Live Event 2014 NAB AFL Draft Discussion - Coming to a Board Near You...

[JJHunter]

Geelong, hawthorn (twice), Collingwood, west coast and Richmond all passed on Mcdonald AFTER our last pick. Every team bar port passed on him at least twice in the draft as a whole, some teams passing on him 3 or 4 times. But he's the messiah?? Really? Teams like hawthorn and geelong seem to know what they're doing. But dals rating of him is "so far off the mark of other clubs"??

Ummmmmm, and who said all these 5 kids will definitely make it?? Of course they all won't. Dalrymple wouldn't even privately think so.

Common sense seems to have knocked off early for the year around here.

Pretty sure the same teams would have passed on hamilton too - or picked guys rated higher than hamilton after hamilton went.
i agree that people are overrating mcdonald in their arguments but using your argument above is a little hypocritical.

 

[fronkalicious]

Pretty sure the same teams would have passed on hamilton too - or picked guys rated higher than hamilton after hamilton went.
i agree that people are overrating mcdonald in their arguments but using your argument above is a little hypocritical.

Huh? So you know for sure that teams after pick 39 would have passed on Hamilton?? How can you compare that to the reality that all those teams did actually pass on McDonald??

Mcdonald may actually end up being the best key defender in the comp. I have no idea. If dalrymples decisions are so poor, then sack him. But don't force him into drafting players he doesn't rate. Pretty simple really.

 

[yebiga]

I reckon ever since the griffen bmAC debacle the entire board is suffering from post traumatic stress. No one can make any innocent observation without the observation triggering a strong emotional response: anger, insults, dummy spits etcetra

I have looked at the videos of these 5. Amigos we picked last week and I have say the talent is very impressive. They all use the ball beautifully, they all find targets under pressure. Hamilton moves with some real class, has classic kicky action. Dale runs through lines at real speed and has that rangy tough physic. Webb is tough inside and smart. McLean has a load of tricks and marks beautifully and Daniel is something else

Really like all of them

The club has made a bold move - good on them
Many include me believe we could have should have snuck in a tall but so be it - let's see what we come up with in the rooky draf.

In the interim let us all do a collective kumbayah hug and promise to be nicer and more tolerant to each other

We are after all , all Bulldogs

 

[womble54]

I reckon ever since the griffen bmAC debacle the entire board is suffering from post traumatic stress. No one can make any innocent observation without the observation triggering a strong emotional response: anger, insults, dummy spits etcetra

I have looked at the videos of these 5. Amigos we picked last week and I have say the talent is very impressive. They all use the ball beautifully, they all find targets under pressure. Hamilton moves with some real class, has classic kicky action. Dale runs through lines at real speed and has that rangy tough physic. Webb is tough inside and smart. McLean has a load of tricks and marks beautifully and Daniel is something else

Really like all of them

The club has made a bold move - good on them
Many include me believe we could have should have snuck in a tall but so be it - let's see what we come up with in the rooky draf.

In the interim let us all do a collective kumbayah hug and promise to be nicer and more tolerant to each other

We are after all , all Bulldogs

Agree agree - like the last bit - interesting how quickly the board has fallen apart since D-day! The only picks I have decided I have major reservations about are Webb and McLean over Menadue, Blakely and Vickers-Willis. Rightly or wrongly that's what I'll be measuring Dalrymple on if those three turn out to be the very good players I suspect they might (particularly the Connor Bro's) and ours boys don't pan out. I really hope Dalrymple is the smartest guy in the room.

 

[TBOW]

No problems, all you need to to trade in a KP is to pony up your captain and pick 6 and then pay him a million a year until he retires. Can you see why this might not be sustainable long term?

Not all kpp's are Tom Boyd.
We could be quite simply lining up a servicable key defender who we feel fits our structure, gameplan & list profile perfectly. A servicable key back will rarely cost more than a high second round pick.

Or we could be looking at someone like Rance as a free agent.

In a way it comes down to what value you place on list places. Would you rather fill up 3 list spots on developing talls who will have no impact for a couple of years- if ever, or just trade in guys who are ready to go?

 

[Mofra]

In a way it comes down to what value you place on list places. Would you rather fill up 3 list spots on developing talls who will have no impact for a couple of years- if ever, or just trade in guys who are ready to go?

Since Foster (who as traded in as a forward), which key backs have we traded in successfully?

The best CHB (Grant), FB (Harris/Lake), pure lockdown (Morris), rebounding (Gilbee) and agile running defenders (Harbrow) in recent memory have all been picks at the ND or in two cases, rookies.

I'm just tired of having to cobble together a spine year after year. Rance is excellent but likely to re-sign with the Tigers, and who else is available? The cupboard is pretty bare for quality talls at the trade table - most are drafted and developed.

 

[TBOW]

Since Foster (who as traded in as a forward), which key backs have we traded in successfully?

The best CHB (Grant), FB (Harris/Lake), pure lockdown (Morris), rebounding (Gilbee) and agile running defenders (Harbrow) in recent memory have all been picks at the ND or in two cases, rookies.

I'm just tired of having to cobble together a spine year after year. Rance is excellent but likely to re-sign with the Tigers, and who else is available? The cupboard is pretty bare for quality talls at the trade table - most are drafted and developed.

Firstly I don't think we should be judging our current list management on past regimes.

Secondly, I haven't understood all the froth about getting in a key back scince it started a couple of months back.

There's no doubt a solid defence is a vital component of any flag tilt, but I think recent history shows that structure, cohesion & organisation is more important than the names of the players lining up down there.

I don't think it is too hard to cobble together a functional backline if all your team structures are functioning correctly. Besides I have seen more than enough in Talia, Roberts & Roughie to be confident in their prospects going forward.

If I had to guess at why we didn't rate any of the talls available in the draft I'd say it was because they lack the qualities we drafted in- skill & decision making.

I think we've all witnessed in the last few years how costly turnovers have become in the modern game, I think we are trying to build a team across the board that maintains possession. It's a strategy that I am more than happy with.

 

[Mofra]

I don't think it is too hard to cobble together a functional backline if all your team structures are functioning correctly. Besides I have seen more than enough in Talia, Roberts & Roughie to be confident in their prospects going forward.

I guess this is where most of us on BF disagree to some extent - personally I see big question marks over each of them. I really hope they all make it but I remain doubtful.

Given Roberts will be out at stages during the year with his shoulder, Roughy likely to have issues as well and Talia couldn't crack the senior side last year Bevo has a big task ahead of him in forging a coherent back 6.

 

[Gmod23]

I guess this is where most of us on BF disagree to some extent - personally I see big question marks over each of them. I really hope they all make it but I remain doubtful.

Given Roberts will be out at stages during the year with his shoulder, Roughy likely to have issues as well and Talia couldn't crack the senior side last year Bevo has a big task ahead of him in forging a coherent back 6.

I think Talia and Roberts were left their to develop understanding between them. Rather than in a team that was consistently turning the ball over and they may have lost confidence as a result.
Like Roberts and redpath, hoping they are both regulars for us soon. Redpath needs more endurance, Roberts more acceleration.

I think the only reason we are focusing on the defense is because of Boyd. We have never had a FF like him in my life. So, for the first time everyone is worried about our defense....

 

[dogwatch]

Agree agree - like the last bit - interesting how quickly the board has fallen apart since D-day!

Not just draft day. The board has not been a pleasant place for most of the off season. It's a real turn-off.

 

[Mofra]

I think Talia and Roberts were left their to develop understanding between them. Rather than in a team that was consistently turning the ball over and they may have lost confidence as a result.

Roberts & Roughy were deliberately not played in the same team as they are similar and both had shoulder issues last year.
Talia does everything except defend his direct opponent. Given his kicking has imporved, I think he will improve as a footballer - how much he can improve is the question

I think the only reason we are focusing on the defense is because of Boyd. We have never had a FF like him in my life. So, for the first time everyone is worried about our defense....

Quite a few here expressed defence as a bigger issue than our F50 - personally I saw holes all over our list, and we've done ok in filling many of those holes (I thought rebounding defender should be near the top of the pile, so Darley's development, bringing in Biggs & drafting Webb is a good sign).

 

[timtamWB]

Not just draft day. The board has not been a pleasant place for most of the off season. It's a real turn-off.

Good to see that it's not just me. Once the pre season starts kicking off things should resume normal transmission (or at least I hope).

 

[GreatSouthWest]

While watching the 2013 Nat Champs i remember looking forward to the 2014 NC's based on the under-agers who played well and had genuine points of difference. This season i wasn't impressed by many. I can think of perhaps Parish, Mathieson and Tucker and that's just vic-based. They made the AA team but they came across as fairly vanilla players.

Perhaps we really rated the mid/small talent greater than next seasons crop at this stage, hence the focus on taking the 5 boys we did, over a KP type in the draft.

I'm all for at least one or two KP projects in the RD - but taking the best available players without position bias (with an eye on next years draftees) makes/made sense this season.

 

[Zgope1]

just watched the tac cup GF. Ahern was awesome IMO, Miller pretty good and Jayden Foster pretty sloppy. Didn't look a blue chip prospect really, very mark and goal. Head to the relevant thread for my brief of Mclean

 

[Bont2Bruce]

Since Foster (who as traded in as a forward), which key backs have we traded in successfully?

Ben Harrison was a good trade pickup for us in 2000, played four good years as a KPD in early 2000s.

 

[Lucky Star]

Ben Harrison was a good trade pickup for us in 2000, played four good years as a KPD in early 2000s.

Just choked on my cronut.

 

[Mofra]

So I (debatable) in 14 years?
I know a lot of fans didn't rate him - I thought he was at least "serviceable" (not great).

For mine, that's an argument to draft & develop.

 

[TBOW]

So I (debatable) in 14 years?
I know a lot of fans didn't rate him - I thought he was at least "serviceable" (not great).

For mine, that's an argument to draft & develop.

But how many key defenders did we target in that time?

Not having traded in key defenders in the past is irrelevant to actively doing it in the future, if we decide that we are only taking mature key defenders we will get in mature key defenders. It doesn't even have to be a trade- there will be players like Jack Frost or even Harry Taylor developing in the state leagues that we can monitor.

 

[Mofra]

Not having traded in key defenders in the past is irrelevant to actively doing it in the future

Actually, it does indicate that it's not easy - the discussion we are having is based on trading one in, and I am saying it is not easy to do and using recent history as a precedent. If you think trading in a decent key back is an easy thing to do, I disagree but am interested to hear why you think so.

 

[TBOW]

Since Foster (who as traded in as a forward), which key backs have we traded in successfully?

Depends on how you measure success, but I would say Kingsley Hunter was handy as a back. I'd also say Curley was servicable although he was delisted then drafted by us.
If we're just talking about mature players Morris was 22 when he started.

 

[Mofra]

Depends on how you measure success, but I would say Kingsley Hunter was handy as a back. I'd also say Curley was servicable although he was delisted then drafted by us.
If we're just talking about mature players Morris was 22 when he started.

I liked Todd Curley, but he was a flanker.
Hunter was a role player and played some decent games for us, but only lasted 3 or 4 years and was often sent forward too.

So we can put down zero in the last decade and one this century? That to me indicates it's not an easy thing to do.

 

[Ant_]

Campbell & Bernard Toohey were pretty good in defence

 

[TBOW]

Actually, it does indicate that it's not easy - the discussion we are having is based on trading one in, and I am saying it is not easy to do and using recent history as a precedent. If you think trading in a decent key back is an easy thing to do, I disagree but am interested to hear why you think so.

Harry Taylor was 22 when he was drafted.
Ted Richards was a laughing stock from Essendon.
Josh Gibson was traded for a 2nd & 3rd rounder.
Tom Lonergan was a useless full forward.
Port got Hombsh PLUS Neade for pick 28

In one draft St.Kilda traded in Delaney & Bruce for next to nothing.

Jared Rivers, Troy Chaplin, Frawley all free agents.

I'm not trying to argue that it is easy. I'm just saying that IF the cubs strategy is to get in mature key defenders, they will get it done.
I would also contend that recent history hasn't had us in a situation where we have been really actively seeking out mature key backs, so isn't actually that relevant.

 

[Mofra]

Campbell & Bernard Toohey were pretty good in defence

Ah Gloves Campbell, good call. Liked him as a player.
Toohey continued our tradition of tough as nail no 8's as defenders - Dent and Southern were 8s as well, and we can't avoid mentioning **** Kennedy

 

[TBOW]

I liked Todd Curley, but he was a flanker.
Hunter was a role player and played some decent games for us, but only lasted 3 or 4 years and was often sent forward too.

So we can put down zero in the last decade and one this century? That to me indicates it's not an easy thing to do.

Fair enough, I thought I remembered Curley playing almost a Morris role (maybe I'm thinking of Dent?)