Racism, I need educating

[DNine]

I have often discussed my point to racism, and no one has explained it to me. I just don't think people I have spoke to so far really understand the answer, or fully the question.

Racism is a terrible thing that people participate in, I get that. I don't consider myself a racist.

I understand that people who are subject to racial taunts have in their family history, atrocious things that have occurred.

For an individual who experiences racism though, on one end you have a dark person in colour, or a person from overseas with different ethnic appearance, and on the other a uneducated person in the way of racism, saying racist things.

When that uneducated person is delivering such words, the furthest thing from his mind is the atrocities of 20, 30, 40, 50 or 100 years ago. And I believe that the furthest thing from the receiver is the family history long ago.

What the receiver is dealing with, is from one to many many taunts over that persons lifetime, and it hurts that individual. Some darker people or from different races, see their family go through similar taunts, and it is unfair that a person, any person should have to go through that in their daily lives.

I think I am correct in what I am saying so far. If I am not, I will be keen to see where I have went wrong to this point.

Growing up, I went to 9 different primary schools. I was always the new kid up in Brisbane schools, and further north. Some of the schools I went to were not very nice places at all. I went through a fair bit of bullying.

This bullying continued, until I started playing Football, and pushing weights. Although I went to only one Secondary school, the bullying continued. I tried too hard to fit in at times, and some people took advantage of that. Throughout year 9, I started to fight the less so called tough kids, and started to win some respect. By the first day of Year ten, when I beat the suitcases out of one of the toughest kids in the school, I never had bullying from then.

I was never over weight. I was not an ugly kid, but because I went to so many schools, I was denied the ability to make long term friends. I was unsure how to deal with certain social interactions, and the kids I grew up with, took advantage of that. I felt there was no choice but to fight back, or get hurt again and again. Sometimes it was the wrong way of thinking, and I found the LINE hard to identify. When bully's danced around the line constantly.

I am a major advocate of Bullying today. I think is is disgusting behaviour, and I won't have it. I have three kids, and I spend $21,000 to put them into schools where there classmates aren't kids of the type of kid I had to deal with. The type of kid that Mum and Dad pretend to care about there kids, if they are in a good mood. They don't have much time for their kids, because they are too self centred, and life is still heavily about them. They take there frustrations out on their kids, teaching them what they quite obvious believe to be acceptable behaviour, so they can go to school, and try teach there class mates the same.

I despise bullying so bad because my experiences. My wife was bullied because of a weight issue, which she has no longer got, but growing up she did. Her sisters were bullied to the extent I consider them socially inept.

Despite my willingness to buy a good education for my kids, each one has had one experience of bullying each. It lasted about three-four months, until my wife and I said enough. We went down to the school, and told them they must get better with their policy's on bullying.

Which brings me to my next point that I have never seen a school in my time, with an adequate bullying policy. My kids school call it a care for others policy, which is a little airy fairy for my liking, but one case each, it is nothing to right home about.

One of the confusions that schools have with bullying, is where that line is. They go at the problem fairly blind, and open minded with every confidence that the accused bully is not all that bad. I have sat there in talks with the schools I grew up with, and even in the three instances, and there has been a fair amount of lying that occurs and denial of any wrong doing. Often there is warnings given, and the bullying continues, with the child giving up in their trust in the school that the bullying will be handled appropriately, and the child who is getting bullied, continues to get it.

My confusion to it all is why is racism treated harshly, and the racist not even given the opportunity to lie their way out of the accusation? How can we just be confident that the person that is accusing someone of racism to be telling the truth? Why do we not treat bullying the same, and have the same amount of success to stamp it out?

If we treated people equally, the and called it all bullying, and that became the dirty word, it would go along way to solving the issue. When you isolate the two, saying that it is not on the same level, because of things that happened 50 years ago, doesn't wash with me.

The attitude to bullying is disgraceful, and not by the bully. He is just someone that no one wants to identify to being someone that is in desperate need of an attitude adjustment. The teachers are only part to blame too. The schools have not past the stern message on that bullying is serious. I mean we do have suicide from bullying, but it is not on the level of racism. I don't understand how death as a result, does not put bullying on a higher level than it is. Just stupid interpretation by adults in our society. They are probably partly only rising to that level, because the politicians are on a low level when it comes to intellegence, but that is a whole different story.

The attitude to bullying is disgraceful by the media. I just heard The Ox and Robbo discussing the Goodes incident. Instead of me thinking, that is disgraceful, I think yeah, that is bad BUT. They said that Eddie McGuire is a role model, and high in the media. Uneducated people when it comes to racism, see Eddie have a joke about Goodes, and think, well I can do it, and that is why they needed to come down on Eddie McGuire so hard. To send a message. EXACTLY.

So why is it, that when Sam Newman and James Brayshaw and many other media personality's go on about Billy Brownless's weight, or how ugly Cameron Ling is, no one skips a beat. Do you know why? Because Billy Brownless and Cameron Ling laugh it off. If they don't care, why should we.

But the problem is, that kids and teenagers are seeing this, and going and repeating this behaviour to the overweight kid, or the ugly kid. HE minds, HE gets depressed, and HE suicides. And Sam and James are none the wiser.

What is these kids had family's that were all overweight, or all ugly, and for generations they had been coping it by society. What if these kids have history of brutal beatings in their past. Slavery and violence. Can he draw on the importance of not being bullied in the same way as the aboriginal kid, or the Italian? NO, he can't, and if he did, he is looked at like he has thin skin.

So before you get society's full backing with Racism, you need to stamp bullying out across the board. Or from a person who has had history of bullying, the full respect for the racism will not be embraced.

So hear is where I want smart cookies to tell me where I am wrong with this. This is where we need to spread this theory, and put bullying as a whole on high alert, up with racism. Because I haven't got the stats, but I hazard a guess that a lot of people who in adult hood participate in racism, is the people who have been taught through the hands of bully's, that it is all good, it is all toughening you up. Why should they get away with it, if we can't.

Discuss.

 

[Damon_3388]

Easy fix - Don't make comments that could in any way be construed as racist, and you'll never have a problem. It really is as simple as that.

 

[port_adelaide_1870]

Really? This is a footy forum... Don't be racist and grow up simple as that.

 

[Chief]

More of an SRP thread?

 

[Alesana]

Easy fix - Don't make comments that could in any way be construed as racist, and you'll never have a problem. It really is as simple as that.

So going by your logic; me being a white person calling Adam Goodes a s**t bloke makes me racist

 

[port_adelaide_1870]

So going by your logic; me being a white person calling Adam Goodes a s**t bloke makes me racist

How did you come up with that?

 

[Alesana]

How did you come up with that?

One could interpret my thoughts on him as being based on his skin colour. Yes, that's the logic.

 

[port_adelaide_1870]

One could interpret my thoughts on him as being based on his skin colour. Yes, that's the logic.

I think you also need educating.

 

[Alesana]

I think you also need educating.

Do you know what construed means?

 

[Gus Poyet]

Easy fix - Don't make comments that could in any way be construed as racist, and you'll never have a problem. It really is as simple as that.

Indeed. Unfortunately the world is full of sooks and the PC brigade are on their side to misconstrue as they please.

 

[JohnnyFontane90]

funny. I don't think anyone in right mind read the 8th harry potter book above, but everyone just saw the word racism and wants to throw their self righteous 2 cents in......

 

[Xtreme]

They will never stamp out racism entirely, there will always be a few bad eggs in the bunch.

 

[Donners]

I have three kids, and I spend $21,000 to put them into schools where there classmates aren't kids of the type of kid I had to deal with.

I went to an exclusive private school, courtesy of a scholarship. I was spat on for being from a "povo" family. I was told by a teacher that I would be more suited to a western suburbs school. There were no shortage of comments about my wealth or lack thereof, and its apparent relevance to my worth as a person.

The bullying may not have been as physical as one would find at a less-exclusive school, but it was no less vicious or ill-intentioned.

 

[DNine]

Easy fix - Don't make comments that could in any way be construed as racist, and you'll never have a problem. It really is as simple as that.

LOL, did you read a word. This doesn't even make sense to what I was Suggesting/Asking.

 

[DNine]

Seriously, I can't believe anyone feels comfortable being racist or a bully.

 

[Gus Poyet]

I got picked on at school because of my accent . Then I started going out on the town and the chicks loved it.

Sooks empower idiots is the moral of the story. What one idiot doesnt like a lot more will dig it.

 

[Damon_3388]

One could interpret my thoughts on him as being based on his skin colour. Yes, that's the logic.

No, that's a logical leap, making assumptions on your thought process and putting words into your mouth.

LOL, did you read a word. This doesn't even make sense to what I was Suggesting/Asking.

I read every word. I've been bullied too during both primary and high school, and I've never had any feature or trait at any age that was/is really "bully-worthy" as far as I can tell. The problem with racism and bullying starts with the racists and the bullies. They chose their words more wisely or their actions more carefully and respectfully, and it goes away.

What I've never understood about racism and bullying is this:

Say you're a racist or a bully, your "target" is someone who you think is "lesser" than you, right? If they're "lesser" than you, why do you even need to talk to them? They should know that they're "lesser" than you, by nature of their existence, and if they don't, then they're too stupid to worry about, right? By talking to them and putting them down, you're descending to their level, aren't you? If they're "lesser", what threat do they impose?

 

[slicedndiced]

I was bullied for a while at school.

And then I learnt to fight.

Really well.

 

[DNine]

No, that's a logical leap, making assumptions on your thought process and putting words into your mouth.



I read every word. I've been bullied too during both primary and high school, and I've never had any feature or trait at any age that was/is really "bully-worthy" as far as I can tell. The problem with racism and bullying starts with the racists and the bullies. They chose their words more wisely or their actions more carefully and respectfully, and it goes away.

What I've never understood about racism and bullying is this:

Say you're a racist or a bully, your "target" is someone who you think is "lesser" than you, right? If they're "lesser" than you, why do you even need to talk to them? They should know that they're "lesser" than you, by nature of their existence, and if they don't, then they're too stupid to worry about, right? By talking to them and putting them down, you're descending to their level, aren't you? If they're "lesser", what threat do they impose?

GREAT, You took a while to warm up, but that is the comments I wanted to hear. My whole aim is to have people who are trying to jump onto the behaviours of Racists, to do so with Bully's. Talk like this goes a small step for this to happen. The more stories the better. Eventually, the Media, who browse over all of these boards, as they have been caught out time and time again, taking slabs of talk of a few of these boards, and putting it in the media as their idea. I invite that here. I don't need to be the one that started the talk about it, so long as I hear it talked about. I want it addressed and talked about. I would like to hear a SEN or MMM talk about the differences, and the contradictions that these media type often do, by getting on their high horse about Racism, which is helpful, but then turning around and saying to Billy Brownless some fat joke, and don't skip a beat as to what message is being sent to kids when they do so.

 

[hcd199]

I think the historical discrimination in relation to racism does play a part; if, years back, there were lesser rights for a particular group, or indeed worse, then the collective ideal to move away from that will be a lot stronger. I don't think that diminishes the importance of trying to combat bullying, which - as you say - can be just as harmful on an individual level. Greater importance is attached to racism precisely because leaving it unchecked offers the suggestion of returning to discriminatory practices of times past; there isn't a comparable systematic wrong in relation to being overweight or having red hair. Of course, these historical factors don't bear relevance on most individual instances of racism/bullying/discrimination, but I think the fear of what unchecked racism would lead to is greater than any concerns about what unchecked bullying would do, simply because we have records of what unchecked racism led to on a societal level.

Bullying is, of course, a significant problem, and I agree that the programs schools are implementing are generally ineffectual when it comes to addressing those problems. There is something inherently contradictory in lambasting racism and then being discriminatory in another regard.

 

[DNine]

I think the historical discrimination in relation to racism does play a part; if, years back, there were lesser rights for a particular group, or indeed worse, then the collective ideal to move away from that will be a lot stronger. I don't think that diminishes the importance of trying to combat bullying, which - as you say - can be just as harmful on an individual level. Greater importance is attached to racism precisely because leaving it unchecked offers the suggestion of returning to discriminatory practices of times past; there isn't a comparable systematic wrong in relation to being overweight or having red hair. Of course, these historical factors don't bear relevance on most individual instances of racism/bullying/discrimination, but I think the fear of what unchecked racism would lead to is greater than any concerns about what unchecked bullying would do, simply because we have records of what unchecked racism led to on a societal level.

Bullying is, of course, a significant problem, and I agree that the programs schools are implementing are generally ineffectual when it comes to addressing those problems. There is something inherently contradictory in lambasting racism and then being discriminatory in another regard.

Great thoughts there. Well put, and I see what you are saying. Over all, the return of racism is in fact more of a concern. I suppose in reading these thoughts, I need to clarify that I am not trying to hold bullying up to be more important or equally important to racism. Although individually, it may be so. I may of suggested that in my original post, and this discussion is already guiding me. So overall, the fear of racism returning is like the fear of a tsunami, where as the bullying issue, is killer waves that happen regularly, and barely have we stop the waves hitting individuals. The tsunami of racism, is extremely important to keep away. The racism present TODAY though, is similar to the smaller waves of too regular incidence of bullying.

The schools are in line with the media, and social belief in general. There has been an acceptance through football clubs, schools, and all social settings, that it is funny for someone to have a good old joke against the fat man, the ugly man, so long as he laughs it off. When that occurs, like Billy/Sam and James, everyone laughs along. It is on thin ice though, because if Billy or Ling had a bad day, and heard something that could be considered bullying, a fat joke, a red haired joke, they could stare and shout, "I FIND THAT UNACCEPTABLE, APOLOGISE PLEASE" That person that delivered the same sentence many times before, becomes the bad guy. All people who would of started laughing, would see the offence, and they would not dare to laugh. So it is a very grey area as to what is acceptable. It needs to be refined.

But more importantly, is the media is spreading to all people, not just kids, what is acceptable banter among friends. Bully's often pretend to be temporary friends with their victim. They will have a slimy smart ass smirk on their face, and deliver the taunt in a joking way, in the same way they deliver it to a mate. In schools though, the bully victim knows the history of the relationship. When the bully victim makes exception to the taunt, often the bullied person is looked at as not having the ability to handle playful banter. It sort of makes the bully look like he is dealing with an over sensitive kid, and he gets looks and comments from firstly close friends, and other students that don't know the history. The bully comes out looking the cool customer, and the bullied kid looks like the sook. Unable to take a simple joke. But as the bully knows, it happens all the time, it happens in a sarcastic way.

When teachers involve themselves, they don't take into consideration enough, just how complicated the issue is. The bully lies, and the teacher gets confused.

Back to racism, the line has been drawn, it is clear. We know that regardless whether you thought it was a harmless joke, you are in terrible trouble, being asked to go to learn about racism, and looked down upon by society. It is pretty definite. Meanwhile, bullying lags back in the dark ages, because the line is yet to be drawn at all, if not clearly anyway.

It would strengthen the fight against Racism, if you put it with Bullying. All under the same umbrella. You better be careful what you say to anyone, because if there is offence taken, you are in the s**t. We have a way to go. Media to be all over it first, and discuss it. Doing it here helps .02%, and we need to get 100% better than we are now. It is like making the pyramids with digging the foundations with a teaspoon. Racism is half way there.

 

[hcd199]

Great thoughts there. Well put, and I see what you are saying. Over all, the return of racism is in fact more of a concern. I suppose in reading these thoughts, I need to clarify that I am not trying to hold bullying up to be more important or equally important to racism. Although individually, it may be so. I may of suggested that in my original post, and this discussion is already guiding me. So overall, the fear of racism returning is like the fear of a tsunami, where as the bullying issue, is killer waves that happen regularly, and barely have we stop the waves hitting individuals. The tsunami of racism, is extremely important to keep away. The racism present TODAY though, is similar to the smaller waves of too regular incidence of bullying.

The schools are in line with the media, and social belief in general. There has been an acceptance through football clubs, schools, and all social settings, that it is funny for someone to have a good old joke against the fat man, the ugly man, so long as he laughs it off. When that occurs, like Billy/Sam and James, everyone laughs along. It is on thin ice though, because if Billy or Ling had a bad day, and heard something that could be considered bullying, a fat joke, a red haired joke, they could stare and shout, "I FIND THAT UNACCEPTABLE, APOLOGISE PLEASE" That person that delivered the same sentence many times before, becomes the bad guy. All people who would of started laughing, would see the offence, and they would not dare to laugh. So it is a very grey area as to what is acceptable. It needs to be refined.

But more importantly, is the media is spreading to all people, not just kids, what is acceptable banter among friends. Bully's often pretend to be temporary friends with their victim. They will have a slimy smart ass smirk on their face, and deliver the taunt in a joking way, in the same way they deliver it to a mate. In schools though, the bully victim knows the history of the relationship. When the bully victim makes exception to the taunt, often the bullied person is looked at as not having the ability to handle playful banter. It sort of makes the bully look like he is dealing with an over sensitive kid, and he gets looks and comments from firstly close friends, and other students that don't know the history. The bully comes out looking the cool customer, and the bullied kid looks like the sook. Unable to take a simple joke. But as the bully knows, it happens all the time, it happens in a sarcastic way.

When teachers involve themselves, they don't take into consideration enough, just how complicated the issue is. The bully lies, and the teacher gets confused.

Back to racism, the line has been drawn, it is clear. We know that regardless whether you thought it was a harmless joke, you are in terrible trouble, being asked to go to learn about racism, and looked down upon by society. It is pretty definite. Meanwhile, bullying lags back in the dark ages, because the line is yet to be drawn at all, if not clearly anyway.

It would strengthen the fight against Racism, if you put it with Bullying. All under the same umbrella. You better be careful what you say to anyone, because if there is offence taken, you are in the s**t. We have a way to go. Media to be all over it first, and discuss it. Doing it here helps .02%, and we need to get 100% better than we are now. It is like making the pyramids with digging the foundations with a teaspoon. Racism is half way there.

Good points, especially about how schools are failing to consider the whole of the issue in instances of bullying. There is definitely a culture of seeing the bullied person as the problem for how they react to things rather than the bully for inciting that reaction. Racism, in the sense that it appears at schools, is for the most part no different; I just think we happen to treat it differently because we've seen what it looks like running rampant and unchecked in wider society. The bully at a school who taunts a kid over his race is probably not acting too differently, if at all, from the bully who taunts a kid over weight, or hair colour, or socio-economic status (see Donners' example above).

I agree that media sources play a part in shaping, consciously or unconsciously, what we see as acceptable behaviour, so changing attitudes probably requires, in part, changing the media portrayal of such matters.

 

[swingdog]

DNine, your approach has a nice simplicity about it in terms of tackling a problem and perhaps would work for some aspects of the problem. I'd have no problem with "racist bullying" being seen just as "bullying" and addressed accordingly.

There might be a transition phase which proves difficult. For example, the Essendon supporter who stood up and dobbed in his fellow supporter recently had no qualms about doing so (and good on him) because racism is viewed as unacceptable. In his mind, he could say "that bloke's a racist" and take action. If the formulation was framed as bullying, he'd be saying to himself "that bloke's a bully."

That's a tougher translation from thought into action for a number of reasons. The first is that, as you say, bullying isn't regarded with the same distaste as racist actions and words. The second is that, mentally, I think bullying carries with it culturally, a physical threat. That makes it harder to take on a bully versus a racist.

The bigger problem with your frame is that you're talking about specific one person to another situations. What about like every bloody Christmas where my brother in law makes some casually racist remark about "the blacks". The object of his scorn isn't in the room so he isn't bullying, but he's still being racist.

 

[Cooldude]

I went to an exclusive private school, courtesy of a scholarship. I was spat on for being from a "povo" family. I was told by a teacher that I would be more suited to a western suburbs school. There were no shortage of comments about my wealth or lack thereof, and its apparent relevance to my worth as a person.

The bullying may not have been as physical as one would find at a less-exclusive school, but it was no less vicious or ill-intentioned.

Funny thing is if you put a rich kid amongst some poor ones, it'd be the rich kid getting it

People just always has to find someone to subjugate to make themselves superior, bullying and abuse and racism stem from that. It's disgraceful

Humans are just dickheads in general, ah well, maybe Hitler was right

PS: Hitler is wrong

 

[little graham]

Funny thing is if you put a rich kid amongst some poor ones, it'd be the rich kid getting it

People just always has to find someone to subjugate to make themselves superior, bullying and abuse and racism stem from that. It's disgraceful

Humans are just dickheads in general, ah well, maybe Hitler was right

PS: Hitler is wrong

What about Charles Darwin? would you call "origin of the species' racist , bullying or both?