World Cup Semi Final 2 Thursday July 11; England v Australia @ Edgbaston

[lazy77]

I'm talking about the stats from the WC as this is what the thread is about.

Roy's strike rate is 117 to Warners 89. Clearly a win to Roy.
England don't need Finch as a captain, but as I said, it's close.
Root has scored 170 more runs than Smith with a better average by 30.
Doesn't matter who you think is better.
WTF have have yorkers got to do with anything?
Archer has 17 wickets at 22 and Cummins has 14 at 30.

If going off of the WC stats, Starc would be the only certainty IMO.
There's a couple of other close calls.

TBH, your opinion of England not being a clearly superior side is insane.

It's incredible that you think Root is a better batsman than Smith. That's pretty much objectively wrong. It's also weird that you don't think Warner would get in the England side. He would walk in, and Roy/Bairstow would battle for the other opening spot. Starc would obviously be in and possibly Cummins as well. Finch would be in the reckoning, but would probably miss out.

But yeah, this England side is obviously superior. They bat right down and are much more capable of hitting out. Our middle order is nowhere near theirs. The bowling attacks are comparable depending on conditions and the country.

 

[KiwiRoo]

It's incredible that you think Root is a better batsman than Smith. That's pretty much objectively wrong. It's also weird that you don't think Warner would get in the England side. He would walk in, and Roy/Bairstow would battle for the other opening spot. Starc would obviously be in and possibly Cummins as well. Finch would be in the reckoning, but would probably miss out.

But yeah, this England side is obviously superior. They bat right down and are much more capable of hitting out. Our middle order is nowhere near theirs. The bowling attacks are comparable depending on conditions and the country.

he was talking about this world cup though and Root was comfortably better. Career wise well you'd take Smith, but not by a huge amount, Smiths overseas record isn't nearly as good as his aussie home record where he's unbelievable. But he's batting on roads in aussie, whereas Root bats on tracks that do a little more and they use a duke ball which also does more. Smith in his favour is batting in a side that doesn't have much in the middle order so that puts more pressure on him
Good debate though as both fine batsmen

 

[KiwiRoo]

One of my best mates is a Pom and ferocious Pom Cricket supporter, but had the good sense to come out here and marry an Oz girl. He refers to his kids as "the kangas" . We have given each other 20+ years of Cricket abuse/rubbishing, but all in great fun, all biased, no harm done. It's a good thing.
I was playing Cricket when The Ugly Aussie thing started with Chappelli/Jenner (against whom I played after he 'retired' and was the stand-out for vilest sledger I have ever heard --- just not funny) and others. Taken to new lows by Warner and the win-at-all-costs mentality and the hypocrisy of "crossing the line" (that line set by the Aussies themselves and moved whenever it suited them).
I was ashamed of the behaviours later that made Aussie cricketers despised all over the world. Very sorry to read about your own experience/s, sincerely.
I've admired for some years now the ways that the Kiwis have gone about their cricket. Hard, but fair and in great spirit, with respect for the game and their opponents. Looks like Langer is shaping our team along similar lines. I hope it continues and that the Oz/Pom rivalry stays hard, but fair and respectful.

yep I like the way my side goes about it. We went through a period of trying to be more Australian and got into sledging/ abuse etc. But its just rubbish. Full credit to McCullum for changing it round and Williamson continuing it. Long may it continue too
It seems like a lot of Aussie supporters are well over it too and was probably the catalyst for smith and warner getting, in my view, too harsh a penalty. What they did was dumb, but a year ?. Give me a break, that was appeasing sponsors who were reading the public opinion tea leaves, not giving a punishment to fit the crime

 

[psychobrown]

A thorough and necessary humiliation in the finish, telecasters thought they had another '99 semi on their hands but the English squashed that burger. A lot of blame rests with the BNG and his preparation, all that embarrassing crap with the 'Circle of Visions' and the barefoot 'grounding' by walking around the oval, like that's not how grounding works you idiot, you're supposed to stand in place barefoot and sink into the earth until you connect with your spirit guides, if he had done that properly his guides would have told him not to pick Handscombe and Stoinis lol what a noob.

 

[Tugga27]

It's incredible that you think Root is a better batsman than Smith. That's pretty much objectively wrong. It's also weird that you don't think Warner would get in the England side. He would walk in, and Roy/Bairstow would battle for the other opening spot. Starc would obviously be in and possibly Cummins as well. Finch would be in the reckoning, but would probably miss out.

But yeah, this England side is obviously superior. They bat right down and are much more capable of hitting out. Our middle order is nowhere near theirs. The bowling attacks are comparable depending on conditions and the country.

Maybe you're right about Warner.

But I still reckon Starc would be the only real certainty.
Could make a case for Cummings but not instead of Archer.

I didn't say Root is better bat than Smith, I said based on the WC stats, he'd be picked before Smith.

 

[KiwiRoo]

if not just taking into account WC form, then Warner, Smith, Starc and probably Cummins would make the joint side. Cummins can take Woods place as better bat and bowler, though Wood has improved a lot.Starc replaces Woakes or Plunkett, Smith replaces Morgan, Warner over Bairstow

Finch behind Roy, and Lyons behind Rashid. The rest not really close

 

[Richard Pryor]

Starc was decent, but people banging on about his record 27 wickets need to realise he did it in 10 games with no one taking them off him (next best was Cummins with 10 and Dorff with 9). In 2007, McGrath got 26 with Tait taking 23 and Hogg 21.

Eh, stat nitpicking can always go both ways though. Could also argue that McGrath partnering up with great bowlers meant batsmen were less likely to try and just see him off and attack the other bowlers. Starc also didn't get to bowl to Netherlands or Scotland. Also going off cricinfo's stat page McGrath did it in 11 games so don't see how Starcs 10 matches is in his favor.

I was a kid in 07 though so can't really compare the two based on viewing properly. I'm certain McGrath didn't bowl as much loose trash as Starc though.

 

[Richard Pryor]

he was talking about this world cup though and Root was comfortably better. Career wise well you'd take Smith, but not by a huge amount, Smiths overseas record isn't nearly as good as his aussie home record where he's unbelievable. But he's batting on roads in aussie, whereas Root bats on tracks that do a little more and they use a duke ball which also does more. Smith in his favour is batting in a side that doesn't have much in the middle order so that puts more pressure on him
Good debate though as both fine batsmen

We talking Tests or ODI's?

Smiths overseas average in Tests isn't as astronomical as in Aus but it's still 50.96 (counting 'neutral' games based on quick math skills) compared to Root's 43.58. Root's average on Aussie roads is only 38. Smith is lightyears ahead of Root in Tests, and Root has dropped out of the 'big 4' conversation and will be remembered as a distant runner-up compared to Williamson/Smith/Kohli like Mohammad Yousuf is with Lara/Tendulkar/Ponting in my opinion.

If talking ODI's ignore above comments.

 

[Santana]

Despite his knock last night it's probably time for Smith to step away from ODIs too. I doubt he'll be in contention in four years time and it's time for him to look at getting the most out of his Test career.

Why would we do that? If Smith can contribute towards our best ODI 11 over the next 4 years why wouldn't we?

I mean, we actually want to win this World Cup thing again right? We will need our best players. He'll only be 33/34 for the next one.

 

[Donnie Darko]

I still don’t get why this is an issue, aside from someone like Archer who has actually had to qualify. Why are the others any different to Khawaja playing for Australia?

As long as I have posted here , its something the Australian fans have never stopped talking about. Its their go-to excuse for everything.
Doesnt matter that Roy and Stokes were childhood migrants to England and had all their development here. They werent career mercenaries like Trott.
Its their tactic to belittle results . Despite the fact that their team has picked various players born overseas like Renshaw , Labuschagne ,etc..
for them "its OK when we do it" .

I saw similar stuff about their mentality towards cheating before they got caught with the sandpaper.
They would routinely accuse every other team of cheating . It the cognitive dissonance of some of their fans.

 

[CrowBloke]

At least try and make an effort on some of these.
Root’s one day career has been not just better than Smith’s - it’s been f***ing way better.
And his World Cup output has absolutely opened Smith’s gullet, and taken a dirty rotten s**t in it.
Google isn’t hard to use. Put in some f***in effort

Nice.
I make an abuse-free, insult-free post and cop a foul spray from another keyboard coward.

I didn't say that Smith is a better ODI batsman. I said:
"Smith is the superior batsman. ". In general. Overall.
Read the words. Look also at how many Test 100s Smith has made (a ton every 2.78 Tests) compared to Root (a ton every 5 Tests).

I think Smith is the superior batsman.
You don't. That's fine. It's not important. Certainly not important enough to lash out at a stranger.

Before you reply with another crappy post, think, then maybe get some anger management help --- and learn some manners.

 

[Leeda]

Finch was right, the team did exceptionally well up to this game, but perhaps everyone was kind of thinking that they would
just romp in. It is a mind thing of course and while I am shattered for Finch in particular because he was keen to lead by
example, however he wasn't alone in making less of the abilities of the whole team.

But the ashes are a chance for atonement and that is perhaps more important than a WC.

 

[to1994]

Haha! I didn't either!

What was your point though

If you bothered to read the whole post I was talking about the Ashes, WC form isn't relevant to Test match bowling.

 

[jhong]

We were well and truly beaten by a better Team .While Cummins was s**t in this WC he is a must in the test squad . I am not confidant in regards to the ashes , personally think we are too reliant on Smith and Warner to bank runs , if our pace attack insists on bowling short we are ****ed . To move the ball in pommeland you have to bowl full ish , the short stuff is ok as a surprise ball , but not as a stock ball. The English are quite happy to doctor their pitches to suit their current squad , lets not help them pls.

 

[PhatBoy]

Nice.
I make an abuse-free, insult-free post and cop a foul spray from another keyboard coward.

I didn't say that Smith is a better ODI batsman. I said:
"Smith is the superior batsman. ". In general. Overall.
Read the words. Look also at how many Test 100s Smith has made (a ton every 2.78 Tests) compared to Root (a ton every 5 Tests).

I think Smith is the superior batsman.
You don't. That's fine. It's not important. Certainly not important enough to lash out at a stranger.

Before you reply with another crappy post, think, then maybe get some anger management help --- and learn some manners.

We are comparing two one day teams, not who is the better overall batsman across all formats out of root and smith. I didn’t abuse you. I pointed out the silliness of something you wrote.

 

[KiwiRoo]

We talking Tests or ODI's?

Smiths overseas average in Tests isn't as astronomical as in Aus but it's still 50.96 (counting 'neutral' games based on quick math skills) compared to Root's 43.58. Root's average on Aussie roads is only 38. Smith is lightyears ahead of Root in Tests, and Root has dropped out of the 'big 4' conversation and will be remembered as a distant runner-up compared to Williamson/Smith/Kohli like Mohammad Yousuf is with Lara/Tendulkar/Ponting in my opinion.

If talking ODI's ignore above comments.

yep I was talking one day cricket. for tests only kohli is in the same hemisphere with smith. Williamson and root the next level down

 

[Kapow!!!]

Handscomb was one of Australia’s best batsmen in his last 2 series and now people say he should never play again after 1 failure? Hilarious, he’ll be someone the future middle order is built around.

Looked all at sea with the moving ball and has a seriously flawed technique. Face it, the fact that he's close to the national side is a poor reflection of where Australian standards are at. His inclusion is pretty indefensible, even if you are Victorian.

Furthermore I just saw that Roy dismissal...you don't like seeing anyone miss a world cup final but my word he came dangerously close to doing so. I feel any other game he would've been suspended. I can't remember too many worse incidents of dissent.

 

[Tugga27]

Nice.
I make an abuse-free, insult-free post and cop a foul spray from another keyboard coward.

I didn't say that Smith is a better ODI batsman. I said:
"Smith is the superior batsman. ". In general. Overall.
Read the words. Look also at how many Test 100s Smith has made (a ton every 2.78 Tests) compared to Root (a ton every 5 Tests).

I think Smith is the superior batsman.
You don't. That's fine. It's not important. Certainly not important enough to lash out at a stranger.

Before you reply with another crappy post, think, then maybe get some anger management help --- and learn some manners.

TBF, you just keep moving the goalposts to try and justify your position.

You've been told repeatedly that it was "which Aussies would get a game for England's
WC side based on their performances in this years WC".

Now you're comparing test records FFS!

 

[1989]

Well even though it's doom and gloom we have to remember that with India out we will have a first time winner and even if the winner of this wc wins every world cup from now until 2035 they still will only be catching up to us.

India can catch us in 2031.

Will also take time for another team to win World Cups in Asia, UK, Africa, Caribbean and Australia/NZ.

 

[LeBuddyRoughShow]

The Aussies have struggled since sandpaper gate. Unfortunately, our bowlers cannot swing the ball any more after 5 overs. Smith and Warner are back but the result is the same. The main reason for our decline, is the loss of our 12th and most important player, Mr. Sand Paper