List Mgmt. 2014 list discussion - drafts, free agents, trades, retirees, delistings and more

[Big Tom 2013]

It looks like this draft isn't a good one after the early picks. Hine basically said he doesn't rate it after the top 15 and there's no way Hampson is worth anywhere near a top 30 pick in a decent draft. Perhaps Wells has a couple of specials up his sleeve though.

Geez, that's a shame. I was led to believe it was a deeper pool of talent this year.
As you say, Wells hopefully has his eyes on a couple of sneakies

 

[CatTricks]

Wtf?? Richmond duped big time-was bloody awful last season, couldn't get near it

Rekon they wanted his misses more than him.

 

[Big Tom 2013]

Rekon they wanted his misses more than him.

Yeah, heard a few people say that-she's already said she's given up barracking for the blues, now a tiger girl

 

[Jon Douglas]

What ever people say you can be sure that quite a few ND picks will make it as senior players. Sure the top 15 are very likely to make it but there will be some picked up between 15 -50 that will make it.

So Wells could still pick up a player or two.

Just look at Tsitas - rated by many phantom draft anywhere between 25-40. Same true of Bundy Jnr.

Yet both could end up being good players at AFL level.

What is being said really it is hard to pick after pick 15 who are likely types to make it. May suit Wells.

 

[JUBJUB]

Rekon they wanted his misses more than him.

Well they need a good looking Gale at the club

 

[Hot Tin Roof]

Buddy's new shoes.​

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AFL Approved ​

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Get a grip on an uneven playing field ​

 

[THE CAT WRANGLER]

What ever people say you can be sure that quite a few ND picks will make it as senior players. Sure the top 15 are very likely to make it but there will be some picked up between 15 -50 that will make it.

So Wells could still pick up a player or two.

Just look at Tsitas - rated by many phantom draft anywhere between 25-40. Same true of Bundy Jnr.

Yet both could end up being good players at AFL level.

What is being said really it is hard to pick after pick 15 who are likely types to make it. May suit Wells.

We need to be more aggressive and get exyptra picks or we will get mid range picks an good players we need another couple of champions 2 inside mids & key chb we need to help Wells out by trading for lower picks

 

[The Quandrinator]

Sorry Quandrinator but you've picked a bad example in Jimmy

I've followed Jimmy's career with some affection since that mark in the 02 VFL grand final

Firstly Jimmy was made to take the hard road because Bomber felt he had an air of "belonging" he was lazy and slow, so he was made to work harder than the rest.

He was shopped around as a trade option at the end of 03 with The Blues showing the most interest

In 04 in a game at home against Freo (in the wet) I boldly announced to everyone at a BBQ that Jimmy would one day win a Brownlow
Lost $500 in 05 lost $500 in 06 made $7500 in 07

GHS just doesn't do it for me in the same way.

Sorry - I don't get how that's a bad example. It's exactly my point. He was not considered a goer in his early days. A bit of a slow starter - a tad up and down, a bit too cute sometimes, a bit like Guthrie one might say! He was considered to be a bit above himself and an under performer at the top level.

I didn't realise we offered him up but for one reason or another he stayed at the club.

I'm saying we need to keep these youngsters. I think Schroder for example is a really good shot for a Brownlow and captaincy one day. Others have him on the trade table because he couldn't push his way past Bartel and Selwood and start grabbing 30 possies a game in the big league!

In fact a couple have got us getting rid of the whole VFL team!

 

[Vdubs]

Sorry - I don't get how that's a bad example. It's exactly my point. He was not considered a goer in his early days. A bit of a slow starter - a tad up and down, a bit too cute sometimes, a bit like Guthrie one might say! He was considered to be a bit above himself and an under performer at the top level.

I didn't realise we offered him up but for one reason or another he stayed at the club.

I'm saying we need to keep these youngsters. I think Schroder for example is a really good shot for a Brownlow and captaincy one day. Others have him on the trade table because he couldn't push his way past Bartel and Selwood and start grabbing 30 possies a game in the big league!

In fact a couple have got us getting rid of the whole VFL team!

You might, I don't see that in Guthrie at all.

 

[Vdubs]

Opinion

Varcoe and T.Hunt for Troy Menzel from Carlton

no way.
As soon as Troy does his ACL again, we have that deja-vu all over again.

 

[The Quandrinator]

Geez, that's a shame. I was led to believe it was a deeper pool of talent this year.
As you say, Wells hopefully has his eyes on a couple of sneakies

Wellsy has a different outlook to most! It's a good thing if other clubs give up after pick 15, he can be sure to get his first few choices. Another Stokes at pick 61? Lingy at 38? Enright at 47 perhaps

 

[Vdubs]

I'd love to have a fit Simpson or another ruck of real quality, West in the club as a second ruck (we've hardly ever been able to use him as that) and Blitz running the pants off their best defenders (ie float the guy into the front half and get him to run all day until their fittest player HAS to pick him up - we'd need to teach him to kick well but that's where I see him in the long run)

[Note I've given up on HMac for now - hope he proves me wrong]

I keep thinking we've been unfair to Westy - let's just agree - he's a mile better option than Blake!!

I'll bite- I have no doubt Blake would have beaten him easily in ruck contests.
West is so out of favour that Geelong played Blic in finals, despite a broken bone in his wrist.
Right or wrong decision- that's debatable- I say right. Point is, West is much overrated by some of our fans, and certainly not by our MC.
What we do know is West is at Best, a # 2 follower.

 

[The Quandrinator]

You might, I don't see that in Guthrie at all.

That he was a slow starter? Hard to argue with that. A bit cute with some of his plays? I think he was actually over-reading things sometimes but that's how it appeared to me. (Maybe I was a bit ambiguous with that sentence )

 

[Vdubs]

That he was a slow starter? Hard to argue with that. A bit cute with some of his plays? I think he was actually over-reading things sometimes but that's how it appeared to me. (Maybe I was a bit ambiguous with that sentence )

I saw Guthrie in his first game v Saints, that shocker of an opener, and liked what I saw day 1. He displayed speed, tenacity and a touch of class, nothing slow or cute, and I believe he has evolved as his game time has increased.

 

[The Quandrinator]

I'll bite- I have no doubt Blake would have beaten him easily in ruck contests.
West is so out of favour that Geelong played Blic in finals, despite a broken bone in his wrist.
Right or wrong decision- that's debatable- I say right. Point is, West is much overrated by some of our fans, and certainly not by our MC.
What we do know is West is at Best, a # 2 follower.

I've said that over and over about Westy - I see him as a mobile big man who can ruck. He provided a fantastic outlet from attacking presses and was a good target roaming the wing. As a ruck he was mediocre but at least he followed up the ball, knows the basic principle of 'to advantage' and could actually kick and hand pass.

West copped a lot of flack when he couldn't win more than 50% of taps as a primary ruck man. To me that was just unfair on the guy. That was McIntosh's job or Daws - criticise them!

Blake would beat West to the tap but not to the ball on the ground! And if it was a kicking and hand passing contest, Blake would have no hope!

Anyway - I think West's utility is redundant with both Blitz and Vardy fit. They do that same mobile big man thing, but better.

 

[The Quandrinator]

I saw Guthrie in his first game v Saints, that shocker of an opener, and liked what I saw day 1. He displayed speed, tenacity and a touch of class, nothing slow or cute, and I believe he has evolved as his game time has increased.

I've always liked what I've seen but he's had some pretty ordinary games too. Unlike some on here, I've been prepared to say "beginner's mistake". He's copped an absolute bagging on this and some other forums in the past

 

[Vdubs]

I've always liked what I've seen but he's had some pretty ordinary games too. Unlike some on here, I've been prepared to say "beginner's mistake". He's copped an absolute bagging on this and some other forums in the past

More for clangers or coughups, but I never saw him as slow or reticent.
I don't agree with the general baggings our players get, more relevant with Guthrie.

 

[Seeds]

I'll bite- I have no doubt Blake would have beaten him easily in ruck contests.
West is so out of favour that Geelong played Blic in finals, despite a broken bone in his wrist.
Right or wrong decision- that's debatable- I say right. Point is, West is much overrated by some of our fans, and certainly not by our MC.
What we do know is West is at Best, a # 2 follower.

West is a better ruckman then Blake. Remember a game where Fraser was smashing Blake in the ruck. Put West on him and he creamed Fraser in the ruck. west was dropped the next week.

 

[beckhamsam69]

I'm not keen on Shaw and I don't think we'll get Adams. Is it time to give the trades a miss this year (in fairness we're not as good in this area as drafting, and I think that there's a limited range of opportunities for the club this trade period) and just stick to our guns and draft? Who comes up from our list to fill the void?

I think Kersten,Smedts,Caddy,Simpson,Varcoe & perhaps GHS should play most games this season, even if we slip a little down the ladder because of it. Can't finish top 2 every year.

 

[Nicko29]

I'm not keen on Shaw and I don't think we'll get Adams. Is it time to give the trades a miss this year (in fairness we're not as good in this area as drafting, and I think that there's a limited range of opportunities for the club this trade period) and just stick to our guns and draft? Who comes up from our list to fill the void?

I think Kersten,Smedts,Caddy,Simpson,Varcoe & perhaps GHS should play most games this season, even if we slip a little down the ladder because of it. Can't finish top 2 every year.

We can and we will .

 

[Turbocat]

beckhamsam69 , Ive been an advocate of a Wells shuffle for a while . The way this period is going its quite possible that GWS end up with 1,9,19 , 21,....... so if we cant get a trade for layer going maybe this is an option.

But I'd be surprised if we don't bring someone in . Docherty for instance or some other kid in the right age group.

 

[keen cats fella]

I think I'm bucking the trend here in saying that I would really like to keep both Taylor Hunt and Varcoe. People have very short memories regarding Hunt - at the start of the year he was playing very well and I recall Scott saying in an interview that he doesn't just like what he offers defensively, but also offensively. Who knows, perhaps a run with role isn't his most suited but I really like his no bullshit approach and the fact that he makes his tackles stick. Give him a preseason and watch him next year - I'm sure some will forget they ever wanted to trade him.

Varicoe is an interesting one. I've always been a fan of him, perhaps more than he has deserved. He does have great value to our team and is (usually) so damaging with the ball. Enough has been said about him on this board, but like Hunt, after a preseason of hard work (and a massive kick up the arse) he will be back to playing his role for the team. I think people are forgetting what he can bring to our side when in touch (but I completely understand the counterargument that his last two seasons provide, but this is injury related).

I remember the excitement last year surrounding how genuinely quick our team could be - Varcoe, motlop, hunt, Murdoch and smedts is a lot of linebreaking. Throw in other relatively quick guys like bundy, stokes, etc and this is a very exciting team. Of course, pace isn't vital but with our game plan looking to be built around pressure and moving the ball from end to end, it is certainly a good thing. At least Varcoe, motlop and hunt should be absolute locks, hopefully smedts and Murdoch will be by the end of next year too. Our starting lineup come round one will provide a great deal of intrigue.

 

[The Quandrinator]

More for clangers or coughups, but I never saw him as slow or reticent.
I don't agree with the general baggings our players get, more relevant with Guthrie.

Again we're in violent agreement. I have certainly never declared Guthers 'slow' or reticent. I've heard he's one of the quicker ones at the club. I think he looked a couple of times like he was being flashy but I think he was trying to invent stuff that he obviously could see unfolding. If a guy like that then puts a ball rolling around in the corridor and he gets scored against , he looks like a goose. Now he's hitting those targets more often than not and more people are starting to understand what he was trying to do!

Anyway - my whole point in the first place was that last year a lot of the fans here and elsewhere were calling for the heads of Guthrie, Stokes and even Christensen. Now they're calling for GHS, Schroder, Cowan etc. They must be of the impression that the coaching staff are idiots - I don't know. If Frank Costa and Brian Cook reckon Cowan could be the next big thing and Schroder is a great young leader, then I'll give that the nod for a while coz I'm betting they know more than me.

These guys are the future just as much as Bartel was in 2003. I'll trust the club to make the calls

 

[Vdubs]

Again we're in violent agreement. I have certainly never declared Guthers 'slow' or reticent. I've heard he's one of the quicker ones at the club. I think he looked a couple of times like he was being flashy but I think he was trying to invent stuff that he obviously could see unfolding. If a guy like that then puts a ball rolling around in the corridor and he gets scored against , he looks like a goose. Now he's hitting those targets more often than not and more people are starting to understand what he was trying to do!

Anyway - my whole point in the first place was that last year a lot of the fans here and elsewhere were calling for the heads of Guthrie, Stokes and even Christensen. Now they're calling for GHS, Schroder, Cowan etc. They must be of the impression that the coaching staff are idiots - I don't know. If Frank Costa and Brian Cook reckon Cowan could be the next big thing and Schroder is a great young leader, then I'll give that the nod for a while coz I'm betting they know more than me.

These guys are the future just as much as Bartel was in 2003. I'll trust the club to make the calls

I agree with all you say.
Am all for giving those we have selected ample opportunities in correct positions, unless it's glaringly obvious they are doomed to not succeed.
I would love nothing more than BROWN,Cowan, DS, Shroder, GHS, Murdoch, Hamling , Kersten et al to become regular good players in the senior team. Brown in particular.

 

[SleazySimon]

I think I'm bucking the trend here in saying that I would really like to keep both Taylor Hunt and Varcoe. People have very short memories regarding Hunt - at the start of the year he was playing very well and I recall Scott saying in an interview that he doesn't just like what he offers defensively, but also offensively. Who knows, perhaps a run with role isn't his most suited but I really like his no bullshit approach and the fact that he makes his tackles stick. Give him a preseason and watch him next year - I'm sure some will forget they ever wanted to trade him.

Varicoe is an interesting one. I've always been a fan of him, perhaps more than he has deserved. He does have great value to our team and is (usually) so damaging with the ball. Enough has been said about him on this board, but like Hunt, after a preseason of hard work (and a massive kick up the arse) he will be back to playing his role for the team. I think people are forgetting what he can bring to our side when in touch (but I completely understand the counterargument that his last two seasons provide, but this is injury related).

I remember the excitement last year surrounding how genuinely quick our team could be - Varcoe, motlop, hunt, Murdoch and smedts is a lot of linebreaking. Throw in other relatively quick guys like bundy, stokes, etc and this is a very exciting team. Of course, pace isn't vital but with our game plan looking to be built around pressure and moving the ball from end to end, it is certainly a good thing. At least Varcoe, motlop and hunt should be absolute locks, hopefully smedts and Murdoch will be by the end of next year too. Our starting lineup come round one will provide a great deal of intrigue.

what's about Taylor Hunts disposal? Isnt anyone as frustrated as I am? It has cost the side plenty of goals at crucial stages. Is it just me or is it the worst at the club in some time? The youth have a lot to live up to having just witnessed the clubs greatest era, but I don't think ive seen anyone butcher the ball quite as bad. Hes played over 50 games now so I cant see it improving.