List Mgmt. List planning 2015 and onwards

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Coobk001 said:
Yes, more runners ON THE GROUND, but you're missing the fact that the limit means you can't actually use all 4 bench players in a constant rotation. So instead the opposite will occur in that it'll be more like the old days where a ruckman could rest on the bench. Lobbe would play 60% ruck, Ryder 60% forward, 40% ruck, Lobbe 40% on bench.
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Using that only makes us a lesser team. Ryder is comfortably a better ruckman than Lobbe, and he's a better ruck than forward too. Ryder is elite in terms of ruck play. Lobbe has never been close to that.

We should be trying to get the best out of each player, not restricting the output of one to keep another happy.

The Club needs to make calls that are best for the Club, not the individual - no matter how harsh that seems.
 
If we were going to cash out on Lobbe, now would be the time. We could get burned if we hold onto him and he falls into obscurity, eventually being traded for much less than he may be worth currently.

BUT

I'm not at peace with the risk of having a list with only one established ruck.
 

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longdonkey said:
Call me old fashioned but I always liked the Primus/Lade combination and we always did pretty well with 2 first class ruckmen.
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Yeah. Two first class ruckmen. Pick which one of Ryder and Lobbe is not a first class ruckman.
 
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RossFC said:
Pittard, Renouf, Lonie and Moore for Burgoyne, Birchall and Hill seems like a loss for us.
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*Daniel Motlop/Nat Lonie for pick 14 (Birchall). Lonie was the butterknives of the multiway deal.
 
One thing I don't want is Dixon doing centre square ruck work, forward half ruck work is fine. Want to keep those ankles happy!
 
KenOath said:
A few people seem to be overestimating the importance of having an A-grade second ruck. The key to a second ruck is that they are serviceable around stoppages but most importantly that they have the ability to offer something else, generally a marking target up forward. This is where Lobbe struggles to be a second ruck. Ryder is clearly number 1, and yes he may get injured or a WADA ban but you can't list manage for every possible negative outcome, the fact is that at this moment he is clearly our number 1 ruck and available to play next year.

The issue then becomes what type of player do we want as a second ruck? Just looking at the top 6 teams from this year their second rucks in finals from memory were:
  • Hawks - Hale
  • Eagles - Sinclair
  • Freo - Griffen
  • North - Brown
  • Crows - Jenkins
  • Swans - Tippett
A look at those names should hopefully give people some perspective. None of them are great ruckman but they are generally serviceable and offer something up forward.

I like Lobbe and think he is a good first ruck BUT he is not a good second ruck and Ryder is a better first ruck. Therefore if we could get a first round pick for Lobbe and add a more mobile second ruck who can also play another role then that would be smart list management. A mature depth ruck on the rookie list would then provide some cover if Ryder is injured/banned. But it is crazy to think that we can maintain multiple A-grade ruckmen on our list just in case!
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Yep. This is where Lobbe's career at Port died. Ryder came to the club as our David Hale - the second ruck who played forward and offered relief to the main man. But by the end of the season, Ryder had clearly established himself head and shoulders above Lobbe as the superior ruck option. Lobbe can't be the second ruck, he has to be the first. So we either handicap ourselves by playing a less effective ruckman or we trade the guy who is past his used by date (or we keep him on as depth, which is a bit strange for both parties).
 
I'm not that quick to right off Lobbe. He had a poor year, as did a number of our senior players, but i still think he has a lot to offer and genuine improvement left in him. He's also a Vice Captain, with his work ethic and leadership a valuable asset on its own. He is one of the players on our lists that helps set elite standards at our club, hence why Ken loves him so much, the players respect him and he was appointed VC.

As we applaud the decision for Hartlett to remain loyal, we need to remember loyalty works both ways.

I have absolutely no insider information but if Lobbe is traded, i will fall off my chair and eat my hat.
 

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RossFC said:
Pittard, Renouf, Lonie and Moore for Burgoyne, Birchall and Hill seems like a loss for us.
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Hawthorn are master traders, one of the reasons why they've stayed up for longer than Geelong.

Traded In:
***Burgoyne - *Mark Williams (4 gms - Ret) & pick 9 (Moore)
***Gibson - picks 25 (A.Black) & 41 (Ayden Kennedy - del)
***Hale & 55 (Litherland) - Pick 27 (K.Harper - 40gms)
***Lake & 27 - Pick 21 (Hrovat) & 43 (J.Saunders)
Jed Anderson & 28 (T. O'brien) - *Gilham & 27 (J.Stewart)
***Gunston 53 & 71- pick 24 (Kerridge) & 46 & 64
*Spangher & 70 - pick 64 (Dick - del)
**McEvoy - Savage & 18 (Dunstan)

Traded Out:
Jordan Lisle (del) - Pick 29 ("Start the Car!"), which became 38 (J.Kelly - del) & 56 (T.Downie - GWS)
*Renouf (del) - Pick 33 (***B.Hill)
Sierakowski (del) - pick 58 (L.Neale)

(Each * represents premierships won with Hawthorn)

They lost McGlynn and J.Kennedy but in return got Sam Grimley and Ben Stratton. Getting Stratton is a decent outcome.
 
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he was the gm of sanfl wasnt he?

we may actually have salary cap issues, they arent the sanfl's area of expertise after all ;).
 
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