It's Time To Go... Rick Hart

[Clay Davis]

If we didn't have Warnock We wouldn't have got the picks .

It was not a watse of a pick , it has shown a profit so far.

No, Ripper.

Warnock was a dud pick because 3 years later he wanted to leave, without giving us any decent performances in the meantime. If he was a decent player that was still at the club, we'd have an extra best 22 player coming into the peak of his abilities. Instead we have two kids. Relative to the players we've drafted who've gone on to do nothing, he was a win. But as it stands now, he was a loss.

 

[sportsmaniac89]

This was something I posted at another forum. I could be ill-informed concerning this and I would expect any sane Docker fan to correct my inaccuracies but this was my summary of all the drafts Schwab and Connolly were involved

2001 Draft
Trent Croad & Luke McPharlin for Pick 1, 20 and 36
Troy Simmonds & Jeff Farmer for Daniel Bandy and Pick 17
Heath Black (to St Kilda) for Pick 17
Daniel Schell (to Adelaide) for Peter Vardy (Melbourne)

Graham Polak - Pick 4
Andrew Browne - Pick 52
Paul Medhurst - Pick 56

Pretty piss poor performance really. Yeah Heath Black eventually came back to Freo and Luke McPharlin and Jeff Farmer played at the club for years but really.............. Croad? Simmonds? Polak? Medhurst? Where are they now? Elsewhere. What did we get for them? Future years will show that we didn't get what we should've.

Players missed out on - James Kelly, Dane Swan, Jimmy Bartel, Luke Hodge, Luke Ball, Chris Judd, Steve Johnson, Nick Dal Santo

2002 Draft
Leigh Brown (to Roos) for Pick 13
Adam McPhee (to Essendon) for Pick 55
Des Headland for Pick 3 and 19

Byron Schammer - Pick 13
Greg Edgcumbe - Pick 48
Ryan Crowley - Pick 55
Brett Doswell - Pick 63

Rookie Elevations - Aaron Sandilands, Roger Hayden and Andrew Siegert

Well really, what can be said here? We traded with the full intention of trying to make finals. Fancy farewelling a couple of then promising youngsters in Brown and McPhee. Has Des Headland delivered? Sure, he's played some good games but nowhere near enough to justify the Pick 3 (Jarred Brennan) and Pick 19 (Troy Selwood). As for drafting, well 2 good players in Crowley and Schammer but 2 players who never played a game. The Rookie elevations saw a couple of gems in Sandilands and Hayden

Who we missed out on - Jarrad McVeigh, Nick Malceski, Jarred Brennan

2003 Draft
Trent Croad (to Hawthorn) for Pick 10
Steven Koops (to Dogs) for Pick 19

Ryley Dunn - Pick 10
Ryan Murphy - Pick 12
David Mundy - Pick 19
Adam Campbell - Pick 27
Brett Peake - Pick 43

Michael Johnson - Pick 8 PSD

Rookie Elevations - Daniel Gilmore, Luke Webster

In terms of players drafted this was one of the better drafts. Picking up Mundy, Campbell (though has never fulfilled potential), Murphy (similar to Campbell) Peake and Johnson was good. The one though that makes me go WTF is Croad for Dunn essentially. I mean that'd be the worst decision I've ever come across

Players we missed out on - Amon Buchanen

2004 Draft

Josh Carr for Pick 11, 27 and 45
Troy Simmonds for Heath Black

Benet Copping - Pick 59
Toby Stribling - Pick 67
Daniel Haines - Pick 69

Jarrad Schofield - Pick 5 PSD

Rookie Elevation - Steven Dodd, Dylan Smith

Cry me a river. Seriously, of all the drafts that you could mess up, this would be the worst of all time. There is no way whatsoever that a player is worth 3 draft picks and the fact that we gave up 3 draft picks, shows how pathetic Connolly and Schwab really were. Carr has since returned to Port Adelaide and this would go down as one of the worst drafts. We picked up no-one that has contributed to the Freo cause, except for medical bills.

Players we missed out on - Nathan Van Berlo

2005 Draft

Marcus Drum - Pick 10
Garrock Ibbotson - Pick 26
Robert Warnock - Pick 42

Rookie Draft - Paul Duffield (Pick 7) and Toby Stribling (Pick 23)

Seriously, this is a drafting effort that almost comes out 50/50. Ibbotson and Duffield have been gems, Drum has since fallen out with Mark Harvey and Warnock chased the big bucks at Carlton. Overall, can't read too much into this particular draft

Players we missed out on -

2006 Draft
Chris Tarrant for Paul Medhurst and Pick 8
Graham Polak and Pick 13 (to Richmond) for Pick 8

Clayton Collard - Pick 31
Brock O'Brien - Pick 52
Calib Mourish - Pick 77

Rookie Draft - Andrew Foster (Pick 28), Chris Smith (Pick 13), Darren Rumble (Pick 42), Benet Copping (Pick 53)

This was the last Schwab/Connolly draft and really you've gotta wonder. Trading away a KPP like Polak, seriously WTF is with that? Trading a player and top 10 pick for Chris Tarrant. No player is worth that. As for the draft picks, absolute rubbish all round.

Players we missed out on - Kurt Tippett, Alwyn Davey, Lindsay Thomas, Josh Hill

Now, amoung all that waffle that I've just written, you quickly come to the realisation as to why we're currently in the shithouse. We have no depth as a result of all those picks traded away for players that haven't always delivered. Also the common theme is the lack of drafting of KPP players. This has set us back many, many years.

Mark Harvey has started to correct this horrible situation but really we're a long way away. I hope that people look at this before making ill-informed comments on the Fremantle Football Club and their current predicament

 

[dominguez]

The list is thin when you have to add back in the New players.

The fact is that they were there when he coached his first game.

If we trade our first 3 picks + Mundy this year for 4 established players no one would be scratching their heads wondering where the improvement came from next season.

The worry with Murphy , Mundy , Peake , M.J etc is they appear to have stagnated or gone backwards.

About the same as 2007 I'd say.

I have already demonstrated that the list was turned over at least as much as it has been recently.

Not through the national draft. 8 selections is equal to or greater than any 2 consecutive drafts combined under Connolly/Schwab.

The occassional piece of gold is found in the rookie draft but most of the nuggets come from the ND and all the clubs except for Fremantle, North and Richmond realised that years ago.

 

[Ripper]

No, Ripper.

Warnock was a dud pick because 3 years later he wanted to leave, without giving us any decent performances in the meantime. If he was a decent player that was still at the club, we'd have an extra best 22 player coming into the peak of his abilities. Instead we have two kids. Relative to the players we've drafted who've gone on to do nothing, he was a win. But as it stands now, he was a loss.

How do you know if we finish poorly again that 16 players won't put their hands up to be traded like they did in2001?

 

[Clay Davis]

How do you know if we finish poorly again that 16 players won't put their hands up to be traded like they did in2001?

I don't know that. How could I know that?

You've been adept at dodging the question. Obviously the state of the list isn't Connolly and Schwab's fault, and we should put statues of them outside Freo Oval because they brought us to a single finals win.

 

[Ripper]

I don't know that. How could I know that?

You've been adept at dodging the question. Obviously the state of the list isn't Connolly and Schwab's fault, and we should put statues of them outside Freo Oval because they brought us to a single finals win.

There is the 37 players used that won the two games in 2001.
16 were that dispirited they wanted to be traded.

http://finalsiren.com/Fixture.asp?TeamID=11&SeasonID=2001&Go=Go

There is the 40 players used in 2007.

Most people thought they were a shot (including Harves ) in 2008.

http://finalsiren.com/Fixture.asp?TeamID=11&SeasonID=2007&Go=Go

 

[Clay Davis]

This was something I posted at another forum. I could be ill-informed concerning this and I would expect any sane Docker fan to correct my inaccuracies but this was my summary of all the drafts Schwab and Connolly were involved

Not bad. In 2005 we missed out on Shaun Higgins and Shannon Hurn, who were picked after Drum.

 

[Clay Davis]

There is the 37 players used that won the two games in 2001.
16 were that dispirited they wanted to be traded.

http://finalsiren.com/Fixture.asp?TeamID=11&SeasonID=2001&Go=Go

There is the 40 players used in 2007.

Most people thought they were a shot (including Harves ) in 2008.

http://finalsiren.com/Fixture.asp?TeamID=11&SeasonID=2007&Go=Go

What is your point? That Harvey had more to work with in 2008? Matt Carr, Peter Bell, Heath Black, Shaun McManus, Jeff Farmer were all at the end of their careers. There was no talent in their early 20s. Hasleby and Headland got injured.

It was so dire last year, that our best midfielder was a first season player. That didn't happen at any point in Connolly's reign. He had Hasleby, Pavlich and Bell to run through the midfield in 2002. We had a kid in 2008.

 

[Ripper]

What is your point? That Harvey had more to work with in 2008? Matt Carr, Peter Bell, Heath Black, Shaun McManus, Jeff Farmer were all at the end of their careers. There was no talent in their early 20s. Hasleby and Headland got injured.

It was so dire last year, that our best midfielder was a first season player. That didn't happen at any point in Connolly's reign. He had Hasleby, Pavlich and Bell to run through the midfield in 2002. We had a kid in 2008.

Now they are uninjured and still on the list. Can't see how you can blame the previous admin for injuries.

What I am more concerned about is where has the team that finished off 2008 so promisingly gone apart from into the record books?

The team that played Adelaide was Older (23y 311d -23y 186d) and had more experience ( 1627-1423games)than the team that lost to the Kangaroos by 1 point in round 15 2002 away.

Anyway lets hope they rebound strongly this week, I need a cheer up . I don't think I have been that disappointed for a long,long time.

 

[smkwd]

Just keep choking the chicken, Ripper... that'll cheer you up for a while...

 

[Clay Davis]

Now they are uninjured and still on the list. Can't see how you can blame the previous admin for injuries.

Where the hell am I doing that?

What I am more concerned about is where has the team that finished off 2008 so promisingly gone apart from into the record books?

Fremantle teams always finish promisingly. Anyone who looks at our end of season form and thinks it will carry through into the next year is silly.

The team that played Adelaide was Older (23y 311d -23y 186d) and had more experience ( 1627-1423games)than the team that lost to the Kangaroos by 1 point in round 15 2002 away.

Look at the core of players he had to work with:

McManus, Shaun
Bell, Peter
Cook, Troy
Farmer, Jeff
Simmonds, Troy
Walker, James
Koops, Steven
Carr, Matthew
Grover, Antoni
Hasleby, Paul
Longmuir, Justin
Hayden, Roger
Haines, Daniel
McPharlin, Luke
Pavlich, Matthew
Brown, Leigh
Woods, Dion

Versus what Harvey has:

Peake, Brett
Dodd, Steven
Murphy, Ryan
Schammer, Byron
Duffield, Paul
Mundy, David
Bradley, Kepler
Broughton, Greg
Ibbotson, Garrick
Ballantyne, Hayden
Hinkley, Clayton

The team was strong in the core age groups before Connolly arrived, and it was augmented by trading away picks for players (Croad, McPharlin, Farmer, Simmonds). Is that you think Harvey should have done? Traded away some picks for established players to boost the core? Then we'd be looking at a more respectable 13th finish like we had in 2002.

I am not saying Connolly didn't do a good as coach job when he arrived, but he left the state of the list an absolute shambles, and given that he never took us to a premiership, his coaching record shall forever be graded on that.

 

[smkwd]

This is the 22 that beat West Coast by 5 goals late last year:

Luke McPharlin
Byron Schammer
Josh Carr
Shaun McManus
Matthew Pavlich
Jeff Farmer
David Mundy
Kepler Bradley
Garrick Ibbotson
Steven Dodd
Michael Johnson
Rhys Palmer
Mark Johnson
Brett Peake
Paul Duffield
Aaron Sandilands
Chris Mayne
Ryan Crowley
Chris Tarrant
Antoni Grover
Scott Thornton
Ryan Murphy

Compare that to the 22 that ran out on the park against Adelaide. Half the side is missing through retirements or injury, and from what's left most of them are playing poorly. You could say that only Tarrant, and to a lesser extent Duffield, is having a consistent season.

That's why we got belted on the weekend. No depth. The task for the club is to figure out how to rectify it.

 

[Chops_a_must]

Put your pants back on Ripper!

I've never read anybody so utterly deluded.

 

[The Night Shift]

Put your pants back on Ripper!

I've never read anybody so utterly deluded.

nice to see you out of the dog box CAM

Rip, your loyalty is admirable even if I do not totally agree with you...

 

[bigkev bleeds purple]

Anyone who wants to march down to Fremantle Oval in a lynch mob and off Rick Hart's head as a knee jerk reaction to an inexperienced team getting belted away from home against a serious contender... *unable to finish post due to violent vomiting*

 

[Chops_a_must]

Anyone who wants to march down to Fremantle Oval in a lynch mob and off Rick Hart's head as a knee jerk reaction to an inexperienced team getting belted away from home against a serious contender... *unable to finish post due to violent vomiting*

A symbolic gesture after 15 years of crap could barely be called a knee jerk...

 

[Clay Davis]

Anyone who wants to march down to Fremantle Oval in a lynch mob and off Rick Hart's head as a knee jerk reaction to an inexperienced team getting belted away from home against a serious contender... *unable to finish post due to violent vomiting*

We're only asking that someone be accountable for the continued poor performance by the club on the field. Or should the motto of the club be "Freo - no one cares what you do here".

 

[tek87]

What the **** does Rick Hart got to do with it. Good players make good teams. Jeesh.

 

[The Night Shift]

Anyone who wants to march down to Fremantle Oval in a lynch mob and off Rick Hart's head as a knee jerk reaction to an inexperienced team getting belted away from home against a serious contender... *unable to finish post due to violent vomiting*

What's bugging you today BK??
Why is questioning a long term presidents position a knee jerk reaction..?

 

[anchor man]

What's bugging you today BK??
Why is questioning a long term presidents position a knee jerk reaction..?

If BK has to explain it to you then he would be wasting his time talking to you.And your time because you would still not understand what he is saying.
I am trying to find a Rick Hart in the Record from last Saturday.Can anyone tell me his number,was he a late inclusion?

 

[The Night Shift]

sarcasm is the lowest from of wit.. seemingly like you're wit champ

 

[dominguez]

The team that played Adelaide was Older (23y 311d -23y 186d) and had more experience ( 1627-1423games)than the team that lost to the Kangaroos by 1 point in round 15 2002 away.

Isn't that an indication of how bad the list was when Connolly left?

That 2002 side would have had atleast 5 top 10 picks in it with 3 or 4 pre-seasons under their belt so they were ready to play, where as Harvey's side had a bunch of kids, the plodders from 2003 discussed earlier and a couple of guys who look near the end like Grover and McPharlin.

 

[dominguez]

If BK has to explain it to you then he would be wasting his time talking to you.And your time because you would still not understand what he is saying.
I am trying to find a Rick Hart in the Record from last Saturday.Can anyone tell me his number,was he a late inclusion?

A football club can't go to the trade table instead of the draft year after year without the boards approval. Rick's the chairman of the board, so should be held accountable for our current plight.

Big Rick had the best intentions but he was manipulated by a snake oil salesman.

 

[Belnakor]

The problem is Rick isn't a rocket scientist, and Schwabby was obviously a bit too slick. But he needs to go, someone needs to held accountable for the Connolly/Schwab era.

 

[bigkev bleeds purple]

NF, I apologise for raising my qualm with this in a thread you started because I know you are a good supporter with the purest intentions. But...

I) How much input do you honestly think Rick Hart has in match day performance? His responsibility is to make sure that the club is running well off the field. The fact that we are still a powerhouse off the field despite the fact we are not doing any good on the field at the moment is surely a great endorsement for our chairman.

II) This topic has been raised eleventy billion times. Of all the times it has been brought up, how many of them were in the days following a win? Whether it is your intention or not, it just smacks of "I'm angry we lost and I want to hold someone responsible..."