Society/Culture The distrust of education

[peetoo]

A good start would be to try to counter how extremist talkin points we from wherever seem to overwhelm those from a more sensible centre view.

Unfortunately a lot of those pushing extreme views present themselves as the sensible centre, so kids need better personal logic tools to help them

 

[Carringbush2010]

Who says they've only given them one side?

The links I've posted.

I'm expecting you'll dismiss those links.

 

[owen87]

Everyone is influenced one way or the other and anywhere in between, point is the workplace / school classroom is not the place to air your grievances about any said political / societal topic.

I'd have zero problem with Teachers educating their students about the war in Gaza IF it is done so from an unbiased stance, let the kids make up their own minds.

What I've linked is Teachers bringing biased views to the classroom, as a result of being ideologically motivated. Not the place for it.

Then the teachers if they wish can go and protest to their hearts content outside of the school classroom.

Perhaps the students have been presented the unbiased information and decided what's happening to Palestinian kids - you know, the same age as these school kids - is not OK and they wish to protest about it.

Seems to me it's actually been quite successful in getting the issue talked about.

 

[Carringbush2010]

Of all the things students spend their time doing, I'm personally pretty OK with them exercising their democratic right to protest within school hours.

Is your boss ok with you protesting at work, instead of doing your job?

 

[owen87]

The links I've posted.

I'm expecting you'll dismiss those links.

I've read both, point me to the part where it shows any of this pro-Palestinian activism?

Seems to me like (some) pro-Israel organisations have their knickers in a knot that people aren't unequivocally supporting their slaughter of civilians in Gaza and are trying to use made up things like 'wah anti-semiitism!' to shut down criticism.

 

[owen87]

Is your boss ok with you protesting at work, instead of doing your job?

You mean the work where I'm paid to be in attendance and produce an outcome versus a school where I would pay to attend and learn things?

Not quite the argument you'd hoped it would be there.

 

[peetoo]

About what, the war or the teachers bringing their biased views to the classroom?

As for either I don't know.

Sorry if I was obtuse.

School chaplains would neatly fit under pushing ideological viewpoints as described, but certain sections seem to think they are essential (scomos religious discrimination faile legislation)

Happy to concur with you if you also support religious ideaology not being presented in schools


This is distinct from discussin the cultural influences of religion good and bad as matter of fact subjects, which seems appropriate

 

[peetoo]

I've read both, point me to the part where it shows any of this pro-Palestinian activism?

Seems to me like (some) pro-Israel organisations have their knickers in a knot that people aren't unequivocally supporting their slaughter of civilians in Gaza and are trying to use made up things like 'wah anti-semiitism!' to shut down criticism.

I’m reminded of a certain Joe Gutnick who was a huge supporter of Australian multiculturalism, but is quoted as saying it was inappropriate in israel

 

[Carringbush2010]

Perhaps the students have been presented the unbiased information and decided what's happening to Palestinian kids - you know, the same age as these school kids - is not OK and they wish to protest about it.

Seems to me it's actually been quite successful in getting the issue talked about.

Then if they've been presented unbiased information then there is no need for teachers encouraging students to protest from a one sided viewpoint.

You seem to be in favour of Teachers using class time to encourage protesting from a biased viewpoint, instead of using the school classroom for its intended purposes.

If that is your position, I'll stop conversing with you.

 

[owen87]

Then if they've been presented unbiased information then there is no need for teachers encouraging students to protest from a one sided viewpoint.

You seem to be in favour of Teachers using class time to encourage protesting from a biased viewpoint, instead of using the school classroom for its intended purposes.

If that is your position, I'll stop conversing with you.

Why can't the students have decided that was is going on is Gaza is wrong and they wish to exercise their democratic right to protest in support of the Palestinian children being slaughtered?

Sounds a lot like you simply don't like that they're protesting against the actions of Israel? If they'd gone and protested against Hamas would you have been fine with it?

 

[Carringbush2010]

Happy to concur with you if you also support religious ideaology not being presented in schools

Seems we concur.

 

[Millky95]

Of all the things students spend their time doing, I'm personally pretty OK with them exercising their democratic right to protest within school hours.

Protests always happen when are where they will be noticed for maximum impact and notice. If a school did a protest on a Saturday, outside the school when there is no sport/events on outside of those in the street, who would notice? They protest down the main road in Melbourne, during school time, and they get noticed.

Every protest does this

 

[Chief]

But they shouldn't be using the classroom as platform to air them, just like I shouldn't the workplace as a platform to air my political / societal world views.

Do you think this is unreasonable?

Depends. Are they airing gross crap or are they encouraging their children to think and be good people?

So, which teachers have been airing their views and luring their kids into thinking bombing innocent kids is a bad thing?

 

[Carringbush2010]

Sounds a lot like you simply don't like that they're protesting against the actions of Israel?

I don't really have a position one way or the other about the War, coz it's a hopeless situation, provoked by a narcissistic Israeli sentiment veiling itself as 'liberal democratic' in bad faith and a terror organization that is hell bent on destroying the former. Which results in innocent people being unwarranted victims.

You've taken the discussion about Teachers and what they should and shouldn't be doing in the class room into the war in Gaza.

So obviously you're ideologically motivated about the war subject instead and are in favour of Teachers using the classroom platform for purposes that are not intended for the classroom.

I find this position as illogical and emotionally driven, and therefore will cease discussion with you.

 

[Gough]

Of all the things students spend their time doing, I'm personally pretty OK with them exercising their democratic right to protest within school hours.

The whole point of passive resistance is to be disruptive, school students going on strike on the weekend misses the point of the whole thing.

 

[The Punter]

The whole point of passive resistance is to be disruptive, school students going on strike on the weekend misses the point of the whole thing.

Isn't the point to disrupt others? I would argue the person being disrupted most by a student missing class would be the student themselves.

 

[Carringbush2010]

Depends. Are they airing gross crap or are they encouraging their children to think and be good people?

So, which teachers have been airing their views and luring their kids into thinking bombing innocent kids is a bad thing?

Clearly the link I posted has a teacher who has a one sided view of the war and is obviously intent on encouraging students at her school to adopt her emotionally driven biased viewpoint.

1/ Not the place to platform your emotionally driven views, not the intended purpose of the school classroom.

2/ It comes from a biased stance, pro one side and not the other. This is unbalanced and encourages students to be emotionally motivated instead viewing the nuances from both sides of the topic.

Do you find the classroom used as something it is not intended for reasonable?

 

[Chief]

Isn't the point to disrupt others? I would argue the person being disrupted most by a student missing class would be the student themselves.

At this time of year there's nothing much going on in any case. Exams are done.

 

[owen87]

I don't really have a position one way or the other about the War, coz it's a hopeless situation, provoked by a narcissistic Israeli sentiment veiling itself as 'liberal democratic' in bad faith and a terror organization that is hell bent on destroying the former. Which results in innocent people being unwarranted victims.

You've taken the discussion about Teachers and what they should and shouldn't be doing in the class room into the war in Gaza.

So obviously you're ideologically motivated about the war subject instead and are in favour of Teachers using the classroom platform for purposes that are not intended for the classroom.

I find this position as illogical and emotionally driven, and therefore will cease discussion with you.

The classrom should teach kids about many things; maths, geography, english, civil rights, history, contemporary events.

We're literally discussing the topic about the protests on Palestine, you posted articles about it, you can't then backtrack and pretend like I've brought it up.

The Israel-Gaza conflict is a major event occurring right before their eyes. Why shouldn't they be able to ask questions or learn more, why shouldn't they be able to exercise their democratic right to protest if they feel suitably passionate about a topic?

Plenty of posters here remember teachers wheeling in TV's to class to watch 9/11 unfolding. It was a major global event occurring in that very moment.

The bolded is just... bizarre. You've brought it up, you've received answers you don't like, you've decided that it therefore must be illogical and emotionally driven because you don't like it.

 

[Gralin]

Why can't they protest on a Saturday? Why must it be during school time?

I feel you do not understand one of the basic rules of protesting when you ask this question.

It's like asking why protesters block busy streets during peak hour.

If you're not disrupting anything with your protest, what are you actually doing?

There's a reason all these anti protest laws focus on taking away the ability to protest when and where you want to and its because it reduces the impact of protest, as well as the ability to protest

Same as strike actions

needing courts permission to strike for your rights as a worker is bullshit, look in WA where the nurses were refused the right to strike, and when they did it anyway their union got hit with massive fines

that's anti worker behaviour from the courts in support of government oppression of workers rights and wages

 

[The Punter]

I feel you do not understand one of the basic rules of protesting when you ask this question.

It's like asking why protesters block busy streets during peak hour.

If you're not disrupting anything with your protest, what are you actually doing?

There's a reason all these anti protest laws focus on taking away the ability to protest when and where you want to and its because it reduces the impact of protest, as well as the ability to protest

Same as strike actions

needing courts permission to strike for your rights as a worker is bullshit, look in WA where the nurses were refused the right to strike, and when they did it anyway their union got hit with massive fines

that's anti worker behaviour from the courts in support of government oppression of workers rights and wages

As I said earlier, with specific regard to school students, the students themselves suffer the most disruption by protesting during class time. I fully understand the objective of protests to cause discomfort to those either unaware of the reason for the protest or those who need to feel discomfort. I just think as far as school students go, it's self-defeating to a point.

 

[Gralin]

As I said earlier, with specific regard to school students, the students themselves suffer the most disruption by protesting during class time. I fully understand the objective of protests to cause discomfort to those either unaware of the reason for the protest or those who need to feel discomfort. I just think as far as school students go, it's self-defeating to a point.

Its literally the only time anyone will pay attention to them

If they did it on a Saturday nobody would care because it wasn't during school hours

Like I said, they understand what they're doing but I'm not sure you do

Or you do and you don't like it because you don't agree with their protesting



Kids miss school all the time because they're sick or on a family holiday and nobody bats an eye about it impacting their learning

s**t the only reason half the people complained about it during covid was because it fit their anti lockdown narrative

and yeah learning was impacted but health was protected which again shows how ****ed up peoples priorities are with kids

its all about getting them into a productive role within the economy, nothing else

 

[The Punter]

Its literally the only time anyone will pay attention to them

If they did it on a Saturday nobody would care because it wasn't during school hours

Like I said, they understand what they're doing but I'm not sure you do

Or you do and you don't like it because you don't agree with their protesting



Kids miss school all the time because they're sick or on a family holiday and nobody bats an eye about it impacting their learning

s**t the only reason half the people complained about it during covid was because it fit their anti lockdown narrative

and yeah learning was impacted but health was protected which again shows how ****ed up peoples priorities are with kids

its all about getting them into a productive role within the economy, nothing else

Perhaps people can understand something and not come to the same conclusion as you. You are easily the least pluralistic person I've come across in these parts, and that's saying something.

As you were mod

 

[owen87]

As I said earlier, with specific regard to school students, the students themselves suffer the most disruption by protesting during class time. I fully understand the objective of protests to cause discomfort to those either unaware of the reason for the protest or those who need to feel discomfort. I just think as far as school students go, it's self-defeating to a point.

I reckon they'd have learnt more from going and protesting than whatever classes they missed.

 

[Gralin]

Perhaps people can understand something and not come to the same conclusion as you. You are easily the least pluralistic person I've come across in these parts, and that's saying something.

As you were mod

great non response mate

you're argument was that missing school to protest is self defeating

but that's assuming the primary reason they are protesting is for their education which clearly its not

its to draw attention to the issue they are protesting for, and as has been said the best way to draw attention is by doing something that isn't convenient

you're not stupid so I gotta think you're either not for protest or not for this protest, maybe both

but on the other hand we've had decades of bullshit lies about peaceful protest drilled into the public while our right to protest gets eroded so maybe you've just been sucked in by that