't worked so far.

 

[UFO Tatsu]

When Clarke signs I will be much more comfortable. At this point it feel like three years or trade.

I would give him three years but that is just me.

Then again, I would give Hannath 5 years

 

[ydraw]

KPD in 3 years - Dawson(32), A Pearce (23), Silvagni (30) - Need 1-2 KPD coming through. T Smith or Vandeleur could fill this hole.
KPF in 3 years - Taberner (24), Apeness(23),Moller (23), Hannath (26), Clarke (28).

If you think that's a list of healthy options you are kidding yourself. As a thought experiment, which of those would you fit into a team with an actually healthy list of KPPs like West Coast or Sydney or North or Hawthorn?

We are desperately short of quality talls on our list once Pavlich, McPharlin and Sandilands retire. Which will be this year probably.

 

[GriddleCakes]

Came in to read the opinion on Griffin re-signing. Haven't seen much of him but he always seemed a handy player; I thought he had been delisted. I was surprised to see them re-sign him, but I tend to agree with the general consensus that he's on the list as immediate Sandi/Clarke injury cover.

 

[go_the_dockers]

If you think that's a list of healthy options you are kidding yourself. As a thought experiment, which of those would you fit into a team with an actually healthy list of KPPs like West Coast or Sydney or North or Hawthorn?

We are desperately short of quality talls on our list once Pavlich, McPharlin and Sandilands retire. Which will be this year probably.

Dawson, Silvangni and A Pearce could probably all play in the back line, or we could just go with 2.

Taberner, Clarke should be in top for in 3 years time. Hopefully Apeness has come on a bit or we have picked up someone like Dixon.

What I am saying is we have the depth, we are missing a bit of A grade talent but that is hard to find.

If we got 1 A grade KPF we would be set for 5+ years.

 

[theGav56]

Cannot really complain about Griffin being re-signed. Decent insurance for minimal investment. We have some risks in the ruck with Sandilands aging, Clarke unsigned, Hannath unprooven, Moeller and Apeness in early stages of development.

 

[ydraw]

Dawson, Silvangni and A Pearce could probably all play in the back line, or we could just go with 2.

Taberner, Clarke should be in top for in 3 years time. Hopefully Apeness has come on a bit or we have picked up someone like Dixon.

Thanks for listing all the talls on our list again. My question was: Which of them do you think would get a game at a rival club?

 

[theGav56]

If you think that's a list of healthy options you are kidding yourself. As a thought experiment, which of those would you fit into a team with an actually healthy list of KPPs like West Coast or Sydney or North or Hawthorn?

We are desperately short of quality talls on our list once Pavlich, McPharlin and Sandilands retire. Which will be this year probably.

You simply do not get quality KPFs outside of the first round in the draft barring a miracle, and even inside the first round it is a gamble. But you can buy forwards as has been shown by the movement of Tippett, Buddy, Clark, Gunston, twinkle-toes, Dawes, etc. Same with KPDs with MacPharlin and Dawson our 1 and 2 tall lock down defenders. Good stoppers like Dawson are fine if you have quality in other areas of the backline.

Love Sandilands and it is great to have a dominant ruck, but not absolutely essential if you have a cracking midfield.

 

[MadDocker]

Probably all of them depending on the club. SCOS, Dawson, Tabs & Clarke would all easily get a game somewhere else. A Pearce is good enough to get a look in based off what we've seen so far. Apeness is a decent prospect but might be the least likely of them.

 

[TheMcManusNose]

If we got 1 A grade KPF we would be set for 5+ years.

This is where I diverge from you. If we get one A grade KPF we're back to exactly where we are now in a year. 1 injury away from losing 2-3 goals/game. 1 injury away from having to play a ruck or Tabs (a serviceable 2nd tall) as a #1KPF.

I would desperately like this club to not tread water on the KPF front. I would like to see us try to get a KPF who can ruck as well, eliminating the need to play 2 rucks. I would like to see us pick up a couple of natural medium forwards around the 190 mark, ala Darling, Stringer, Gunston. Get some real scoring power in without losing all of our forward pressure. If we did that successfully, with our midfield depth, that sets us up to be dominant for years.

You simply do not get quality KPFs outside of the first round in the draft barring a miracle, and even inside the first round it is a gamble. But you can buy forwards as has been shown by the movement of Tippett, Buddy, Clark, Gunston, twinkle-toes, Dawes, etc.

We've tried this. It hasn't worked. We should keep trying it. But we need to look at other avenues.

 

[UFO Tatsu]

This is where I diverge from you. If we get one A grade KPF we're back to exactly where we are now in a year. 1 injury away from losing 2-3 goals/game. 1 injury away from having to play a ruck or Tabs (a serviceable 2nd tall) as a #1KPF.

I would desperately like this club to not tread water on the KPF front. I would like to see us try to get a KPF who can ruck as well, eliminating the need to play 2 rucks. I would like to see us pick up a couple of natural medium forwards around the 190 mark, ala Darling, Stringer, Gunston. Get some real scoring power in without losing all of our forward pressure. If we did that successfully, with our midfield depth, that sets us up to be dominant for years.



We've tried this. It hasn't worked. We should keep trying it. But we need to look at other avenues.

Not asking for much are we?

 

[youmewe]

They wouldn't do anything for Hogan. Don't know why people bother until he's out of contract. They'll ask for Fyfe ATM.

Bondy would never go for that ... he'd insist they take Hill and Neale as well.

 

[TheMcManusNose]

Not asking for much are we?

Haha not at all no. Should be easy!

The main thrust of my argument is just that we need to look at going through the draft for this. Prioritise it. FA as a primary strategy hasn't worked so far and if it does in the future it just re-sets the clock a bit.

 

[rodney hoo]

Haha not at all no. Should be easy!

The main thrust of my argument is just that we need to look at going through the draft for this. Prioritise it. FA as a primary strategy hasn't worked so far and if it does in the future it just re-sets the clock a bit.

You don't think they haven't been looking, they took Appness with their first pick although I'm certain they wanted McCarthy but as usual the Giants loaded up on talls. Even first round players taller than 196cm take time, to name a few number ones of late, Patton injured, Boyd at dogs doing just ok after not getting much time at Giants. Freo need 24/25 year old KPP only way is trade and that's the difficult bit, or have patience and train your own up.
Just another example is Peter Wright went to the Suns last year at number 8 and has played one game in a side that can't win a game and I reckon if he was available at our pick we'd have taken him.

 

[ydraw]

You don't think they haven't been looking, they took Appness with their first pick although I'm certain they wanted McCarthy but as usual the Giants loaded up on talls. Even first round players taller than 196cm take time, to name a few number ones of late, Patton injured, Boyd at dogs doing just ok after not getting much time at Giants. Freo need 24/25 year old KPP only way is trade and that's the difficult bit, or have patience and train your own up.

They have passed on Paparone and Lever in the 2012 and 2014 drafts respectively in favour of midfielders who have played a total of 2 AFL games between them, one of which is no longer on our list. Paparone has played 33 AFL games and Lever already has a rising star nomination in his first season.

 

[Latro]

Paparone is s**t

 

[ydraw]

Paparone is s**t

Paparone has been excellent this year as a key defender.

 

[TheMcManusNose]

You don't think they haven't been looking, they took Appness with their first pick although I'm certain they wanted McCarthy but as usual the Giants loaded up on talls. Even first round players taller than 196cm take time, to name a few number ones of late, Patton injured, Boyd at dogs doing just ok after not getting much time at Giants. Freo need 24/25 year old KPP only way is trade and that's the difficult bit, or have patience and train your own up.
Just another example is Peter Wright went to the Suns last year at number 8 and has played one game in a side that can't win a game and I reckon if he was available at our pick we'd have taken him.

Yeah it's a fair point, personally i've not been impressed with Apeness, but hey, it's a start. They did go after Gumby as well.

To me though, the Lever thing has kind of solidified that we seem to have a strategy of ignoring need in that regard. I think if you look at a lot of other teams they will still draft at least a tall a year even though they have heaps already. The Eagles have done it (they have other unrelated draft issues), Richmond did it last year with Reece Mckenzie, Norf with Durdin and you hear rumours that Adelaide wants a KPF this year even though they have 3 in the team.

I'll stop rambling about it now but I guess the thrust is I really think we need to address that depth this year via both draft and free agency.

 

[rodney hoo]

They have passed on Paparone and Lever in the 2012 and 2014 drafts respectively in favour of midfielders who have played a total of 2 AFL games between them, one of which is no longer on our list. Paparone has played 33 AFL games and Lever already has a rising star nomination in his first season.

Paparone is hardly Key forward, they have moved him to defence where he takes the third tall in a side that has struggled with injury since he has been there. Lever it's early days but I woul say Alex Pierce has got him covered. Our midfield is our strength first year player don't always get a run unless injuries. I still think Josh would have been sensational just did not work out, hawthorn had same trouble with dayle who is no longer on their list.

 

[rodney hoo]

Yeah it's a fair point, personally i've not been impressed with Apeness, but hey, it's a start. They did go after Gumby as well.

To me though, the Lever thing has kind of solidified that we seem to have a strategy of ignoring need in that regard. I think if you look at a lot of other teams they will still draft at least a tall a year even though they have heaps already. The Eagles have done it (they have other unrelated draft issues), Richmond did it last year with Reece Mckenzie, Norf with Durdin and you hear rumours that Adelaide wants a KPF this year even though they have 3 in the team.

I'll stop rambling about it now but I guess the thrust is I really think we need to address that depth this year via both draft and free agency.

I actually agree with you but GGS and GWS have taken the best over the last few years so I'm just saying it ain't that easy.

 

[Deathly]

Paparone is s**t

was*

 

[Nickos66]

There was an AFL.com.au article recently re: who are the clubs whipping boys in terms of fan opinion. Paparone was named for them. I had no idea he was such a maligned player?

 

[youmewe]

Paparone is hardly Key forward, they have moved him to defence where he takes the third tall in a side that has struggled with injury since he has been there. Lever it's early days but I woul say Alex Pierce has got him covered. Our midfield is our strength first year player don't always get a run unless injuries. I still think Josh would have been sensational just did not work out, hawthorn had same trouble with dayle who is no longer on their list.

Based on what?

Besides what's wrong with Pearce + Lever going into the future?

 

[rodney hoo]

Based on what?

Besides what's wrong with Pearce + Lever going into the future?

You get one pick in each round you can't getm all. We took tanner as well still could come good. Lever is more of a stopper where IMO Alex has a better all round game. Lever is also getting games due to injuries to senior players.

 

[theGav56]

They have passed on Paparone and Lever in the 2012 and 2014 drafts respectively in favour of midfielders who have played a total of 2 AFL games between them, one of which is no longer on our list. Paparone has played 33 AFL games and Lever already has a rising star nomination in his first season.

In 2012 we picked up Smith and Taberner, selecting the sublimely talented Simpson ahead of Paparone. We could have gone for another tall but Paprone did not really project as a KPP, and still doesn't really. Smith and Taberner having exchanged places on Rookie/Main Lists, highlighting the difficulty of assessing and recruiting top KPP talent with mid level picks.

Lever is early in his career and looks great doesn't he. Would have liked that selectiion but given his major knee injury/operation is still a risk, and Weller is a terrific choice.