You thoughts on the teacher dispute?

[KingsCrow]

I don't think teaching as a hard a job as some are claiming it to be.



Saying that they still deserve the pay rise.




Only thing that concerns me is will it always be like this, as in the 20% claim every 3 years.

 

[KingsCrow]

Why is it that I know 2 teachers that are on 65k + ?

'Just over 30% more then you?


University degree-->No University degree

 

[Geoffa32]

This is a ridiculous thread, started by someyoung upstart who is clearly misinformed on the subject.

Teachers (in the Catholic system in Victoria anyway) are currently on a pay scale that at times requires proof of performance, and procees of application for higher paying roles such as positions of leadership, deputy and principalship, etc.

Teachers that i have worked with rarely arrive at work before 8am and are lucky to be off campus by 5pm on any night of the week (before any take home work). To say that they have 2-3 yard duties at best is incorrect in ost cases. At my current school there is a minimum of 4 per week for full time employees.

The holiday thing always gives me a laugh. Yes we get rewarded with very good holidays, however to state that we get 8 weeks p.a. more is not accurate. When most professions take their holidays they are away from their job for their allotted time (4 weeks in most cases). Teachers are required to plan units, assess, write reports, attend professional development, clean, move rooms / furniture, etc. during that time. Calculate how many of the year's public holidays fall in school holiday time too, it brings the margin back quite a bit you will find.

Just a few thoughts from someone who has a bit more knowledge / experience on the subject.

I dont believe that is the case in the SA public system. That is the problem. There are some great teachers who deserve all that they can get. Then there are the glorified babysitters. I went to public Northern Suburbs schools finishing year 12 over ten years ago and there were plenty of these kind of teachers, I would say the majority.

 

[WheresGroomgone]

'Just over 30% more then you?


University degree-->No University degree

Nowhere near 30% more, given his phone, car allowance and comission he also said 40,000plus so what is that 41,000 or 48,000 either way factor in his conditions and as a "junior" he is on sweet street compared to a student in their second year of a teaching degree or a second year teacher after four years of uni.

65,000 is it, as in as much as you can earn and it takes ten years to get to that level, after four years of University and then you also have your HECS debt to pay back.

Another couple of years work and Frying Pan will be earning more than a teacher who has been working for ten to twenty years!!!

 

[KingsCrow]

Nowhere near 30% more, given his phone, car allowance and comission he also said 40,000plus so what is that 41,000 or 48,000 either way factor in his conditions and as a "junior" he is on sweet street compared to a student in their second year of a teaching degree or a second year teacher after four years.

65,000 is it, as in as much as you can earn and it takes ten years to get to that level, after four years of University and then you also have your HECS debt to pay back.

Another couple of years work and Frying Pan will be earning more than a teacher who has been working for ten to twenty years!!!

I am on your side.


But you guys do get more holidays, long service, sick days etc.



I find the situation hard to think about, I do think teachers deserve more, but it just isn't feasible to do a uniform pay rise of a significant amount. Thats why the 'performance' testing makes sense to me.

 

[fryingpan]

A couple more years and I'll be earning more than a teacher who's been working for 20 years? Gee, why don't you exaggerate a bit more?

In a couple more years I'll be on a wage similar to what I'm on now (slight chance my pay will go up by 1 or 2k but that's as far as it'll go)

It will take me well over a decade to get to the 65-70k mark.

 

[Alex99]

I am on your side.


But you guys do get more holidays, long service, sick days etc.

How so?

My mum is a school teacher and during the last school holidays she has to go to Port Pirie, Cooper Pedy and Roxby downs and it was all work related, and none of it was written off as toil (time off lieu for Training and development). And just this last week she has flown back to Cooper Pedy over night. Holidays? What holidays?

Saying teachers have it easy, anyone who suggest this clearly hasn’t spent much time behind the desk or known someone closely enough to see how hard they actually do work.

 

[Alex99]

A couple more years and I'll be earning more than a teacher who's been working for 20 years? Gee, why don't you exaggerate a bit more?

In a couple more years I'll be on a wage similar to what I'm on now (slight chance my pay will go up by 1 or 2k but that's as far as it'll go)

It will take me well over a decade to get to the 65-70k mark.

With all due respect, so you should.

If your education doesn’t allow you to move up the corporate ladder, that’s no one fault but your own. You sound bitter because you’re doing an education based (you’re the one who is working with disadvantaged or disabled kids right) job but not getting the rewards and benefits.

 

[WheresGroomgone]

A couple more years and I'll be earning more than a teacher who's been working for 20 years? Gee, why don't you exaggerate a bit more?

In a couple more years I'll be on a wage similar to what I'm on now (slight chance my pay will go up by 1 or 2k but that's as far as it'll go)

It will take me well over a decade to get to the 65-70k mark.

No not exaggerating at all, work it out yourself; what's your phone allowance worth $200 a month? $2000 a year. Your car allowance, well only you know what that involves but if it's a car, rego ,insurance and fuel that is quite a figure, add in your commissions on top of your $40,000plus wage and in your second year of work you're very close to a teacher who has been working 20years who is capped at $65,000, who doesn't get taken out on the turps by their employers!

 

[fryingpan]

With all due respect, so you should.

If your education doesn’t allow you to move up the corporate ladder, that’s no one fault but your own. You sound bitter because you’re doing an education based (you’re the one who is working with disadvantaged or disabled kids right) job but not getting the rewards and benefits.

Bitter? How do I sound bitter? I'm very comfortable with my job at the moment thanks.

 

[WheresGroomgone]

I am on your side.


But you guys do get more holidays, long service, sick days etc.



I find the situation hard to think about, I do think teachers deserve more, but it just isn't feasible to do a uniform pay rise of a significant amount. Thats why the 'performance' testing makes sense to me.

It is a fact that there are poor teachers in the system I am not disputing that, by how is that any different to other groups of workers applying for a new agreement, I dare say there are also ordinary nurses, police officers perhaps even doctors in the system, does this performance argument come up when they negotiate a new agreement?

Yes something needs to be done in many occupations regarding poor performers but until that system has been revised why do the thousands of excellent workers get penalised?

 

[Alex99]

Bitter? How do I sound bitter? I'm very comfortable with my job at the moment thanks.

I am not talking about now; i am taking about what is available for you in the future. I suspect you’re bitter because you’re not going to move any higher without getting better qualifications and teachers are fighting for this and you will not receive any.

That’s why i said you sounded bitter.

 

[fryingpan]

I am not talking about now; i am taking about what is available for you in the future. I suspect you’re bitter because you’re not going to move any higher without getting better qualifications and teachers are fighting for this and you will not receive any.

Well you suspect wrong. If I stay in this job for another 15 years, I will be on around 65-70k and that's more than enough for me when I'm 35. I could probably be happy living on that but am confident that I could find work elsewhere offering more than that but that's in 15-20 years so I'll cross that bridge when I come to it.

Now, before this thread is derailed any further into a fryingpans wage thread (told you it'd happen) let's get back to the topic at hand!

 

[Southerntakeover]

If I stay in this job for another 15 years, I will be on around 65-70k

So basically, you, despite the fact that you havent ever achieved any level of qualification, could reach the top payrate of teachers.

Despite this, you've got the nerve to come on here and complain that they are trying to improve their deal, knowing full well that theyve had to do far more to get where they are than you have.

 

[fryingpan]

So basically, you, despite the fact that you havent ever achieved any level of qualification, could reach the top payrate of teachers.

Why do you keep assuming I haven't reached any level of qualification? I didn't go to Uni, that's all.

Despite this, you've got the nerve to come on here and complain that they are trying to improve their deal, knowing full well that theyve had to do far more to get where they are than you have.

I've got the nerve to have an opinion, mm yes good one. You're not very good at dealing with differing opinions from yours are you? PS. What's the deal? You're up before midday?

 

[Southerntakeover]

Why do you keep assuming I haven't reached any level of qualification? I didn't go to Uni, that's all.

Because its true.

I've got the nerve to have an opinion, mm yes good one. You're not very good at dealing with differing opinions from yours are you? PS. What's the deal? You're up before midday?

Its not so much you having an opinion, its how ridiculous your opinion is in the face of the facts.


Ps... I didnt work last night, and my Philadelphia Eagles are playing in about 10 minutes.

 

[fryingpan]

Because its true.

Well you obvsiouly don't know me as well as you think you do

I didnt work

Shouldn't that be don't ?

 

[Southerntakeover]

Well you obvsiouly don't know me as well as you think you do

Prove me wrong.

Shouldn't that be don't ?

No, shouldnt.

Ive been working nights since i ended uni for the year, get with the times.

 

[acuguy]

I just want someone else to get on here and say they have an undergraduate degree, have nearly completed their masters in their chosen field and about to enter their7th year in the profession and still earn only 62 thousand dollars. Teaching is a joke, do i regret getting into teaching? Of course i do! I know i have a positive impact on the lives of kids, i don't measure that through academic success or sporting success, i measure by when i walk through the school and have a hundred kids say good morning to me with a big smile on their face. As a parent all i want is for my children to want to go to school. If a teacher helps that happen then they are worth every single cent and more because my kids are more important to me then anything and i would feel cheated if the people responsible for them are paid terribly.

To all those bagging teachers please state your job and your wage, i wish to discuss your worth!

 

[King Elvis]

Exactly.

And if we want to make schools glorified day care centres, then lets not be surprised by the results they achieve.

Don't forget, SA teachers, the pay is $84 863 in WA at the start of 2011. You don't have to go regional or remote for that, that is the pay for an 8 year experienced teacher in any location...you wont get to see many Crows or Power games though...

That's obviously very relevant - luckily, the cost of living, and especially housing, in Perth & Adelaide is absolutely identifcal.


Acuguy - market forces, performances indicators and reviews dictate my wage. The better I do my job, or the more responsibilities I take on, the more my salary increases (and bonuses tied to profit), but I don't get re-classified and paid more simply because I've worked there for another year.

That being said, I have no problems with qualified, experienced and capable teachers earning very good incomes (say around $80k) - they deserve it.

 

[StuPendus]

That's obviously very relevant - luckily, the cost of living, and especially housing, in Perth & Adelaide is absolutely identifcal.


Acuguy - market forces, performances indicators and reviews dictate my wage. The better I do my job, or the more responsibilities I take on, the more my salary increases (and bonuses tied to profit), but I don't get re-classified and paid more simply because I've worked there for another year.

That being said, I have no problems with qualified, experienced and capable teachers earning very good incomes (say around $80k) - they deserve it.

Firstly I admire teachers and what they do as well as what some of them have to put up with.

But the union here is dictating their members not the other way around.

Teachers in WA might be getting $80k+ a year but don't forget that WA have been getting royalties from their mining boom for years now whereas we have yet to see ours. It all comes down to what you can afford.
Even with theses royalties it also appears from reports today that even they are more than likely are to be going into deficit next year, and we all know what happens when that occurs.


So if they get their way, something like $2 billion extra has to be found and something else has to be cut from the budget.

And PS try and sell your home here and buy something similar with what you get for it in Perth.

 

[Southerntakeover]

That's obviously very relevant - luckily, the cost of living, and especially housing, in Perth & Adelaide is absolutely identifcal.


Acuguy - market forces, performances indicators and reviews dictate my wage. The better I do my job, or the more responsibilities I take on, the more my salary increases (and bonuses tied to profit), but I don't get re-classified and paid more simply because I've worked there for another year.

That being said, I have no problems with qualified, experienced and capable teachers earning very good incomes (say around $80k) - they deserve it.

Yet, despite the cost of living its seen as far more attractive to live in other States than in Adelaide...

Or why is noone making the cost of living arguement when it comes to footballers leaving?

 

[raskolnikov]

Surprising I didn't see a thread on this so I thought I'd ask what everyone thinks of the whole situtation.

Personally I think the teachers over-value themselves. Rejecting their first offer of 12% (I think it was 12) over 3 years got me angry but for the government to offer them $14.2 over 3 years and again have it rejected by the teachers is an utter disgrace. Who the hell do they think they are? I'd KILL for 12% over 3 years but that's not good enough for them?? They work less than 40 weeks in a year and finish work at 3.30pm. Yes I know that they still take work home with them but what professional doesn't take work home with them these days? And the whole "teaching is a stressful profession" shit that they dribble. EVERYONE IS BLOODY STRESSED! I've got to put up with mongrel clients and employers that verbally abuse me every day for god sake whilst working long hours and sometimes even have to GO INTO WORK on a weekend, you wouldn't know anything about going into work on a weekend would you teachers?

I could go on about this topic for days and days but I'll only get myself worked up because it's something I'm very passionate about. Would like to hear your thoughts.

Thanks for demonstrating how little you know about the profession fryingpan. Students may go home at 3.30 but most teachers rarely leave before 5. We have do marking, preparing lessons, tidying classrooms, reports, portfolios and other things. Also there is usually at least one staff meeting a week which can go to 6 o'clock. We also have a lot of extra curricular activities. Parent-teacher interviews, sports and camps. I spend most weekends during the term in at school, or at least doing stuff at home.

I spent six years at university and my nephew who dropped out of school at yr 9 and now works in a call centre makes almost as much as me. In contrast other professions where you need to spend six years at university, doctors, lawyers and engineers make twice as much.

I'd like to know why you are so passionate about it. Did a teacher of yours tell you you would never amount to anything and it turned out to be true? Poor fella. I really hope you can knock that chip off your shoulder because it really seems to be weighing you down and making you very bitter.

 

[raskolnikov]

Will say it again bring in a performance based system.

And how are you going to define a good performance? At one of the schools I taught at 80% were first generation Aussies with English as a second language. The staff were doing a great job yet if compared to nationwide results the school would still not rate highly.

 

[King Elvis]

Firstly I admire teachers and what they do as well as what some of them have to put up with.

But the union here is dictating their members not the other way around.

Teachers in WA might be getting $80k+ a year but don't forget that WA have been getting royalties from their mining boom for years now whereas we have yet to see ours. It all comes down to what you can afford.
Even with theses royalties it also appears from reports today that even they are more than likely are to be going into deficit next year, and we all know what happens when that occurs.


So if they get their way, something like $2 billion extra has to be found and something else has to be cut from the budget.

And PS try and sell your home here and buy something similar with what you get for it in Perth.

I was being sarcastic mate

What you've said is obviously spot on; comparing wages without taking into account the differing costs of living is a waste of time.