Brisbane needs help

[Lion for Life]

You didn't have problems retaining them when you were going well. Sydney's not having problems retaining them while they are going well.

When clubs are going well, run well, players want to stay. You do the maths.

Well, that is the objective mate, what we are asking for is the AFL to give us a chop out off field, us members attempted to fix it but were shut down by Andy D.

That being said, no, the pies do not face the challenges my club does in retention, by very nature of Collingwood being the largest club in the land with all the best advantages the AFL can offer you have more players racing to join you than leave

 

[Beasley]

Why should Brisbane get help again. The AFL helped them previously and they won three premierships.
It's about time the Doggies got some similar help because our supporters haven't even seen their team play in a GF since 1961!

 

[BEEG]

Equalization can't have clubs putting their hands out anymore enough is enough

 

[mehow2g]

AFL probably dont care with GCS dominating QLD headlines for years to come.

 

[FuManchu]

Brisbane supporters can't see beyond allowances to keep them at the top, or get them there.

It ain't about the money.

2 recent examples of it not being about the money.

1. Geelong had or even still has a policy of not overpaying. They kept their list together in spite of players at other clubs getting way more than their max salary they paid. Ablett left because he got an offer he cldnt refuse, somewhere in the vicinity of 3 times their max salary. They were a successful club and still are in spite of money.

2. Brisbane players in the middle of their 3 flags volunteered to take pay cuts to keep that list together, to see what history they could make. Yes they had a retention allowance but they proved that money wasn't as important than success.

3. Brisbane again. No retention allowance, built themselves back up and into finals and won a final. No retention allowance, just a club heading in the right direction.


And then mad Vossy made some monumental and far reaching recruiting blunders.


There is your reason why your club is in the muck. You proved you could advance without assistance. But you also proved what depths a poorly run club can plummet to.

Fix your club, stop looking for on field welfare. In this current club environment, you would only waste the largesse afforded you yet again. Fix your club from the inside.

 

[luthor]

Why should Brisbane get help again. The AFL helped them previously and they won three premierships.
It's about time the Doggies got some similar help because our supporters haven't even seen their team play in a GF since 1961!

Another silly attempt to hijack the debate with "Premierships Won" since *insert random year* as the sole determinant of whether a club needs "help" in 2014.

If that's the only criterion to be applied, the "power" clubs should be hobbled for the next 100 years.

 

[master bate]

Equalization can't have clubs putting their hands out anymore enough is enough

So how much exactly have Brisbane received in equalisation money so far?

Brisbane have shocking facilities and a pile of debt.

No way should they be bailed out straight up and then able to go on without a financial care in the world. But considering GWS and Gold Coast have cost the AFL millions and millions so it makes sense for Brisbane to be bailed out so they can get their heads above water.

The AFL is one big controlling business with 18 subsidiaries. Each one should manage themselves but when one gets in to trouble and is important to the ongoing future of the company it makes sense for the greater good for the AFL to step in and help them out. As long as that help is off field help and not direct on field advantage.

 

[Beasley]

Another silly attempt to hijack the debate with "Premierships Won" since *insert random year* as the sole determinant of whether a club needs "help" in 2014.

If that's the only criterion to be applied, the "power" clubs should be hobbled for the next 100 years.

I didn't compare Brisbane's premiership success to a "power" club. I was referring to the Bulldogs who haven't tasted success since 1954. If there is ever a club whose supporters deserve assistance to see premiership success, it is the doggies.

Brisbane supporters have enjoyed the ultimate on three occasions and they have only been in the AFL for a relatively short period. You don't know how lucky you have been.

 

[luthor]

I didn't compare Brisbane's premiership success to a "power" club. I was referring to the Bulldogs who haven't tasted success since 1954. If there is ever a club whose supporters deserve assistance to see premiership success, it is the doggies.

Brisbane supporters have enjoyed the ultimate on three occasions and they have only been in the AFL for a relatively short period. You don't know how lucky you have been.

Oh but I do.

The point I'm making is that winning x premierships in the last y years is not a valid gauge of the overall health of your Football Club today. At least, not in the Queensland sporting market, anyway.

FWIW, I would love to see success starved clubs(in terms of flags) like the Dogs, Saints, Melbourne and even (dare I say it) Richmond break the drought for their supporters. As a follower of the Bad News Bears from day one, I fully understand and empathize with the feeling of frustration and despair in seeing your Footy club wallow and flounder for years on end with no apparent light at the end of the tunnel.

I'm not some Johnny-come-lately bandwagonning supporter who jumped on board in the early 2000's who thinks that success and Flags are my right and wants the AFL to do something to give me another hit, or I'm going to sulk.

I just think it's important to recognize what we are talking about here with regards to the Brisbane Lions and their current plight.

A fair reading of the posts from our supporters( including contributors from other clubs) in this thread should make it clear that what is of concern is our very viability in the cut-throat non-Afl local market in which are operating.

And that concern is in spite of our past successes over a decade ago.

 

[Lion for Life]

Brisbane supporters can't see beyond allowances to keep them at the top, or get them there.

It ain't about the money.

2 recent examples of it not being about the money.

1. Geelong had or even still has a policy of not overpaying. They kept their list together in spite of players at other clubs getting way more than their max salary they paid. Ablett left because he got an offer he cldnt refuse, somewhere in the vicinity of 3 times their max salary. They were a successful club and still are in spite of money.

2. Brisbane players in the middle of their 3 flags volunteered to take pay cuts to keep that list together, to see what history they could make. Yes they had a retention allowance but they proved that money wasn't as important than success.

3. Brisbane again. No retention allowance, built themselves back up and into finals and won a final. No retention allowance, just a club heading in the right direction.


And then mad Vossy made some monumental and far reaching recruiting blunders.


There is your reason why your club is in the muck. You proved you could advance without assistance. But you also proved what depths a poorly run club can plummet to.

Fix your club, stop looking for on field welfare. In this current club environment, you would only waste the largesse afforded you yet again. Fix your club from the inside.

I made special point of the assistance we require being of an off field nature yet you have chosen to ignore that. As for the rest of your post it's not even worth debating, you are wrong and thats all you need to know

 

[Football Pope]

Brisbane supporters can't see beyond allowances to keep them at the top, or get them there.

It ain't about the money.

2 recent examples of it not being about the money.

1. Geelong had or even still has a policy of not overpaying. They kept their list together in spite of players at other clubs getting way more than their max salary they paid. Ablett left because he got an offer he cldnt refuse, somewhere in the vicinity of 3 times their max salary. They were a successful club and still are in spite of money.

2. Brisbane players in the middle of their 3 flags volunteered to take pay cuts to keep that list together, to see what history they could make. Yes they had a retention allowance but they proved that money wasn't as important than success.

3. Brisbane again. No retention allowance, built themselves back up and into finals and won a final. No retention allowance, just a club heading in the right direction.


And then mad Vossy made some monumental and far reaching recruiting blunders.


There is your reason why your club is in the muck. You proved you could advance without assistance. But you also proved what depths a poorly run club can plummet to.

Fix your club, stop looking for on field welfare. In this current club environment, you would only waste the largesse afforded you yet again. Fix your club from the inside.

Typical Victorian centric attitude...no idea how things work in football frontiers up north.. They think and speak as if they do, your post is telling that you have no idea..To them, expansion clubs should only be there as a feeder for the big Victorian clubs.. Truth is, Brisbane would still have their retention if they hadn't beaten Collingwood in 2 Grand finals and gave up their players..Eddie had a sook....and for some weird reason he sees the academy programs as a threat...

Brisbane has been in the competition for over 25 years it's only in the last 12 months that the AFL have identified that the 2nd tier competition is way off the standard of even Victorian amateur leagues..That's astounding, a league hellbent on expansion hasn't put in to ensure its product is working nationally. ..there is never going to be a even competition when sides outside of Victoria travel interstate every 2nd week...and some Victorian clubs only travel 5 times..the draw is favoured to suit the AFL pockets..

 

[Football Pope]

If Brown had retired 2 years ago .Brisbane could have drafted some young up and comers but he still wanted his big pay day and thought stuff all the rest.

He was on the Veterans list..

 

[Football Pope]

Equalization can't have clubs putting their hands out anymore enough is enough

Yeah and enough of Victorian clubs avoiding Travelling interstate more than 5 times one year 3 another...

 

[FuManchu]

I made special point of the assistance we require being of an off field nature yet you have chosen to ignore that. As for the rest of your post it's not even worth debating, you are wrong and thats all you need to know

I'm very right. You're club was heading in the right direction without assistance and then poor recruiting stuffed your list. That's why your club is in it's current malaise. Voss gambled, Brisbane lost

 

[Football Pope]

I'm very right. You're club was heading in the right direction without assistance and then poor recruiting stuffed your list. That's why your club is in it's current malaise. Voss gambled, Brisbane lost

Out of sorts because it is 3rd young list in the comp...turn it up!

 

[Lion for Life]

I'm very right. You're club was heading in the right direction without assistance and then poor recruiting stuffed your list. That's why your club is in it's current malaise. Voss gambled, Brisbane lost

Look, regardless of what you might think is the sole reason of our current situation, there's a lot more to it you than you understand, is irrelevant, what is relevant is that we are in a dire situation and require some form of assistance to set us straight

 

[luthor]

So how much exactly have Brisbane received in equalisation money so far?

Brisbane have shocking facilities and a pile of debt.

No way should they be bailed out straight up and then able to go on without a financial care in the world. But considering GWS and Gold Coast have cost the AFL millions and millions so it makes sense for Brisbane to be bailed out so they can get their heads above water.

The AFL is one big controlling business with 18 subsidiaries. Each one should manage themselves but when one gets in to trouble and is important to the ongoing future of the company it makes sense for the greater good for the AFL to step in and help them out. As long as that help is off field help and not direct on field advantage.

Silly user name.

Good post

 

[Football Pope]

Possibly GWS's best recruiting was in getting the Lamberts off Brisbane.

They leave for GWS, and Brisbane's retention goes to crap, and we hardly lose a player to homesickness.

The AFL needs to find people like them, and tell Brisbane they are hiring them.

Said at the time that losing the Lamberts is a huge loss to Brisbane..

 

[harmesy 37]

Look, regardless of what you might think is the sole reason of our current situation, there's a lot more to it you than you understand, is irrelevant, what is relevant is that we are in a dire situation and require some form of assistance to set us straight

Well whatever happens Carlton is happy to foot the bill for Brisbane and North and Melbourne and Bulldogs etc through the equalisation measures.

Haven't you been told - Carlton is a "power" club because we once generated big crowds...just so happens that Carlton cannot win a game against GWS, Melbourne, Richmond, Hawthorn, Brisbane, Geelong, Collingwood etc etc...but don't be fooled...Carlton is a "power" club. We'll pay the bill for Brisbane as Carlton is "rich".

 

[master bate]

Out of sorts because it is 3rd young list in the comp...turn it up!

The Voss recruiting decisions did hamper your salary cap which forced guys like Richitelli, Brennan and Henderson to leave which in turn made you a younger set back list and possibly (it's a tentative stretch) made leaving Brisbane a trendy thing to do.

If Voss had done an apprenticeship and then had an experience head of footy (not named Gubby Allen) in charge of recruiting this could've been much different. You would've had more success on field and be in a better off field circumstance.

But it's not Voss' problem it's the problems of those who ran the club. You could even say Leigh Matthews should've orchestrated a proper exit plan as well, that might've helped.

 

[Tedeski]

Wellingham

He was unwanted anyway!

My point is that Brisbane have lost 7 players, that have had two years plus of development put into them, to the go home factor.
Not something any Victorian, WA or SA club will ever see because 80% plus of their lists consist of players from their own states.

The QLD & NSW clubs are luck to have 10% of their players from that state.

 

[master bate]

Well whatever happens Carlton is happy to foot the bill for Brisbane and North and Melbourne and Bulldogs etc through the equalisation measures.

Haven't you been told - Carlton is a "power" club because we once generated big crowds...just so happens that Carlton cannot win a game against GWS, Melbourne, Richmond, Hawthorn, Brisbane, Geelong, Collingwood etc etc...but don't be fooled...Carlton is a "power" club. We'll pay the bill for Brisbane as Carlton is "rich".

Once you give up all your Friday night and Saturday night free to air fixtures, 2 games against Collingwood per year and opening game of the year then no one will mention power or rich in teh same form of Carlton and that will be great.

 

[luthor]

Well whatever happens Carlton is happy to foot the bill for Brisbane and North and Melbourne and Bulldogs etc through the equalisation measures.

Haven't you been told - Carlton is a "power" club because we once generated big crowds...just so happens that Carlton cannot win a game against GWS, Melbourne, Richmond, Hawthorn, Brisbane, Geelong, Collingwood etc etc...but don't be fooled...Carlton is a "power" club. We'll pay the bill for Brisbane as Carlton is "rich".

I didn't realize that Carlton was propping up the "poor" Clubs all by itself.

Just goes to show they have more $$$ than "sense".

But everyone knew that anyway

 

[FuManchu]

Look, regardless of what you might think is the sole reason of our current situation, there's a lot more to it you than you understand, is irrelevant, what is relevant is that we are in a dire situation and require some form of assistance to set us straight

Voss' crimes were but one aspect of your current malaise . Getting some joker in as CEO, who didn't understand AFL, didn't understand the city was another. A fractured board that heavily politicked was another.

And you're based in a city that doesn't care for the club nor the game. I lived there for 5 yrs. I had a bit to do with Gubby. Ask him what he thinks the issues are with Brisbane. He won't be as polite as I'm being.

 

[MacMum]

Voss' crimes were but one aspect of your current malaise . Getting some joker in as CEO, who didn't understand AFL, didn't understand the city was another. A fractured board that heavily politicked was another.

And you're based in a city that doesn't care for the club nor the game. I lived there for 5 yrs. I had a bit to do with Gubby. Ask him what he thinks the issues are with Brisbane. He won't be as polite as I'm being.

..and the feelings mutual. Keep your vindictive Voss bashing to yourself, while I'm at it.

..god, get over the GF losses...it will make you a miserable person for the rest of your life.

Let it go man.