List Mgmt. 2013 Trading & Free Agency

[Elite Crow]

For those in the know, what are the knocks on Matt Crouch, for someone who averages high 30's possessions he's not really touted as a top 10 pick, is his disposal average?

I think it's a lack of speed

 

[CROUCH #2]

For those in the know, what are the knocks on Matt Crouch, for someone who averages high 30's possessions he's not really touted as a top 10 pick, is his disposal average?

Gets plenty of the ball, disposal is all mainly handball but will always find him at the bottom of a pack. Has not got brads speed but has the same qualitys as joel selwood (wont become as good as joel). Perhaps matt may hold enough potential to take thompsons spot in 2 years

Would love to see the crouch brothers playing through our midfeild together

 

[WAG]

Gets plenty of the ball, disposal is all mainly handball but will always find him at the bottom of a pack. Has not got brads speed but has the same qualitys as joel selwood (wont become as good as joel). Perhaps matt may hold enough potential to take thompsons spot in 2 years

Would love to see the crouch brothers playing through our midfeild together

Thanks Matt.

 

[Mismatched]

Whilst on the surface losing 3 players for a pick might not seem balanced, we have picked up Betts without a player lost.

We will also gain 2 players off the rookie list and to this point have only lost Johncock from the main list.

 

[CROUCH #2]

If we cant get a top 10 pick but land a trade that will see us gain a pick around pick 20 thete could be a chance to get billy hartung... perfect wing player from what im told.

 

[Vader]

I am interested in your self confessed great track record in evaluating players. As I stated previously, calling all of our low draft picks and rookie elevations spuds is pretty clever since less than 20% of such players across the AFL get to play more than 50 games. As I recall it you assured us that Petrenko would never play 50 games. Jaensch, Martin, Tambling, Riley, Johnston, L. Thompson, McKernan and Lynch should all have been delisted at the end of 2012 if not before. More recently you have given Lyons the kiss of death which almost certainly assures him of a long AFL career.

I was wrong in predicting that Petrenko wouldn't make it to 50 games. I was 100% correct though in pointing out all of his career limiting deficiencies at a time when 90% of the board were fapping over him as the "next big thing" - deficiencies which are now clear & obvious to all, with Petrenko having dropped out of favouritism as a result. I may have been wrong with one particular specific, but I still regard this call as being substantially correct.

Lynch & LJ were never on any list I produced, so that's a pure work of fiction on your behalf - maybe a list of players facing "make or break" seasons in 2013 (Lynch = make, LJ = neither), neither were ever going to be delisted. Tambling's delisting was always predicated on him being out of contract last year, as was widely (but incorrectly) believed. I don't remember Thompson being on any list last year, particularly after his finals series - his 2013 SANFL performance certainly put him in the delisting column though.

As for the others.. you're putting words in my mouth that I never said. That's called a strawman and it's a pathetic attempt to discredit me. I never said that they were all going to be delisted. I said that they were "at risk" of being delisted, depending upon how deep the club wished to go in the draft. Those comments were also made before the Tiprat penalties were known, which cost us our first two draft picks. Had we kept those, then two of those players would no longer be on our list and we wouldn't be in the conundrum we're in today.

As an aside, Lynch is the only player on that list who I would have regretted seeing delisted in 2012 - or 2013 for that matter. LJ did just enough in the last month of the season to extend his career by another 12 months. The others are all very much in the dead wood category and could/should be delisted this year - to have them on our list in 2014 would be shameful and a failure of list management.

So.. thank-you for helping me to prove the success of my track record, even though you had to stoop to the lows of a strawman to do it.

It will be great watching the draft this year; Pick 81 the Adelaide Football Club. pick 82 the Adelaide Football Club, pick 83 the Adelaide Football Club...............and finally pick 90 the Adelaide Football Club.

This is why we need to be trading for multiple picks, so that we're not a) forced to retain all of our dead wood, or b) forced to go deep in the draft after everyone else has finished upgrading their rookies. Thank-you for so eloquently proving my point.

 

[StonesThrow]

This is trade week/month:

- How about Mackay + Jaensch + Martin + McKernan (they're after a KPF!) for Nate Fyfe?
- Rowe is an imbecile of the highest order. Why does anyone even listen to him?
- Rowe has a source saying 'player X' is heading to the crows for X amount. Interesting! Thoughts?
- When has Rucci ever been right?
- Rucci says 'player X' is being shopped around. Interesting! Thoughts?
- I overheard someone in a Cafe suggesting 'player Y' is lazy
- Player Y is lazy. I dont want him at my club!

etc etc

 

[Wood_Duck]

He looked much better at the end of the season. All at sea first up.

Put him in the Hawthorn side, see how he goes.

 

[WAG]

Self reach-around.

God you're a bore!

 

[Mego Red]

God you're a bore!

I wish we had mods who could move all this crap to its own thread. I couldn't care less about this back and forth.

 

[Team DJ]

Doing the trades you've listed leaves us short on depth (required for success in the short term), while failing to deal with the excess of dead wood which has been allowed to accumulate over the last 3 years due to draft dodging (in the GC/GWS years) and Tiprat penalties.

We need to strike a better balance between acquiring talent and ridding ourselves of the dead wood. Giving up 3 players for a single pick is downright stupid from a list management perspective. Granted, Aish will move us forward in the future, but it totally screws our chances in 2014.

Putting off the delistings is a bad way of managing the list. Next year we'll probably be looking at the retirements of Rutten & Thompson. Graham will be coming out of contract and will be on the chopping block. Callinan can't possibly survive on our list in 2015. LJ is probably only 50% at best to survive. They'll also be looking at Siggins & Atkins with a fairly critical eye. It's a whole new set of list management issues, without the need to have extra delistings hanging over our heads because we failed to take action this year. We're only talking about 2 extra draft picks next year and you're talking about retaining 4-5 dud players - the maths just doesn't add up.

Ideally we need to be trading individual players for multiple selections, not multiple players for single selections - that's the problem with having so much dead wood on our list in need of culling.

This is the problem that Noble faces in managing our team list - finding a balance which is generally missing from most of the trade suggestions here on BF.

Vader youre wrong.
If you have the chance to get a top pick you do what you need to.
Our premiership window isnt next year. It probably isnt the one after either.
I think it opens in 2016. WHen all of those guys are off the list. So who cares if we are short on depth next year if it means we bring in the 2nd best kid. Who cares if we delist 8 players next year instead of 5 or 6? We sign a free agent or 2, maybe promote a performing Rookie and go into the draft with a complete set of 4 or 5 picks.

Could you imagine David Noble coming out in a Presser and saying to all the fans, Yeah we had the chance to get Aish this year at the expense of Vince McKay and Henderson. We chose against this however because we wanted to delist Aiden Riley instead.

 

[Team DJ]

To be fair, I was responding to KE's post suggesting that our selectors had to be brain damaged for not having him in our best 22 players, when the fact is that he's not in our best 28. Suggesting that it is KE himself who is brain damaged would be grounds for an infraction on the grounds of personal abuse...

I don't agree with every decision that the selectors made this year. I thought they held onto both Mackay and Porplyzia for far too long before they were finally relegated to the SANFL.

But when it comes to the youngsters, the selectors have a far better idea of what they are and are not capable of - and how they're coping with the AFL games that they are playing (and Lyons coped particularly badly due to his lack of fitness).

I see his strengths. I also see his deficiencies, which appear destined to limit his AFL career - a lack of pace, a lack of fitness and downright ordinary disposal by foot. Those are career terminal failings. I also acknowledge that his lack of fitness meant that he struggled to recover from the AFL games he did play - something which his fanbois refuse to believe or acknowledge. His strengths are such that he'll always star at state league level, but when the pace of the game goes up (as in the AFL), his failings are exposed.

He's not the messiah, he's just a naughty little boy.

Just out of curiostity.
1) Have you ever seen Lyons play in the SANFL?
2) Do you know what team he plays for in the SANFL?

1 out of 2 isnt a pass mark

 

[radiojake]

I wish we had mods who could move all this crap to its own thread. I couldn't care less about this back and forth.

It certainly gets annoying trying to find the latest news/gossip on trading only to read another adelaide board shitfight...

 

[Vader]

Just out of curiostity.
1) Have you ever seen Lyons play in the SANFL?
2) Do you know what team he plays for in the SANFL?

1 out of 2 isnt a pass mark

1. No.. but I have seen him play in the AFL. Unfortunately, the ABC didn't broadcast any Norwood vs Glenelg games this year.
2. Glenelg.

 

[Mego Red]

If we can trade three 20c pieces and get a dollar coin, we have to do it every time.

 

[Team DJ]

1. No.. but I have seen him play in the AFL. Unfortunately, the ABC didn't broadcast any Norwood vs Glenelg games this year.
2. Glenelg.

As i said 50% isnt a pass mark.
So youre entire thoughts on Lyons come from a handful of AFL games. And what the selectors have done????

Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha.
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha.

Please refrain from speaking about Lyons as if you are an expert anymore.

 

[Cleric]

I get what your saying here and it makes some sense, however there is no way in hell that if we somehow miraculously get pick 2 that we would trade that away, none.
There is a reason we are trying to get this pick, its for Aish not to off load it to Brisbane for pick 7 and a player that has done SFA in 3 years.
Polec is that steak knives not the steak.

Thats not an overly crazy idea. Would you rather Aish or Crouch + Polec?
I would be more tempted to go for Crouch and Polec.
If we did trade away Vince + Lyons + Hendo for pick 2 I would want more than one good prospect back for those outs.

 

[Sanders]

If we can trade three 20c pieces and get a dollar coin, we have to do it every time.

Every... Single... Time

 

[Vader]

Vader youre wrong.
If you have the chance to get a top pick you do what you need to.
Our premiership window isnt next year. It probably isnt the one after either.
I think it opens in 2016. WHen all of those guys are off the list. So who cares if we are short on depth next year if it means we bring in the 2nd best kid. Who cares if we delist 8 players next year instead of 5 or 6? We sign a free agent or 2, maybe promote a performing Rookie and go into the draft with a complete set of 4 or 5 picks.

Could you imagine David Noble coming out in a Presser and saying to all the fans, Yeah we had the chance to get Aish this year at the expense of Vince McKay and Henderson. We chose against this however because we wanted to delist Aiden Riley instead.

I love the idea of getting pick #2... ignoring for now the fact that we have 0% chance of getting it. Yes, it's on the market - but packaging up 2-3x B-grade players isn't going to get the job done (and none of the players we're offering are even remotely close to A-grade).

Who do you propose we "bring in" next year, given that you'd have sold off Vince, Mackay, Henderson, Smack & Wright? Selecting Tambling, Jaensch, Martin & Riley is a waste of time, some would argue the same for Callinan & Pets - what's the point of pumping games into players who won't be there in 12 months time? As for the others, Atkins, Siggins & CEY are miles off being ready. Aish could come in - but you'd want to be careful in managing him, particularly given his slender frame (and yes, I have seen him play - albeit on ABC TV). Polec, maybe, assuming he's not on the injury list. Shaw, maybe - same assumption. Betts is a definite inclusion. Betts & Aish would replace the 2x best 22 players we'd be losing, but we would have absolutely no replacements worth selecting if anyone gets injured.

What you propose leaves us short of depth, with little in the way of youngsters to bring in, while not doing anything to resolve our ever accumulating pile of dead wood. At some point we have to bite the bullet and offload these players in order to move forwards - and we can't keep putting it off until next year. The dead wood pile is already at a critical mass, occupying at least 20% of our senior list. Next year will bring it's own list management issues, before you compound it by adding this year's issues.

List management is all about balance. There's no point in having 4x gun midfielders if the rest of the team is complete crap because you sold the farm to buy the guns. Carlton sold the farm to buy Judd - and have barely made a finals series since then.

 

[Cleric]

Gets plenty of the ball, disposal is all mainly handball but will always find him at the bottom of a pack. Has not got brads speed but has the same qualitys as joel selwood (wont become as good as joel). Perhaps matt may hold enough potential to take thompsons spot in 2 years

Would love to see the crouch brothers playing through our midfeild together

Hes an interesting prospect. He is a tough, tough, tough hard inside player. He gets heaps of the ball, and hasnt had a TAC game where he didnt get over 30 possesions and multiple 40 + games. Knightmare has him rated lower down the draft order than Aish but has him rated as a possible better player. I would look at his ratings pretty closely. I think he is a talent identifier for one of the clubs.

 

[CROUCH #2]

Melbourne could trade pick 2 for harly benell, think crows chances of gaining pick to are slim... still think we need to off load players to gain some round 2 picks and try package up to get a 1st rounder to get matty crouch. .. would vince & lyons be worth losing for a 1st round pick

 

[Mad Fan of AFL]

A couple years ago, did the AFL explain why trade week was extended? Anyways i like how noble is not giving up hints our activity. Despite craving for some gossip, i imagine this is for the best

 

[Team DJ]

I love the idea of getting pick #2... ignoring for now the fact that we have 0% chance of getting it. Yes, it's on the market - but packaging up 2-3x B-grade players isn't going to get the job done (and none of the players we're offering are even remotely close to A-grade).

Who do you propose we "bring in" next year, given that you'd have sold off Vince, Mackay, Henderson, Smack & Wright? Selecting Tambling, Jaensch, Martin & Riley is a waste of time, some would argue the same for Callinan & Pets - what's the point of pumping games into players who won't be there in 12 months time? As for the others, Atkins, Siggins & CEY are miles off being ready. Aish could come in - but you'd want to be careful in managing him, particularly given his slender frame (and yes, I have seen him play - albeit on ABC TV). Polec, maybe, assuming he's not on the injury list. Shaw, maybe - same assumption. Betts is a definite inclusion. Betts & Aish would replace the 2x best 22 players we'd be losing, but we would have absolutely no replacements worth selecting if anyone gets injured.

What you propose leaves us short of depth, with little in the way of youngsters to bring in, while not doing anything to resolve our ever accumulating pile of dead wood. At some point we have to bite the bullet and offload these players in order to move forwards - and we can't keep putting it off until next year. The dead wood pile is already at a critical mass, occupying at least 20% of our senior list. Next year will bring it's own list management issues, before you compound it by adding this year's issues.

List management is all about balance. There's no point in having 4x gun midfielders if the rest of the team is complete crap because you sold the farm to buy the guns. Carlton sold the farm to buy Judd - and have barely made a finals series since then.

This post proves that you just read what you want to.
My initial post stated exactly what i would bring in and send out. You obviously just picked out 1 or 2 key sentence that you got up on your ill informed high horse about and got on a rant.

Again, my most recent post speaks of why deals of this nature would not alter the opening of our potential premiership window in anyway shape or form. As all of the Dead Wood and "B" Graders would be off our list by the time it opens anyway, all the while we have added some of the best young players in the competition to our list anyway.

 

[The Sloane Ranger]

Anyone think that Lyons could be an exchange for Tapscott

 

[Team DJ]

Would be super dooper interested to see how many posters have actually seen Matt Crouch play.
My guess would be less then 40%