MMA-UFC UFC 168 Weidman vs Silva II

[dytronik]

Sorry, Dan Henderson sledging Anderson is not a source. All champions would go through a process with Dana trying to negotiate contracts/money/location/advertising/PPV cut, Anderson is not alone.

Bottom line, Anderson fights the top contenders and his record shows that.



Source? Incredibly stupid decision by Pride if true (which I doubt was as simple as that); Anderson was a top 170 pounder and the Cage Rage champion.



I think we can safely say his loss to Takase and Chonan were abnormal losses in a stellar career from top to bottom.He simply got caught by Takase and Chonan's was a freak, once in a lifetime, submission.


I mean what are we comparing here? Sure, Weidman has had a better first 10 fights, no one can deny that. We weren't discussing that at all though.


We can all agree with that. We'll see how the second fight goes I suppose.


Comparing MMA betting to bond yields and term deposits in the US? Holy hell, we've gone full crazy and irrelevant.

The UFC wanted a rematch between Henderson and Silva but Silva stalled and fought James Irvin at Light Heavyweight instead which in no way can be argued that Irvin was a top contender. Henderson was privy to this information and moved to Strikeforce. Silva heavily resisted calls to fight Weidman and the fight was forced upon him. The reason all the pro fighters picked Weidman is that they know Silva likes to pick fighters that favour his style as he has traditionally struggled against wrestlers and grapplers.

How can fights against Thales Leites and Patrick Coté be considered the best?

Silva's last fight in Pride was his loss to Chonan at Pride Shockwave in 2004. He wasn't invited to Pride Shockwave 2005 where Dan Henderson won Pride Welterweight (which was the 185lb division) championship which made Henderson the top in this division whilst Silva was in Cage Rage.

The reason I mention Weidman having a better first ten fights is that Silva entered the UFC with a 17-4 record and was not given an automatic title shot that would be expected of a top contender (such as Gilbert Melendez crossing over from Strikeforce to fight Henderson for the LW title).

The point I'm trying to make is there is a lot of Anderson Silva revisionist history that purports him to be some kind of undefeated Wunderkind like Jon Jones but Silva has not always fought the best and come out on top.

If Silva wins then I'll have egg on my face so be it, but the fact that a younger hungrier champion that conclusively won the belt is a heavy underdog with the betting market presents a rare opportunity to make easy money. The fact is style makes fights and Weidman is placed to win once again in dominant fashion.

If Weidman loses I'm still going to watch the UFC and you won't see me taking some time away from watching the sport.

 

[dytronik]

Geez, you lose once.......

Silva has five losses.

 

[Nickos66]

Silva has always carefully picked his fights in what has at times been a shallow division. In his time in Pride he was actually close to getting cut. It wasn't like he was a José Aldo who was destroying the competition and universally accepted as the best in his division it was only once he wrested the belt from Franklin that he begun this tear that has cemented his place in MMA history.

If anyone has watched Anderson Silva vs Lee Murray will know Silva has not always favoured his striking as his main strength.

I think Weidman is more game than Silva in taking on all comers and I think everyone is underestimating Weidman's ability to avoid getting hit by Silva. Currently fighters with a wrestling background are having the most success and I think Weidman's will improve more from his last fight than Silva. I honestly think Weidman's is a more naturally mixed martial artist than Silva due to his preternatural ability to implement the correct technique at the right time. To pull off a standing guillotine choke or his use of an elbow on Munoz just comes down God given ability.

http://www.mmafighting.com/2013/9/6/4679268/chris-weidman-seven-weeks-into-his-own-era

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...amercian-will-look-even-better-in-the-rematch

If there is anyone who has the best chance to beat Weidman it is Jacare Souza. He matches up perfectly and may be one of the few in the middleweight division who can match Weidman in terms of physical strength and grappling ability.

I reiterate my belief that Weidman will submit Silva and it is going to be a dominant performance from a man who knows how to rise to the occasion.

Good post, I tend to agree that Weidman is the more rounded and natural modern mixed martial artist. Silva will always prefer to stand rather than grapple, which I love, but with Weidman it doesn't matter. His wrestling is elite and his submissions are nasty. His striking clearly speaks for itself too...

 

[alfy!]

The UFC wanted a rematch between Henderson and Silva

Wait wait, Henderson and the UFC (apparently) wanted an immediate rematch with Silva? That's laughable. Hendo got dominated, consistently rocked on his feet, knocked down and then choked out. It was a white wash, he had nothing for Silva. And then he wants a rematch 4 months later?

Henderson was privy to this information and moved to Strikeforce.

Hendo moved to Strikeforce 3 fights later in 2010.

Silva heavily resisted calls to fight Weidman and the fight was forced upon him.

He was always going to fight Weidman, don't believe what Dana says/trolls in the press. Like all champions (GSP does it too) he was posturing for a better deal.

The reason all the pro fighters picked Weidman is that they know Silva likes to pick fighters that favour his style as he has traditionally struggled against wrestlers and grapplers.

He's only struggled with Chael in the wrestling area. Before the fight he had the best TDD in the UFC I believe. Hendo sure couldn't get Silva down and do damage.

and was not given an automatic title shot that would be expected of a top contender (such as Gilbert Melendez crossing over from Strikeforce to fight Henderson for the LW title).

That's not really how it went down back then. When he came to the UFC and fought Leben, he was considered the best at 185.

Melendez is a whole different situation, irrelevant in effect, where Cage Rage champion =/= Strikeforce champion.

How can fights against Thales Leites and Patrick Coté be considered the best?

God, this discussion again? They were the top contenders at that time, Silva fights whoever is at the top of the division and whoever Dana says he should fight.

Cote and Leites had won their last 5 fights in the UFC and were 5-1 since their return/entry.

He wasn't invited to Pride Shockwave 2005

Got a link proving the reason to that. I'd bet it wasn't due to Silva not being good enough, I mean take a look at the tournament and the names involved.

The point I'm trying to make is there is a lot of Anderson Silva revisionist history that purports him to be some kind of undefeated Wunderkind like Jon Jones but Silva has not always fought the best and come out on top.

He's constantly said to be undefeated in the UFC (before his latest fight) and the best MMA fighter in the world. I've never seen anyone say he was undefeated in his career. I'm certainly not saying that - he was rough around the edges when he started his MMA career and it took him a while to develop the all round aspects of his MMA (mainly his BJJ).

The fact is style makes fights and Weidman is placed to win once again in dominant fashion.

It's cool if you want to make predictions and bet on fights, but you've straight up falsified events, facts and statements and that is what I'm calling you out on.

If Weidman loses I'm still going to watch the UFC and you won't see me taking some time away from watching the sport.

Ah, there it is - a personal attach. I was waiting for it, it was only a matter of time when you started struggling.

Silva has five losses.

Only 1 in the UFC.

 

[dytronik]

Ah, there it is - a personal attach. I was waiting for it, it was only a matter of time when you started struggling.

Firstly, you said I was crazy and irrelevant in your rebuttal so I don't see why you're even replying to my posts.

Secondly it's you misspelt attack as attach.

Thirdly, I enjoy the banter and will gladly argue all day but if you are going to request links for every point I make and provide rebuttals to my arguments you need to prove your point with links. It's only fair you hold yourself to the same standards you are holding me too. If we are to reference everything I suggest we use Harvard style referencing over APA because it is more convenient.

Fourthly, can we start up a new tipping competition with an independent arbiter (Jab, Jay C[/FONT][FONT=Helvetica], or someone else held in high regard) so that we can have some skin in the game. Good luck.

 

[alfy!]

Firstly you said I was crazy and irrelevant so I don't see why you're even replying to my posts.

I said comparing MMA betting to US bond yields and term deposits is crazy and irrelevant. I stand by that statement 100% - it's simply ridiculous to put the two in the same sentence, let alone talking about it as if MMA betting could be apart of a balanced investment portfolio.

Good to see you ignoring the rest of my post though

 

[dytronik]

I said comparing MMA betting to US bond yields and term deposits is crazy and irrelevant. I stand by that statement 100% - it's simply ridiculous to put the two in the same sentence, let alone talking about it as if MMA betting could be apart of a balanced investment portfolio.

Good to see you ignoring the rest of my post though

Please see my updated post with regards to your rebuttals. You have some points but first we need some rules drawn up before we take this debate any further.

If you want to take things to heart we are going to get red carded and cause some extra work for the moderators, which is unnecessary. But go ahead because I'm enjoying this to be honest.

 

[alfy!]

Secondly it's you misspelt attack as attach.

Spelling corrections, that's a sign you have a rock solid opinion and point of view. Good job man.

Thirdly, I enjoy the banter and will gladly argue all day but if you are going to request links for every point I make and provide rebuttals to my arguments you need to prove your point with links. It's only fair you hold yourself to the same standards you are holding me too. If we are to reference everything I suggest we use Harvard style referencing over APA because it is more convenient.

I enjoy this too, I like discussing MMA with anyone, but not when they try and pass off opinion as fact. Hence why I'm asking for sources for certain statements you are making. You are free to do the same to me.

It's obvious you are a huge Weidman fan (the avatar) but I hope that isn't blinding you in your opinion of Silva. Sadly with some of the statements you are making, this seems to be the case.

If you want to take things to heart we are going to get red carded and cause some extra work for the moderators, which is unnecessary. But go ahead because I'm enjoying this to be honest.

I'm perfectly happy to continue, but if you are going to bring in personal or off topic remarks when the argument isn't going your way, we are done here.

 

[dytronik]

Spelling corrections, that's a sign you have a rock solid opinion and point of view. Good job man.


I enjoy this too, I like discussing MMA with anyone, but not when they try and pass off opinion as fact. Hence why I'm asking for sources for certain statements you are making. You are free to do the same to me.

It's obvious you are a huge Weidman fan (the avatar) but I hope that isn't blinding you in your opinion of Silva. Sadly with some of the statements you are making, this seems to be the case.



I'm perfectly happy to continue, but if you are going to bring in personal or off topic remarks when the argument isn't going your way, we are done here.

I changed my avatar to Weidman from Muhammad Ali (who although a great fighter is a very flawed man at the best of times) to make the point I expect the belt to stay in the hands of the current champion.

I am probably being too provocative as this thread appears to indicate. My apologies if I caused you any offence but if you are going to call bull**** on my post by picking apart every line I right and give your cents worth whilst demanding links then you must also hold yourself to account.

It's very hard to convey tone and satire purely using words and as such my original comments about bond yields and interest rates compared to the betting returns on a Weidman win may be misunderstood. However after you classified me as crazy and irrelevant for these comments awoke my competitive instincts. I still want to do a tipping competition against yourself so that we have some skin in the game or we can take this argument about Silva to the pound for pound thread. Otherwise 29/12/2013 will clarify this argument.

 

[alfy!]

My apologies if I caused you any offence but if you are going to call bull**** on my post by picking apart every line I right and give your cents worth whilst demanding links then you must also hold yourself to account.

If you are going to post ridiculous things like Silva was almost cut from Pride, he said no to a rematch with Hendo, he picks his fights and has fought sub-standard opposition, all the while downplaying Silva's achievements and history, I'm obviously going to call you out on it.

You are free to request and do the same from/to me.

I still want to do a tipping competition against yourself so that we have some skin in the game

I'm not sure what this will prove, or what 'having skin in the game' even means in this context. I've taken part in previous tipping competitions and you can look over my results, but I no longer take part because I'm not giving as much time to MMA these days and often am not caught up on the recent fight cards/news/happenings.

Otherwise 29/12/2013 will clarify this argument.

Not at all, this argument wasn't about the upcoming fight or who is the better fighter. You are certainly free to predict who will win that fight and I won't have any problem with that.

 

[dytronik]

It's obvious you are a huge Weidman fan (the avatar) but I hope that isn't blinding you in your opinion of Silva. Sadly with some of the statements you are making, this seems to be the case.

I'm not a huge Weidman fan. I have enjoyed his last couple of fights but my I'm a bigger fan of GSP, Aldo and Pettis.

I am however against the cult of personality that seems to surround some fighters (such as Overeem when he was bulking up in Japan) that is the cause of the confirmation bias and your fervent defence of your favourite fighter and his infallibility by suggesting his loss to Takase to be waved off (he ran out of puff in the second round) is usually indicative of confirmation bias. Your brain can only assimilate information that is congruent to your view that Silva is the GOAT and any incongruent information is simply brushed aside as incorrect and irrelevant.

The current UFC fighter that I has a stylistic advantage is Jacare Souza. If he is able to secure a title shot to Souza I will happily pick holes in Weidmans game and espouse the reasons as to why Jacare will be the new middleweight UFC champion.

Then again Belfor could throw a spanner in the works if he continues on his current tear. In that case I will change my avatar to Belfort.

 

[dytronik]

I'm not sure what this will prove, or what 'having skin in the game' even means in this context. I've taken part in previous tipping competitions and you can look over my results, but I no longer take part because I'm not giving as much time to MMA these days and often am not caught up on the recent fight cards/news/happenings..

All results are relative I want a head to head competition.

I don't watch all the cards and read all the news as I have other commitments but if want to settle this dispute. You want to make yourself appear as a martyr by by attacking me personally and crying wolf when you receive like for like treatment. I'm responsible for the fact that this has escalated due to fact that I am argumentative and petulant.

You first took offence at my opinion on Weidman being a better mixed martial artist so another comprehensive Weidman win on 29/12/2013 will settle the argument.

 

[dytronik]

If you are going to post ridiculous things like Silva was almost cut from Pride, he said no to a rematch with Hendo, he picks his fights and has fought sub-standard opposition, all the while downplaying Silva's achievements and history, I'm obviously going to call you out on it.

I will have to find the links as I don't bookmark every story I read however you have not provided a single link to any of your arguments but expect that you lines from the book of Anderson to be accepted as teh gospel truth.

 

[Crimson Azure]

Anyway move on guys.

dytronik you say you're not a Wideman nut hugger yet thats all you do.

Lay off the Widemen stuff, just coming across as a troll. Not to mention the Silva bashing. If Wideman is so good, lets leave the Silva bashing to him.

Unless he's defended the title a dozen times without me knowing that is. Then we might have something to talk about re him being the GOAT & most naturally gifted MMA practitioner there ever was or will be.

Anyway, has anyone heard Silva & Wideman are fighting again?

 

[Z_K]

Before Weidman, last fight Silva lost was by a flying bloody heel hook almost 10 years ago.

Put the house on him December 28. The ***** house.

 

[Nickos66]

Anyway move on guys.

dytronik you say you're not a Wideman nut hugger yet thats all you do.

Lay off the Widemen stuff, just coming across as a troll. Not to mention the Silva bashing. If Wideman is so good, lets leave the Silva bashing to him.

Unless he's defended the title a dozen times without me knowing that is. Then we might have something to talk about re him being the GOAT & most naturally gifted MMA practitioner there ever was or will be.

Anyway, has anyone heard Silva & Wideman are fighting again?

Uuurghh...

I mean no offence, but please do not use the term 'Nut hugger', it immediately ousts any user of that term as an obnoxious petulant child who trawls too many UFC forums.

Just to clarify - I HATE that term.

 

[red+black]

I think he's ready

 

[Nickos66]

Love it.

 

[Upgrayedd]

Before Weidman, last fight Silva lost was by a flying bloody heel hook almost 10 years ago.

Put the house on him December 28. The ******** house.

I think Anderson as well wont be mocking Weidman during the fight either, He was hurt for being caught for being a disrespectful dick. He wont do it again.

 

[Nickos66]

That's where you're wrong I believe. Aside from the fact that he's said he won't change a thing - that's his style, he doesn't see it as disrespectful in the slightest, he sees that as his calculated gameplan to weigh the fight in his favour through the whole mentality aspect. It's his style, it's how he does what he does and you will be seeing it again. Maybe not to the degree of stupidity like standing in front of him with his hands on his hips with his chin out, but he will be doing what he normally does for the most part.

 

[Crimson Azure]

That's where you're wrong I believe. Aside from the fact that he's said he won't change a thing - that's his style, he doesn't see it as disrespectful in the slightest, he sees that as his calculated gameplan to weigh the fight in his favour through the whole mentality aspect. It's his style, it's how he does what he does and you will be seeing it again. Maybe not to the degree of stupidity like standing in front of him with his hands on his hips with his chin out, but he will be doing what he normally does for the most part.

If he does it'll be very subdued. I can't really remember him doing it against Sonnon. He had a point to prove so he didn't play mind games, he fought In a manner to prove that Sonnon's 'domination' was an aberration.

It's different that against Wideman it was a loss so may affect his mentality going into the fight. Either way I can't wait.

 

[Damon_3388]

Best. Promo. Ever.

 

[bkozican]

All I have to say is this card is huge and the more it plays and plays.....Weidman for the win.

 

[Crimson Azure]

This has just been confirmed for December 28! Rousey vs Tate will be co-main.

OP needs some work. No info!

 

[Jab]

OP needs some work. No info!

If only we had good mods on board, or BigFooty.