Fantasy Dynasty League 2008 - Discussion

[exe ex machina]

Re: BFDL MKII Discussion Thread

Anyway, can we stop arguing about it now? Like, just let Southern go off and think about what he wants to do. Let him think about everything we've said, and work it out. There's nothing more we can add to it. Except bitching at him. So just everyone stop. And let southern go off and think for a few minutes.

PM me southern.

 

[dspeed]

Re: BFDL MKII Discussion Thread

Anyway, can we stop arguing about it now? Like, just let Southern go off and think about what he wants to do. Let him think about everything we've said, and work it out. There's nothing more we can add to it. Except bitching at him. So just everyone stop. And let southern go off and think for a few minutes.

PM me southern.

And can you pick in our bloody league!

 

[larkis]

Re: BFDL MKII Discussion Thread

Someone with only 4 QBs but shit RBs and WRs is not necessarily going to beat someone who has 1-2 top QBs, a great bunch of RBs and WRs, and LBs and DBs.

, you didn't have to rub it in.
Oh well, I am here for the fun anyway, 4 QB's is just a bonus

 

[Southerntakeover]

Re: BFDL MKII Discussion Thread

You keep 34 players. So you'd be "stuck" with all your players. If you had been told then to render one QB position taken away, and your QBs specifically were top scorers, you'd have resisted and revolted like you are now. Because your WHOLE roster would be set in stone then. Here, you still have two-thirds of your team to fill. There's a million players of great value still to be drafted....LBs, RBs, WRs, TEs, DEs, etc. You already drafted 4/5 QBs. But have a long way to go still in drafting all those other players to fill your team. So your draft isnt ruined because you would now be already going off of QBs and drafting RBs, WRs, TEs, LBs, etc.

Yeah, but i would have been able to step into the draft next year knowing full well what i had to do make the changes, and i would have had a fair opportunity at the best players available to fill the new need my team has.

As it is now, in the position i am, theres no player of equal value to the ones i could have taken had i been given the opportunity to appraise the actual rules.

The new draft is only 6 rounds of rookies and FA's. Your long-term future of your team isn't ruined right now. You still have all those positions to fill out. If you draft poorly from here on out, your team will suck even if you could start 4 QBs. Still 27 players to put on your roster. Do you see what I mean why it's not even ruined or drastically affected at this stage?

Sorry, but it is drastically effected. The value of the players i took are no where near what they were under the previous rules, and as a result i missed out on players who are now worth more.

The entire thing, from first pick to the last has no credibility.

While I understand how 'bad' it is to change mid-stream etc. Think about JD 26/34 and the value of his QBs. Think about your 13/34 and the far lower value of your QBs. You still have a lot of drafting of other positions to make. Many important positions you need to draft good quality.

JD being disadvantaged more makes it worse, not the contrary. I truely believe that JD deserves the benefits of the strategy he chose, since it was freaking brilliant. (and i based my strategy around his blueprint, so im not trying to talk my own drafting up in comparison).

As far as needing good drafting in other positions... again, thats the point. I made the direct strategy of forsaking the WR position as a trade off for the value i would get out of four wide recievers, only to have the rules change disallowing that. Now ive got neither the value of the QBs i drafted, or the quality WRs i missed out on.

Basically.....im saying, 4 good Qbs does not make a winning team. ONE qb taken off from starting isnt going to DRASTICALLY ruin your team winning/losing each week because you have 16 other positions that score points every game.

It drastically changes what was a good draft strategy. You know as well as anyone that seemingly minor changes have large repercussions.

Again, whether or not four qbs would have worked is not really relevant. It was a risk i took, and one i should be able to reap the rewards or face the consequences of.

 

[Southerntakeover]

Re: BFDL MKII Discussion Thread

BTW, id like to address the whole 'having shit RBs and WRs will still screw you'...

Thats the thing, i didnt forgo the RBs at all. I was pretty happy with the way i played it to still end up with Gore and Forte on top of the QBs.

 

[Southerntakeover]

Re: BFDL MKII Discussion Thread

Anyway, can we stop arguing about it now? Like, just let Southern go off and think about what he wants to do. Let him think about everything we've said, and work it out. There's nothing more we can add to it. Except bitching at him. So just everyone stop. And let southern go off and think for a few minutes.

PM me southern.

Yeah, im going to step out of here for a while, and calm down.

 

[exe ex machina]

Re: BFDL MKII Discussion Thread

since it was freaking brilliant. (and i based my strategy around his blueprint, so im not trying to talk my own drafting up in comparison).

Just want to show you something first....

Team Russell
Peyton Manning QB IND
Frank Gore RB SF
Matt Forte RB Chi
Dwayne Bowe WR KC
Phillip Rivers QB SD
Jamarcus Russell QB Oak
Ted Ginn WR Mia
David Harris LB NYJ
Matt Ryan QB Atl
Ahmad Bradshaw RB NYG
Heath Miller TE Pit
Chris Long DE Stl
Ray Rice RB Bal

JDs Domination
Tom Brady QB NE
Reggie Bush RB NO
Drew Brees QB NO
Derek Anderson QB Cle
Matt Hasselbeck QB Sea
Willie Parker RB Pit
Chris Johnson RB Ten
Deuce McAllister RB NO
Tony Gonzalez TE KC
Bernard Berrian WR Min
Donte Stallworth WR Cle
Derrick Mason WR Bal
Shawne Merriman LB SD

You didn't follow his drafting strategy. Secondly, if you did, taking Russell and Ryan as 3rd and 4th Qbs to "take advantage" of the 3 OPs wasn't good drafting. Not ragging on you, or making fun of you, just showing that Russell-Ryan does not = Anderson-Hasselbeck. Thirdly, your draft isn't ruined at all compared to JDs. You still went off after Manning and Rivers and drafted excellent RBs, WRs, TEs, and LBs. While JD was actually far more affected by the reduction of 1 OP slot.

But even in that, think about it....JD and you, are both still not RUINED at all. That one QB drop from OP is about 10-20 pts worth of pts in a game. Instead, that OP slot got replaced by a RB/WR slot. So a RB/WR used in there instead would still get about 10-20 pts per game.

Ie, while it IS a shame to have to change the rule now, it's only ONE player from a starting team of 17. A player that gets replaced by an equally top scoring RB/WR. It's ONE PLAYER. Not the whole OP scrapped, not a reduction of 7 defensive players to 4. Not a reduction of 9 offensive players to 7.

Meanwhile....think about this. You and JD can still HORDE those 4 or 5 QBs to stop other teams scoring pts. Taking them off the board. Also, JD can easily trade one of his QBs (if he wants) for a top RB/WR because other people would be short a decent QB. If a fair trade was negotiated, it wouldn't RUIN his draft in the end, because instead of taking say Frank Gore instead of Anderson, and wishing he had of, he COULD still get a trade that sees him get Frank Gore, say, and the value of that round isn't lost. Likewise, if you're upset about drafting Rivers, say, instead of a top WR, you can always trade Rivers for that RB/WR later. As it is tho, you'd keep Manning-Rivers for sure. In fact, you'd want to still keep Russell and Ryan as QB depth, for LONG-TERM value, in case one of them becomes a star.

Ie, drafting Russell and Ryan WASNT BAD AT ALL still in the long-term.

 

[Southerntakeover]

Re: BFDL MKII Discussion Thread

Just want to show you something first....

Probably not the best idea, when ive finally shut up.

You didn't follow his drafting strategy. Secondly, if you did, taking Russell and Ryan as 3rd and 4th Qbs to "take advantage" of the 3 OPs wasn't good drafting. Not ragging on you, or making fun of you, just showing that Russell-Ryan does not = Anderson-Hasselbeck. Thirdly, your draft isn't ruined at all compared to JDs. You still went off after Manning and Rivers and drafted excellent RBs, WRs, TEs, and LBs. While JD was actually far more affected by the reduction of 1 OP slot.

It was a different draft, i couldnt follow it to a T. I said i copied his blueprint, not the entire strategy. My QBs are weaker than his, no doubt. I had stronger RBs though.

My logic though, right or wrong, was to invest heavily in the first 10 rounds in starting quarterbacks. I had an eighth of the starting quarterbacks tied up early, all of which i could use, making the need for alot of starting WRs non existant. Secondly, whilst Russell and Ryan are not Anderson and Hasselbeck, or even close to them, right now... its a dynasty league. Their long term value might be even higher. As far as not good drafting to take advantage of the OPs, they were amongst the highest predicted points getters available, and have the most long term value. I dont think i want drafting commentary after looking at some of your picks amigo.

BTW, Russell and Ryan were the two i ended up with after the Larks debacle. There were starting QBs i would have taken before them otherwise.

Unfortunately, with the changes, that need is now changed, and my strategy is highly ineffective.

But even in that, think about it....JD and you, are both still not RUINED at all. That one QB drop from OP is about 10-20 pts worth of pts in a game. Instead, that OP slot got replaced by a RB/WR slot. So a RB/WR used in there instead would still get about 10-20 pts per game.

Ie, while it IS a shame to have to change the rule now, it's only ONE player from a starting team of 17. A player that gets replaced by an equally top scoring RB/WR. It's ONE PLAYER. Not the whole OP scrapped, not a reduction of 7 defensive players to 4. Not a reduction of 9 offensive players to 7.

No, theres no RB or WR available now that has the same chance of providing 10-20 points per game, thats complete and utter Rubbish. There may have been at the time i drafted, however, i was denied the opportunity to pick them with full knowledge.

And one player IS a big deal FFS. If there was no big deal, why on earth did you make the change?





Also, i dont think this should be framed directly at whether or not im disadvantaged. The change is wrong on principle, whether i would be disadvantaged or not. Ive got a little credit stored i think on arguing for fairness in the past, when ive asked you not to change the rules on the fly as far as allocating picks went.

 

[Wizard]

Re: BFDL 1 Discussion Thread

Elvis was going to be my next pick Cassius, nearly took him 3 rounds ago actually.

 

[exe ex machina]

Re: BFDL MKII Discussion Thread

Looking at the projections on ESPN....QBs and WRs are about the highest overall pts scorers. QBs aren't like 100-200 pts better than the top RBs and WRs.

Of the top 18 scorers 8 are QBs, and about 4 are RBs, and about 6 WRs.
So a Rivers or Anderson would easily be worth an Andre Johnson or Marques Colston.
As you go further down the list, into the second and third tier of QBs, you see more RBs and WRs than QBs. So someone like Russell/Ryan would be worth, say, a Bobby Engram or whoever.

That OP spot being replaced by a RB/WR spot isnt drastic in context of pts per game.

If I was in your position with your roster, my draft isnt ruined because I WANT Russell and Ryan as future stars. And I was smart enough to draft excellent WRs, LBs, DEs, and RBs. My team is well balanced and I have max 5 QBs to pick and I picked 2 that are stars now, and 2 that are future stars. So from year to year I CAN work around the change in the OP spot. Next years draft I could draft the best QB. You still need depth at QB is what Im saying even if you couldnt start that 4th one. It doesnt hurt your team having 2 top Qbs and 2 young prospects whether you can start 4 or 3. Depth wise, future wise, your QBs are great investments regardless of how many you can start.

It's not really a QB League. There are always tiers in every position. The top 10 QBs score 2x more than the middle of the road QBs. The top WRs score about 2x more than the middle of the road WRs. The top RBs score about 2x more than the middle of the road RBs. Etc.

To say the whole draft is ruined is like complaining that you ended up with the 10th overall pick in the first round instead of the 1st. To say, "now my whole draft is ruined because I had to pick the 10th best player instead of the 1st".....im saying this as analogy of your complaint that your whole draft is ruined at the round 13 stage of a 34 round draft.

 

[Galactic]

Re: BFDL MKII Discussion Thread

This helps me anyway moving on..................

ARE WE ALL DOWN FOR ANOTHER GO THIS SUNDAY NIGHT 8-11pm?

If so, I will do all I can to be here, but if gg is going to be online (he's going to love this) I'll send him my and fuey's picks, just in case I have another "sleep in". Its the 4th of July weekend here and I have an engagement party to attend as well so I'll prepare for the worst case scenario.Just make sure to voice your opinion on yes or no in this thread so I can see if we should go ahead or not. We do need to keep this moving, it's going to be training camp in about 10 minutes and b4 we know it pre season will have begun




Responded-Galactic Fuey Crowman23 Rhyno GeeCats

 

[Delroy]

Re: BFDL III discussion thread

PLEASE RESPOND BY FRIDAY REGARDING A HUGE DRAFTING RUN THIS WEEKEND

Whats good for people ?

I like sun 6-10pm AEST ?????????????

In- Delroy, ScottyD, wce_all_da_way, oscarman

 

[Southerntakeover]

Re: BFDL MKII Discussion Thread

Looking at the projections on ESPN....QBs and WRs are about the highest overall pts scorers. QBs aren't like 100-200 pts better than the top RBs and WRs.

6 of the top 10 are QBs. Thats not bad.

They also punch far above their weight in terms of points offered for pick required to take them, atleast they did when i picked them. (rivers especially).

Of the top 18 scorers 8 are QBs, and about 4 are RBs, and about 6 WRs.
So a Rivers or Anderson would easily be worth an Andre Johnson or Marques Colston.
As you go further down the list, into the second and third tier of QBs, you see more RBs and WRs than QBs. So someone like Russell/Ryan would be worth, say, a Bobby Engram or whoever.

You see more Rbs and WRs, purely through weight of numbers. There are more of them.

As far as Russell/Ryan being less valuable than Engram... if you're rating value based upon a one year prediction for a dynasty league....

However, maybe Engram would have been a better pick IF ID KNOWN I WOULD NEED TO HAVE A WR/RB FLEX WHEN I HAD DRAFTED FFS!

That OP spot being replaced by a RB/WR spot isnt drastic in context of pts per game.

It is when you dont have the RB/WR to put in that spot, because you specifically drafted the QB to fill it.

If I was in your position with your roster, my draft isnt ruined because I WANT Russell and Ryan as future stars. And I was smart enough to draft excellent WRs, LBs, DEs, and RBs. My team is well balanced and I have max 5 QBs to pick and I picked 2 that are stars now, and 2 that are future stars. So from year to year I CAN work around the change in the OP spot. Next years draft I could draft the best QB. You still need depth at QB is what Im saying even if you couldnt start that 4th one. It doesnt hurt your team having 2 top Qbs and 2 young prospects whether you can start 4 or 3. Depth wise, future wise, your QBs are great investments regardless of how many you can start.

Just not as good investments as they were.

Look, im sure i COULD salvage it. Im just not particularly sure i should have to, or that i want to. I would have thought i have a right to expect the same rules to apply at the end of the draft, that applied when i started it.

Fact is, had i known the different rules, then i would have drafted with a different strategy.

It's not really a QB League. There are always tiers in every position. The top 10 QBs score 2x more than the middle of the road QBs. The top WRs score about 2x more than the middle of the road WRs. The top RBs score about 2x more than the middle of the road RBs. Etc.

Sure, but a player who is ranked as a lower tier QB (for now), is capable of performing as well as players who would be on a higher tier of the RB/WR rankings, thats where their value was.

To say the whole draft is ruined is like complaining that you ended up with the 10th overall pick in the first round instead of the 1st. To say, "now my whole draft is ruined because I had to pick the 10th best player instead of the 1st".....im saying this as analogy of your complaint that your whole draft is ruined at the round 13 stage of a 34 round draft.

No.

Random chance is in no way comparable to the wilful manipulation of the league settings midway through the draft.

Also, suggesting that the first 13 rounds dont matter, and that making a change in the middle is unimportant is ridiculous.

BTW, see my reaction to getting pick 14 in the BFFFL II

 

[Southerntakeover]

Re: BFDL MKII Discussion Thread

This helps me anyway

And people wonder why im shitted off.

Noone should be getting 'helped' once the draft starts.

 

[ClarkeM]

Re: BFDL III discussion thread

Ummm i think i might be able to.

 

[exe ex machina]

Re: BFDL MKII Discussion Thread

Look, im sure i COULD salvage it. Im just not particularly sure i should have to, or that i want to. I would have thought i have a right to expect the same rules to apply at the end of the draft, that applied when i started it.

Let's just focus on this. As it's the crux of all the arguing and anger.
Firstly, no one is saying you or JD or anyone else has NO RIGHT to feel that a change mid-stream is a blase who cares change. WE ALL KNOW it's not ideal to do it.
It wasn't done to STOP someone winning. All of us in MK I already knew that JD would score a lot of points, and that we didnt WANT TO change and hurt him, etc.
The reason it came up again (not the first time) is because a couple of people didnt still realize that they could start 4 QBs and kicked up a stink, saying its farcical and that changes should be made etc.
Now, we saw Larkis throw a tantrum when he got given 2 QBs, thinking it was something bad. Threatening to quit. When we told him the OP thing he was happy. And there's bound to be more people in MK II and III who did not realize or got properly explained the rules. As 90% of leagues that people would be used to would be 1-2 QBs starting and no such thing as an OP position.
That's their problem partly and mine for not explaining it well.

What Im driving at is that Im screwed whichever happens----keeping the 3 OP as is, or changing it now to salvage some credibility to the roster. If I kept it, there'd be more and more people suddenly waking up to it and going "well screw that, i didnt realize, that ruins my whole 34 keeper team now, if i'd known that i would've drafted 4 Qbs in the first round, so stuff it, im leaving". If I changed it now, and announced it big enough exactly WHAT the OP position is right now before it gets any further, then people COULD sigh and complain but then realize "well, it's ok, for the league overall, i can salvage it, can think of what's best for the league itself, dont wanna get to the situation where after a full season suddenly everyone wants to quit and leave".

Just asking for people affected by it to be big of them to "take one for the team" a little. Not in the sense of becoming a weaker team, but in the sense of protecting the credibility of the roster, and the desire to have a fun and challenging dynasty league on-going into the future.

 

[exe ex machina]

Re: BFDL MKII Discussion Thread

The thing is, IF everyone knew the rule they would've all said "if i knew i wouldve drafted 4 QBs in the first four rounds".

Ie, all four rounds would've been QB QB QB QB, is what people are saying. We all know that's not true, because you have to draft a full team of stars to be good. But if these people are misguided to think that the only way to win is by drafting 4 QBs in the first four rounds then WE WOULDVE SEEN everyone draft QB QB QB QB.

Ie, them not drafting all QBs shows a lot of people either still didnt realize the OP position, or they're smart fantasy players knowing they still have to draft 30 other players that are top value. That it's NOT a qb league.

There's a thing in Ethics, a conundrum, that says....if you could bring world peace by making one boy miserable in life, would you do it? The story was locking a boy up in a closet to live a life of utter misery.....in exchange for making all the world a happy and fun place for 6.99 billion humans. It's a conundrum in Ethics.

The ethics here is that no one WANTS TO hurt anyone, no one is out to STOP someone from winning. We had to kind of scurry thru setting up the dynasty league, three of them, fill them out, and try to get thru an arduous 34 rounds of drafting in a bit of a hurry before the season started. Me personally, I had so much on my plate with GLB, looking after three drafts, PMing and emailing people all over the place, working, dealing with my girlfriend on the warpath, staying up till 4am all night, not eating, being PM'd a hundred lists by people in 5 different fantasy leagues, etc etc. I APOLOGIZE to all for the change. But I was swamped with everything, and I didnt explain it well enough to everyone, and even MK I didnt fully understand exactly what i was aiming for.

I mean, originally the rule was 3 OP and QBs only scoring 4 pts per TD, which greatly reduced their value to be more REASONABLE in comparison with RBs and WRs, and people didnt get that, that i was aiming for balance SO THAT the 3 OP places didnt get monopolized by the QB spot. So they pushed me to make it 6 pts and didnt get it. And even now still people are waking up to the fact OP means any position.

So in the end....that ideal 4 pts per QB TD unfortunately cannot be introduced. It would've solved everything in the sense of the OP spot. So what else could we do that was REASONABLE to change and better now than later???

The best solution we found was swapping 1 OP spot to a RB/WR spot and KEEPING the QB pts value as is. So that if anyone was affected by having too many QBs they could always trade them because the QB WOULD retain his fantasy value.

Ie, of all the possible options (and knowing people would wake up late still to the OP and complain) the one with the LEAST drastic outcome/affect was this one....changing 1 OP spot to RB/WR and allowing people who drafted that EXTRA qb to be able to salvage their draft. It's not perfect, but it was the most ideal way given all the options.

So im asking you and everyone that it's ok to huff and puff and sigh etc, but just to "harden up" and accept it, move on, and continue on, getting back to the idea of keeping in place a worthwhile dynasty league for years.

 

[exe ex machina]

Re: BFDL III discussion thread

Theres no point doing it unless you get all 12 people able to officially confirm they'll be there. Or that they'd send someone a huge list of players because they cant be there on the day.

But you can still get thru the draft if you can get about 15 picks a day made. The 10 hr time limit is not gonna work in the long run.

There are 58 days till Sept 1. 400 picks in 58 days is about 7 picks a day. But that's not reliable because you still have 6 more players to get in waivers and the commish has to manually go in and assign all the drafted players to the teams.

But roughly 7-15 picks a day would get you there. So just please try to log in often and make picks. If you know you're gonna be busy all day or something, send a small list of about 10 players to someone so they can make the pick for you.

If you CAN arrange a day/tiime to for all 12 people to sit up for 4 hrs, it would be really awesome because you'd get thru about 70-100 picks, and it would really help reduce how many picks per day need to be maintained.

I know one guy is from the USA and is in the Army, so he may not be able to do it. But I can get him to give me a list and I'll pick for him, be here in his place.

We'll see how it goes, the sessions.....but in the meantime log in a lot and make about a round of picks every day.

 

[Dagless]

Re: BFDL 1 Discussion Thread

Hmmmm eventful day to say the least

 

[Dagless]

Re: BFDL 1 Discussion Thread

Still, 308 picks in 14 days running at 22 picks a day... Should be finished by next Wednesday or so, just in time for Waivers...

 

[wce_all_da_way]

Re: BFDL III discussion thread

I'm good anytime however... Saturday/Friday nights could get dodgy. I know it doesn't seem like it, but I really do have outside interests. We'll see though. I am flexible.

 

[Delroy]

Re: BFDL III discussion thread

I'm good anytime however... Saturday/Friday nights could get dodgy. I know it doesn't seem like it, but I really do have outside interests. We'll see though. I am flexible.

lol ok

Ill put you done for sun evening.

 

[Delroy]

Re: BFDL III discussion thread

Theres no point doing it unless you get all 12 people able to officially confirm they'll be there. Or that they'd send someone a huge list of players because they cant be there on the day.

But you can still get thru the draft if you can get about 15 picks a day made. The 10 hr time limit is not gonna work in the long run.

There are 58 days till Sept 1. 400 picks in 58 days is about 7 picks a day. But that's not reliable because you still have 6 more players to get in waivers and the commish has to manually go in and assign all the drafted players to the teams.

But roughly 7-15 picks a day would get you there. So just please try to log in often and make picks. If you know you're gonna be busy all day or something, send a small list of about 10 players to someone so they can make the pick for you.

If you CAN arrange a day/tiime to for all 12 people to sit up for 4 hrs, it would be really awesome because you'd get thru about 70-100 picks, and it would really help reduce how many picks per day need to be maintained.

I know one guy is from the USA and is in the Army, so he may not be able to do it. But I can get him to give me a list and I'll pick for him, be here in his place.

We'll see how it goes, the sessions.....but in the meantime log in a lot and make about a round of picks every day.

Yeh I really want to catch up to MK II a bit tho, just feel if we have a big one this weekend we'll be set.

 

[exe ex machina]

Re: BFDL III discussion thread

For sure, delroy. Ripping off 100 picks in 4 hrs feels really good. MK II caught up with MK I when they had one session. They ended up like 3 rounds behind. Since then MK I has put their foot on the pedal. But yeah, you guys can do about 100 picks in 4 hrs, and if you did two of those this month, you'd probably finish the draft this month.

 

[exe ex machina]

Re: BFDL III discussion thread

Also, Delroy. This league needs a commish. Im only still there just to help out this drafting process. Once its drafted, im out of it, and someone will need to commish it.

So if youre ok with it, im gonna give it to you. Because you already have taken the bull by the horns and seem to be on top of everything.

So, want the job?