Dismantling of Cat empire

[Ricmel]

i thought same when i was reading the article.

it's really making ESS look extremely unethical in a public domain. the thing is, .

When I first heard of the way essendon got Mal Michael from Brisbane (despite any spin that was put on this) I felt the AFL should have acted to stop draft manipulation.

Because in essence you are right. If there are obvious loopholes, unscrupulous people will jump through them. I hope the current situation with Tarrant makes the AFL look at this matter again because the draft at the moment is just being used as a big stick by some.

 

[randyzany]

"Thompson has also made no secret... of his less-than-flattering opinion of Cook's performance in recent times..."

What is this about? I reckon Cook is one of the better CEOs. What would Bomber be cricising him for?

Regardless, I reckon he was definitely burnt out. Losing the plot with various others is usually a symptom.

Back to the OP, it's a real shame the way the Cats have imploded. Have had a lot of respect for them as an organization, a club and a team.

Probably pulled it out of her own arse. As a kangas supporter I would've thought you'd be familiar with the quality of her *ahem* work.

This sad-excuse of a human being should be working for a women's gossip mag and not employed as a "chief" *s******s* football writer of a newspaper.

 

[morgoth]

When I first heard of the way essendon got Mal Michael from Brisbane (despite any spin that was put on this) I felt the AFL should have acted to stop draft manipulation.

Because in essence you are right. If there are obvious loopholes, unscrupulous people will jump through them. I hope the current situation with Tarrant makes the AFL look at this matter again because the draft at the moment is just being used as a big stick by some.

The AFL has already moved to rectify this, its called limited free agency which in time will become unrestricted.

The AFL knows it is one court challenge away from having its trading system torn down. It's why they backed Ball last year in his stance and gave the AFLPA what they wanted.

The AFL can't act to stop it because it is in the wrong to begin with.

 

[Hodgepodge]

interesting piece

How do you do that?

 

[morgoth]

Probably pulled it out of her own arse. As a kangas supporter I would've thought you'd be familiar with the quality of her *ahem* work.

This sad-excuse of a human being should be working for a women's gossip mag and not employed as a "chief" *s******s* football writer of a newspaper.

They always say it is linked to the footy review. Coaches are weird birds, they do not like to be questioned in any form and the review seems to have really got his nose out of joint. It worked, thats all that should matter.

Bit like MM and his rumblings over the sucession plan, got him focussed and fired up and got a flag.

 

[Walesy]

Close. But he was going to a new role, so it wouldn't have affected him.

Anyhoo, move on.

Going to a different role, or pushed into a role he didn't really want? I guess we'll never know.

 

[vinum coupe]

New to internet forums hodgepodge?

 

[randyzany]

How do you do that?

It's a hyperlink. Don't know what the code for it is as it doesn't come up when you quote a post but you can highlight a text and then press the icon below the white smiley to insert the link.

 

[Ricmel]

The AFL has already moved to rectify this, its called limited free agency which in time will become unrestricted.

The AFL knows it is one court challenge away from having its trading system torn down. It's why they backed Ball last year in his stance and gave the AFLPA what they wanted.

The AFL can't act to stop it because it is in the wrong to begin with.

I don't think free agency resolves this...as I understand it anyway. Free agency will only apply to players with a certain number of years/games at a club? Maybe no more that 5-10% of players in any one year.

 

[Hodgepodge]

It's a hyperlink. Don't know what the code for it is as it doesn't come up when you quote a post but you can highlight a text and then press the icon below the white smiley to insert the link.

Awesome, thanks.

 

[morgoth]

I don't think free agency resolves this...as I understand it anyway. Free agency will only apply to players with a certain number of years/games at a club? Maybe no more that 5-10% of players in any one year.

It pretty much does. My memory of it is that players outside the top 10 who meet the criteria will be able to move to their club of choice. Neither Ball or Tarrant would have met this classification and as such no drama's.

This will only be the first step, it will eventually become unrestricted free agency and all players will be able to move after a certain period.

No one has the right to tell someone where they will work. Fine, during the first 5 years call it an apprenticeship but after that free to go.

 

[adelaidecrows]

I dont think there was a footy expert around after the 2009 premiership that thought Geelong will win another premiership. The signs were there that they were no longer holding onto the image of being unbeatable.

In 2010 there were alot of signs that they could be beaten regularly which was highlighted by the Adelaide Crows win. The cats started to look a little old, injuries started playing a part and they struggled against teams with outright pace.

The dismantling of the off field team was just as likely to happen as the on field team. Mark Thompson indicated on several occasions over the years that this was his last contract. Perhaps the fact he has decided to call it quits a year early is what has suprised many. It was pretty obvious he would choose to resign once the cats missed a grand final berth due to the fact he has no intentions of trying to rebuild a side. Mark was better off calling it quits early rather than staying on next year and the cats finish 9th, it would be a stain on what has been a pretty successful three seasons. I dont see how ending up at esendon is betrayal or essendon being ruthless. Its a completly different job from coaching and as such if he chooses not to coach any more then whats the problem.

The president was always retiring anyhow so i dont know why he is being put in the same boat and as usual some of the assistant coaches often leave at seasons end.

 

[Ricmel]

No one has the right to tell someone where they will work. Fine, during the first 5 years call it an apprenticeship but after that free to go.

I don't disagree with this but to me you go one or the other.

If you are going to have a draft, a system designed to level the playing field, then the rule should be simple, if you nominate for it, you nominate with no conditions other than you receive fair market value for your services.

Otherwise, it should just be free agency with a salary cap in place.

 

[Dogs Rule]

Damn it, I love that band.

Pablo, Pablo!

 

[Lance Uppercut]

I wonder how much of the Caro argument is true? I'd hope Bomber Thompson doesn't go to Essendon and develops property or whatever. I hope Caro gets egg on her face, and is sued by someone she claims lied. Sadly, it's probably that she's on the money, Bomber will return to Essendon and we'll have a liar as coach (correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Hird lie about his intentions when Knights was still coach?), liar as senior assistant coach (he'll have lied to Geelong if he comes to Essendon) and another assistant who's broken a contract to go to the bombers. I don't know why that bothers me. I guess it's a business, and the business is winning, but I find the whole Knights getting an extra 2 years when there was no reason, Knights getting knifed by Essendon heavies, Hird bullshitting about not agreeing to coach, Knights getting sacked, Hird inducing people to break contracts (McCartney, Corcoran?) and be on his team, those induced bullshitting as well as breaking contracts, a bit shiteful. To put it midly.

That's assuming that Hird did lie and Bomber comes to Essendon, like McCartney has done.

Something's fishy in all this.....

i thought same when i was reading the article.

it's really making ESS look extremely unethical in a public domain. the thing is, such behaviour goes on in corporate enterprise everyday..............the players are just not asked about their intentions by the media everyday as has been the case with Hird and Thompson.

oh pulease

Get a grip of yourselves, seriously. Unethical, liars, what a load of crap. it's a competitive industry. The system is designed to take you down. You need to do everything in your power to stop that happening, or to take you back up the ladder when you get the chance. Essendon supporters should know this better than anyone. We got "dismantled" after '01. It is vital the clubs look after their members interests, and if that involves weakening other teams to strengthen your own, so be it.

Essendon are acting ruthlessly and getting the best talent they can. They should be applauded. No-one is holding a gun to Thomson or McCartney's head. If Geelong had what they want, they'd stay.

No-one will have a bad taste in their mouth if it's successful

You two can sit around holding hands singing Koombayah if you want, just let Essendon get on with the business of winning premierships.

 

[morgoth]

I don't disagree with this but to me you go one or the other.

If you are going to have a draft, a system designed to level the playing field, then the rule should be simple, if you nominate for it, you nominate with no conditions other than you receive fair market value for your services.

Otherwise, it should just be free agency with a salary cap in place.

There is one thing you are missing. The current system and the one you propose would not stand up in court. The AFL know it, the AFLPA know it and most importantly the player managers know it. They get clients by delivering what players want so they know how to play the game.

Conners knew the AFL would do nothing re Ball or Tarrant because they will not take the risk of the whole system being pulled down.

 

[thegrach]

It has been a bit of a fall. However, it is not empire over unless they drop off next year.


To this stage, they made yet another preliminary final after making 3 straight GF's (winning 2).

We are witnessing what seems to be the start of the crumble....but GEelong was always about a lot more than just Gary Ablett or just Mark Thompson. Until they actually start losing, I consider them a quality opponent.



In the end, if Collingwood is as successful over the next 2 years as Geelong were between 2007-2010, then bring it on I say!


Instead of jumping in to throw knives in the coffin, I reckon we should pay a bit of respect to a side which has dominated the comp for 4 years. And it may not be over yet

Quality post

 

[mcgarnacle]

I don't disagree with this but to me you go one or the other.

If you are going to have a draft, a system designed to level the playing field, then the rule should be simple, if you nominate for it, you nominate with no conditions other than you receive fair market value for your services.

Otherwise, it should just be free agency with a salary cap in place.

In the comps which introduced the draft in the US, the draft is a mechanism to distribute only the new highly sought after players into the league. the AFL have taken the concept to the next 3 levels whereby every single player is introduced via the draft and ever player at any stage of his career (ex the very few that go via trade or once in a bluemoon event to a brand new club) is distributed via the draft.

Established uncontracted players with x amount years of service (I say 6 yrs) in the league should be FREE to choose where they want to play without having the indignity to be used as a bargaining piece of meat in club negotiations. Get rid of the inefficient minimum 92.5% TPP and watch another dimension of salary cap mgmt unfold.

It'll also go a long way to making a given season competitive rather than have this gap between good and bad, and rid the situation of having very few premiership contenders the AFL in any year. It allow bad performing teams with room under the cap to snag good uncontracted established players to improve sooner, and will spread the talent further across the league rather than a few clubs hoarding them all.

 

[Ricmel]

There is one thing you are missing. The current system and the one you propose would not stand up in court. The AFL know it, the AFLPA know it and most importantly the player managers know it. They get clients by delivering what players want so they know how to play the game.

Conners knew the AFL would do nothing re Ball or Tarrant because they will not take the risk of the whole system being pulled down.

You may be right but the compounding problem is the football public start to take notice. If the draft is seen to be manipulated, they WILL do something about it eventually.

 

[Ricmel]

In the comps which introduced the draft in the US, the draft is a mechanism to distribute only the new highly sought after players into the league. the AFL have taken the concept to the next 3 levels whereby every single player is introduced via the draft and ever player at any stage of his career (ex the very few that go via trade or once in a bluemoon event to a brand new club) is distributed via the draft.

Established uncontracted players with x amount years of service (I say 6 yrs) in the league should be FREE to choose where they want to play without having the indignity to be used as a bargaining piece of meat in club negotiations. Get rid of the inefficient minimum 92.5% TPP and watch another dimension of salary cap mgmt unfold.

It'll also go a long way to making a given season competitive rather than have this gap between good and bad, and rid the situation of having very few premiership contenders the AFL in any year. It allow bad performing teams with room under the cap to snag good uncontracted established players to improve sooner, and will spread the talent further across the league rather than a few clubs hoarding them all.

Again it would only fix half the problem. Whilst the AFL allows players to go into a draft with conditions attached to themselves, the risk a mockery being made of the process.

 

[irukandji]

If Hinkley gets the senior job it's hard to see Sanderson sticking around - so that would be yet another change.

Ablett leaving is obviously not good for the Cats but once that's happened they need to move on and renew. Thompson and a coaching turnover is a good thing. They need to re-invent their game-plan and possibly start to re-build their list. I don't think they can win another flag with the current list so the questionable thing is retaining Milburn and possibly Wojcinski and Mooney. They must believe they can win again with this list - it is not impossible.

 

[stugots]

So whats the point?

yeh


karo & 'ethics', lolz

 

[morgoth]

You may be right but the compounding problem is the football public start to take notice. If the draft is seen to be manipulated, they WILL do something about it eventually.

Don't matter what the public or AFL say. This is Australia you cannot force people to work for someone who they do not want to. As long as the players agree to it it survives but as soon as a player(s) decide to challenge it its over.

Public can kick and scream all they like, the law is the law.

 

[Ricmel]

Don't matter what the public or AFL say. This is Australia you cannot force people to work for someone who they do not want to. As long as the players agree to it it survives but as soon as a player(s) decide to challenge it its over.

Public can kick and scream all they like, the law is the law.

You are confusing two matters. Would the draft stand up to a legal challenge? Maybe not but remember, players are not "forced" to play with anyone, they are tied to a process IF THEY WANT TO PLAY AFL. There are many employment situations like this.

Should the AFL adjust draft rules if the current rules are being maipulated? Yes they should.

Does point two mean a legal challenge under point 1? No it doesn't. The AFL has a history of working with the players on these things.

 

[TheKITC]