Opinion Parker, Mills, Reid, Adams... best 22?

[caesar88]

We have been the number 1 pressure team for a while before Fox played in that role. All our guys are accountable. Saying that we’d be suspect is disrespectful to the other forwards who have done the job for some time. I love the guy but if Robbie Fox is the key to our success then we are in trouble.

It's not disrespectful, it's just not any of the other forwards' thing. It's no different than saying our 2012-2016 midfield was suspect when it came to pace. Doesn't mean they weren't a great midfield but they did lack pace.

We can talk about our pressure over the years but that's been with a Wicks/Clarke/Fox type in the team. It's been a long time since we haven't had that sort of a player in our forward line, and we now want to do away with it at a time when forward pressure is as important as ever.

I just personally don't think having an extra mid/wingman type rotating through there is worth it.

 

[JZ_Skitzo]

Squeezing mids into other roles is how you end up the Western Bulldogs

 

[Jewelsbon]

You guys are absolutely kidding yourselves that Adams won’t walk back into the best 22 when fit.

He’s going to be amazing

Agreed. He is the one that will come in and be able to read Grundy's taps from game 1, that will be in valuable.

 

[RedBloodBlackSwan]

Great thread.

Firstly, what a good problem to have. I’m not complaining!

I reckon mindsets will be important. Currently, everyone is willing to play their role and the team has balance. My concern would be having a star come in, but then rather than play their position’s role, they play as they want to play instead.

Take for instance if Parker is to play more up forward. If he replaces Haywood, then he can still play the traditional marking role he has played in the past. But if he takes Fox’s role, he has to be willing to chase all day long, and then only lead for the ball opportunistically. He can’t let his ego get the way.

Jordon may not be setting the world on fire in the mids, but whatever he is doing is helping others shine (and he is not making major errors). If Adams comes back in the guts, he needs to create the same time and space for his team mates.

Mills I think plays defence and goes midfield if someone is injured / tired / out of form.

Lots of rotations though. I want to see fresh legs come finals, not last legs.

 

[caesar88]

I feel like rather than think of it as "who do we cut", Horse & co will use this depth and these options to think more, "who needs a rest this week." Revolving door of managed players to keep everyone fit, with the concept of our 'best 22' floating for as long as necessary.

 

[TheWhiteRhino]

Here's my thinking:

1. Try to get smart all you like, all 3 are best 22.

2. None of them are great by foot. Therefore, we can't sacrifice players like Campbell without damaging the team brand.

3. Ditto applying pressure as resting forwards. Parker is a contested beast, but he can't match guys like Hayward and Wicks in applying chase down pressure when the ball hits the ground.

4. Adams has no doubt been pencilled in a a genuine inside mid. He'll spend most of his time there, whilst resting forward.

5. Parker is the only one who has proven himself as a genuine dangerous forward option.

6. Mills' experience and effectiveness as a floating defender cannot be overlooked, particularly if we continue to opt for a smaller sized backline.

7. Fox clearly doesn't have a permanent position in the team. The fact he's been trialled forward also makes him expendable IMO.

8. Cunningham is our only genuine lock down defender.

9. Roberts is a great distributor, but so is Blakey and guys like McInerney and Campbell have the same ability to distribute off half back.

10. Jordan has made a strong start to his time at the Swans and has been a great complimentary piece in the midfield and on the forward flank. But no one can deny he doesn't do either as well as Parker at this point in his career.

11. Longmire loves Reid, but he's invested in the current 3 headed dragon. Of those 3, McLean is the only genuine ruck option and McDonald is too much of a flight risk (yes, his contract will come into play). That makes Amartey the most expendable, but I can only see that happening if Reid genuinely earns his spot.

So, as it stands, if all 4 were fit tomorrow, I think the most likely scenario is:

Jordan > Parker
Roberts > Mills
Fox > Adams
Reid - out of the team unless he earns the spot over Amartey

 

[sthmelb_dimmies]

Reid - out of the team unless he earns the spot over Amartey

at this point, Reid is basically tall injury insurance.

Which is as astonishing an irony as you’re ever going to see

 

[BloodySwan]

In spite of all this talk someone will get injured and Horse will have a very easy decision to make.

 

[zyzzbruh]

I suspect other injuries and managing players is going to mean we don't need to worry so much about this, but if all are fit it's going to be a balancing act. There is a reason why we've started so strongly, we've harnessed our outside + turnover game - Rowbum + Warner have stepped up and coupled with Grundy it means we’re no longer getting annihilated once the ball hits the deck, oppo mids getting first hands on it no longer have the time and space to feed out to their outside players efficiently as last year and so we’re able to turn it over quite quickly with manic pressure – it almost benefits us having the oppo get first hands on it. My worry with having a parker and adams combo in there is that increased clearance wins with the dump kick out of the centre completely takes away our offensive strength in turnover and streaming forward which is where we absolutely dismantled pies and dees. Fox and Jordon seem the obvious outs but I don’t like it, completely different players who have been imperative in our link up play transitioning from defence to offense. And replacing parker with Hayward means that tackle on Crisp no longer occurs. The tide has shifted, I don’t think Parker and Adams should be guaranteed anything. Much rather swap like for like players when depth is required rather than tinker with a winning formula. These two are not our future, but invaluable depth. I’d be quite nervous just trying to stuff them all in at the expense of important underrated role players.

Will take a bit of experimentation, but once they’re in if it looks like we’re losing our mojo then Horse needs to switch it back real quick.

Mills for Roberts is the only direct swap i'd be comfortable with at the moment.

 

[Nuggetz]

Imo if you play Parker or Adams forward then you need to drop one of the 3 talls, as we would be too slow in our fwd 50 to effectively apply pressure. I would drop Amartey due to inconsistency in his performance & low TOG.

Imo Parker can play a similar role to Amartey when he's in the forward line.
Mills can play Roberts role in defence.
Adams can take Jmac/Guldens etc. inside mins & they can play Jordon/Lloyd/Campbells outside role.

Maintaining team balance is very important, so everyone can compliment each others roles.

Outs Ins
Amartey Parker
Roberts Mills
Lloyd Adams

A few harsh drops but that's what happens when good teams build depth.

You can role with a main mid group of Heeney, Rowbottom, Adams, Parker, Warner & then use the likes of Mills/Papley/Guldens/Jmac for specific situations like CBAs. I think that group has a great balance between attack/defence & strength/speed. Mills depending on his form could also play an important midfield role.

Imo like a few other posters, I think we'll see players managed if our list is healthy. It's very important to keep them fresh for the finals. A bit like Geelong in 2022 but there's still plenty of things that can change.

 

[Crust]

Another problem, I suspect, is that Adams left the Pies because he was not playing in the mids, but rather in defence. We may very well have given him some positional assurances when negotiating his contract.

 

[RUNVS]

Mills won't be back for 3 months so we won't have to worry about him for a while. 12 weeks is even longer than I thought.

 

[Dubai Quacker]

Horse was right - these things tend to work themselves out.

Other players will get injured between now and Parker, Adams & Mills’ return. It’s inevitable.

No club ever has its full list to choose from - so the whole argument is in the realms of the hypothetical.

 

[Wheresbuddy]

From what I could see, our current on ball rotation is Heeney, Chad, RB, Jordan, JMac, Errol and Paps (at centre bounces). We need to squeeze Parker, Mills and Adams into this mix. As good as Jordan has been, I can see him making way. Jmac to play the role of wing / small defender with Campbell. That would allow us to drop Cunningham, who is a great one on one defender but average on his disposal. My final unfortunate demotion would be Amartey. Fox can play 3rd tall / negating with Heeney and Parker rolling through as a marking medium forward.

But yes, all academic and if we have a fully fit and in form list when it comes time to bring these guys back, I suspect we will be absolutely flying.

 

[caesar88]

The diminutive elephant in the room is Errol Gulden, who is currently among our top 3 most used mids on the inside, with his time in there going up by 6% from last year, but he really isn't offering a whole lot in the contest.

Yet to register a centre clearance in either game, not getting a heap of first possession relative to the other mids, not tackling much (averaging only two tackles - last year averaged 5), going at just over a clearance a game. He's getting plenty of the ball - 25 per game - but less than 25% of those touches are contested.

It's all a bit 'meh', and feels like a wasted inside rotation.

And yet in general play he's the awesome Gulden we all know and love. Elite running patterns, elite delivery by foot, smart decision-making and vision to see the whole field.

Seems to me if we can get him back out on the wing, then we'll get the best out of Gulden and we can easily fit a Parker or an Adams in there. From there it's probably at the expense of Jordon or Campbell, which would undoubtedly be harsh, but if our depth is as good as we think & hope it is, then we better get used to making such harsh calls.

 

[BloodySwan]

With Fox injured, if Adams was fit would you bring him in?

 

[momentbymoment]

What I liked about the game against Collingwood was it allowed Gulden to hang out wide and we could abuse his kicking. Had he been in the middle that wouldn't have happened. He can find space but he would be under a lot more pressure

Do we have to?
I like his kicking …

 

[JZ_Skitzo]

With Fox injured, if Adams was fit would you bring him in?

He left Collingwood to get out of the forward line.

 

[Ballarat Bob]

Would like to see Reid ,Parker and Adams have a run or two in the VFL before they come in if we are still winning games and injury free. Not convinced they are automatic inclusions at the moment.
I also think that it sends a good sign to the fringe players that if the team keeps winning and you play your part you will keep your place.

 

[BloodySwan]

He left Collingwood to get out of the forward line.

He left Collingwood to get a contract and not play the VFL

 

[MF]

Would like to see Reid ,Parker and Adams have a run or two in the VFL before they come in if we are still winning games and injury free. Not convinced they are automatic inclusions at the moment.
I also think that it sends a good sign to the fringe players that if the team keeps winning and you play your part you will keep your place.

Adams and Reid will definitely be playing 2s given their injuries last year and time out of the game. Parker might come straight back depending on where we're at.

 

[SydneyBlood]

As good (great?) as Parker, Adams and Mills have been in their careers, I'm liking the flair and mobility and pace of our current midfield. Heeney, Gulden and Warner especially and cameos from Papley add more creativity and athleticism than the aforementioned three in my opinion. Especially Adams and Parker who are at the back-end of their careers.

I'd be loathe to add more than one of those three at a time for fear of becoming too one-paced and predictable around the middle. There's always a place for a bull of an inside mid but I prefer the balance of a more dynamic midfield at the moment. How do they all fit back in? Or do they all fit back in? We'll see. I'd especially like Heeney kept predominantly in the middle where he gets more touches.

 

[the hypnotoad]

Fairly close to how I see it playing out

I don’t think Lloyd is going back to defence, I reckon they’ll settle Roberts there and I reckon he will get squeezed out of the wings once these players return.

roberts is looking more and more like he stays

 

[Kiama Chris]

Would like to see Reid ,Parker and Adams have a run or two in the VFL before they come in if we are still winning games and injury free. Not convinced they are automatic inclusions at the moment.
I also think that it sends a good sign to the fringe players that if the team keeps winning and you play your part you will keep your place.

Totally agree about Reid and Adams. Both had leg injuries and may need a few games to build match fitness. Parker will have been running plenty so should be OK aerobically. Maybe one to get his timing right.

 

[MF]

Squeezing mids into other roles is how you end up the Western Bulldogs

Still amazes me that they haven't traded some of them out to bolster up their KP stocks