Live Event 2014 NAB AFL Draft Discussion - Coming to a Board Near You...

[timtamWB]

Some posters on this board did, which to me absolutely justifies posters here having an opinion on list management.

I could throw it round the other way and say how a lot of people rated Plowman as still a top 10 draft pick, and he hasn't exactly set the world on fire.

Anyway, the main point that I'm arguing isn't the fact of whether we do or don't need more talls: It's the fact that us, and many other clubs, obviously didn't rate the talls available to us, and I wouldn't want to draft tall just for the sake of it.

 

[Mofra]

I could throw it round the other way and say how a lot of people rated Plowman as still a top 10 draft pick, and he hasn't exactly set the world on fire.

Anyway, the main point that I'm arguing isn't the fact of whether we do or don't need more talls: It's the fact that us, and many other clubs, obviously didn't rate the talls available to us, and I wouldn't want to draft tall just for the sake of it.

In a way that supports the argument for having a small excess of 'type' - we're thin for KPDs and replaced Williams & Austin with skinny kids who may or may not make it.

The rookie draft will be interesting to watch - I wouldn't be surprised to see us go for a mature utility (Goodes is still training with us!) although in one area we struggled with last year (rebounding HBFers) I think we're in for a pleasant surprise between Biggs & Darley.

 

[timtamWB]

In a way that supports the argument for having a small excess of 'type' - we're thin for KPDs and replaced Williams & Austin with skinny kids who may or may not make it.

The rookie draft will be interesting to watch - I wouldn't be surprised to see us go for a mature utility (Goodes is still training with us!) although in one area we struggled with last year (rebounding HBFers) I think we're in for a pleasant surprise between Biggs & Darley.

Again, I would rather someone like Bailey Dale rather than Austin. One is a footballer and can contribute to the team positively, and the other is Mark Austin.

I think this board might implode if we don't get any talls and we re rookie Goodes or Greenwood

 

[Mofra]

I think this board might implode if we don't get any talls and we re rookie Goodes or Greenwood

Pearce is a strong chance of rookie as well!

 

[timtamWB]

Pearce is a strong chance of rookie as well!

Pearce is alright, he's shown a bit and was injured this year. Plus he doesn't have the strong agenda that this board has against Greenwood/Goodes.

 

[TheHoneyBadger]

I like Pearce. I maintain that he'd have played his fair share of AFL footy in 2014 had he not been smashed from pillar to post by injury. He deserves another go.

Goodes would only be under consideration because he's a big-bodied, mature aged player, and we weren't counting on Griffen departing.

 

[fronkalicious]

ok then - you must have rated austin as a key defender then also ?
You must rate Jarrad Grant as a key position forward under the same logic.
Just cause he is named CHF doesnt make him a CHF or a key position forwrd

While hambling height may suggest he is, while he may play in those spots on the ground - his body shape, size and weight dont

Named as a key defender, plays as a key defender, but not a key defender………..alrighty then.

 

[BRWB]

Named as a key defender, plays as a key defender, but not a key defender………..alrighty then.

Would it make it easier if the wording was changed to 'AFL standard' KPD or KPF??

How do all of our VFL guns look then....(Redpath, Talia, Hamling, Fletcher Roberts) take your pick....

 

[fronkalicious]

Would it make it easier if the wording was changed to 'AFL standard' KPD or KPF??

How do all of our VFL guns look then....(Redpath, Talia, Hamling, Fletcher Roberts) take your pick....

No one ever said he was an 'AFL standard' key defender. Is that what you were hoping Dalrymple would select in the 40s???

 

[BRWB]

No one ever said he was an 'AFL standard' key defender. Is that what you were hoping Dalrymple would select in the 40s???

For a usually fairly positive poster, you seem to have a pretty glum outlook about the prospects for KPPs being selected after the first round. You do realise its possible to pick a decent one later don't you (McGovern, etc)? And you do realise its impossible to pick an AFL standard KPP if you don't actually draft them...at all....in the last three drafts???

 

[Zgope1]

I reckon a better way of doing things is saying "it's a pity our recruiters didn't sufficiently rate the key backs later in the draft" as opposed to "they should've selected key backs later in the draft"

 

[BEaston]

Yebi, 1 other club rated him, aside from Dal, it seems 16 other recruitment and list managers didn't.

haha whut..?? You could say the same for EVERY SINGLE player taken after each club had taken their first pick.

Weird logic there.

 

[the conch]

Yebi, 1 other club rated him, aside from Dal, it seems 16 other recruitment and list managers didn't.

Then could it also be a possibility that the one that did take him, used the "well we need one, so let's take whoever is available" attitude that is getting espoused so widely on here ?

Look, I would as I have said previously, like an extra KPF and KPD on our list, but gee if you don't like what is on offer, why would you put time and money into them, when you could have a player you DO rate ?

Anyway, Dal is far from the first Bulldog recruiter to come up short [ if you'll excuse the pun], on drafting quality talls, while Essendon has never seemed to have that affliction. Look back at our history on key defenders and forwards over time. How often have we been as a team, 'short' forward and back. Think of how often we have had to 'make do' with 'undersize' players in key posts historically, going back decades before Dal was out of 'short' pants [ sorry punning again].
There was the era when we had Croft [ a wingman] and Kritter as our 2 key defenders. Think how Moz has had to fight out of his division his entire career. Jono and various others, some even shorter than him playing at FF. We can't blame Dal for any of these situations.
It has never been ideal. It's not ideal now. But for whatever reason, as a problem for us, it significantly predates Dal in terms of being a Bulldogs affliction.

Seriously? .. was Croft originally a wingman? He was a great solid team man. Took on great players every week. One of my favourite bulldog backline players.

 

[BEaston]

No one ever said he was an 'AFL standard' key defender. Is that what you were hoping Dalrymple would select in the 40s???

Yes. Which would have just as much chance of occuring as an AFL standard small. (and any player for that matter)

 

[Mutt]

ok then - you must have rated austin as a key defender then also ?
You must rate Jarrad Grant as a key position forward under the same logic.
Just cause he is named CHF doesnt make him a CHF or a key position forwrd

While hambling height may suggest he is, while he may play in those spots on the ground - his body shape, size and weight dont

How many games have you watched Hamling play? The Geelong supporters on BF certainly consider him a key defender based on their posts on this and their own board.

Austin is a key defender and Grant was supposed to be a key forward but has failed to develop and now is an inconsistent third tall who probably isn't best 22.

 

[Yojimbo]

I didn't mind Mark Austin i thought he genuinely tried to fit into an
over defensive mind set. All your defenders can't lock down some
have to get the ball or at least make a play at it. I hope our new
coach sees defense as a launching pad for attack like it used to
be. An overly defensive mind set coupled with a midfield that
does not transition is a recipe for big scores against.

 

[Glenn Barclay]

I did not expect any KPP that we could have drafted to make a difference next year. as they all say it takes time for a KPP to develop as they need to grow into there bodies and such. But its pretty hard to develop a KPP player if you don't draft any

 

[fronkalicious]

Yes. Which would have just as much chance of occuring as an AFL standard small. (and any player for that matter)

Not if dalrymple thinks said key position player is s**t. You don't just force your full time head of recruiting to draft a player they think is shite cos you think we need a player like that. It's dalrymples job to draft the players he thinks are the best chance to make it. It's j macs job to even the list via trade and free agency, which he's done with boyd and hamling. It ain't that hard people

 

[paulveed]

Seriously? .. was Croft originally a wingman? He was a great solid team man. Took on great players every week. One of my favourite bulldog backline players.

Yep,came from country footy as a wing.

 

[BEaston]

Not if dalrymple thinks said key position player is s**t. You don't just force your full time head of recruiting to draft a player they think is shite cos you think we need a player like that. It's dalrymples job to draft the players he thinks are the best chance to make it. It's j macs job to even the list via trade and free agency, which he's done with boyd and hamling. It ain't that hard people

Yes, so then the criticism comes down to his rating of talls. Why was his rating so far off the mark of the other clubs? Or maybe he simply goes best available at every single pick, which I hope I don't have to explain why is stupid.

A pattern is set with Dal, he doesn't like drafting talls. That is obvious. Probably not the most efficient way to build a list. JMac is going to have a lot of tail chasing to do.


Also, assuming all these kids "make it" (which they obviously will otherwise why would Dal pick them eh?), there's not enough positions on the ground for them to play in. SO we train them up for them to want out where we lose at the trade table? Hmmm sounds like a good strategy.

 

[womble54]

If our strategy was draft under 193 and trade over 193 it actually makes a lot of sense to me and I'd crawl onboard that bus. Like rucks, all talls generally take longer so you'd get a better sense of whether they are any good. Have to pay more but you would definately get quality more often.

Sadly I just don't think it is actually as simple or as planned out as that.

 

[scooter600x]

If our strategy was draft under 193 and trade over 193 it actually makes a lot of sense to me and I'd crawl onboard that bus. Like rucks, all talls generally take longer so you'd get a better sense of whether they are any good. Have to pay more but you would definately get quality more often.

Sadly I just don't think it is actually as simple or as planned out as that.

No problems, all you need to to trade in a KP is to pony up your captain and pick 6 and then pay him a million a year until he retires. Can you see why this might not be sustainable long term?

 

[womble54]

No problems, all you need to to trade in a KP is to pony up your captain and pick 6 and then pay him a million a year until he retires. Can you see why this might not be sustainable long term?

I'm not arguing against this Scooter! Terrible strategy. I'm just saying if it is what we are doing then I'm pleased we at least HAVE a clear strategy. At the moment I have no idea what our draft plan is. You can't fit 15 small forwards into an overall game plan no matter how good they may be.

 

[JJHunter]

How many games have you watched Hamling play? The Geelong supporters on BF certainly consider him a key defender based on their posts on this and their own board.

Austin is a key defender and Grant was supposed to be a key forward but has failed to develop and now is an inconsistent third tall who probably isn't best 22.

If it is a genuine question I have probably seen him play 5 games.
That being said I also have a very close friend on the staff down at Geelong who has worked closely with the playing group.
So I am largely lead by what he has given me on feedback on the kid. After 3 years in the system they were really no closer to determing whether he would make it or not. It has to be clear to people that they delisted him. so how people are putting so much faith in him as filling the KPD that we need is beyond me.

Keitel is 194cm and 86kg - He hasnt had three years in the system
Marshall is 197 and 87kg - He hasnt had three years in the system
Hartley is 197cm and 102kg - and has played against men

Yet after 3 years of playing against men and in an elite system like Geelong Hamling is 194cm and 82kg.
It takes a very rare talent to be able to be a key position defender who can take the number 1 fwd from the opposition at that weight.

Compare him to Roberts (196 & 88) and Talia (195 and 90) and he makes them look big.

Ive said it about Jarrod Grant.
The fact he is tall doesnt mean he is a key position forward.
I think and have been toldd by a number of people that Hambling is no different - only a defender.

So I put him in the class of a Zaine Cordy (190cm and 80kg).
In three years Id expect zaine to weigh more than hambling does right now and we aint going to consider him in a key post at AFL level.

 

[fronkalicious]

Yes, so then the criticism comes down to his rating of talls. Why was his rating so far off the mark of the other clubs? Or maybe he simply goes best available at every single pick, which I hope I don't have to explain why is stupid.

A pattern is set with Dal, he doesn't like drafting talls. That is obvious. Probably not the most efficient way to build a list. JMac is going to have a lot of tail chasing to do.


Also, assuming all these kids "make it" (which they obviously will otherwise why would Dal pick them eh?), there's not enough positions on the ground for them to play in. SO we train them up for them to want out where we lose at the trade table? Hmmm sounds like a good strategy.

Geelong, hawthorn (twice), Collingwood, west coast and Richmond all passed on Mcdonald AFTER our last pick. Every team bar port passed on him at least twice in the draft as a whole, some teams passing on him 3 or 4 times. But he's the messiah?? Really? Teams like hawthorn and geelong seem to know what they're doing. But dals rating of him is "so far off the mark of other clubs"??

Ummmmmm, and who said all these 5 kids will definitely make it?? Of course they all won't. Dalrymple wouldn't even privately think so.

Common sense seems to have knocked off early for the year around here.