Analysis General Regression Anxiety thread

[supernova_]

I dont care what position it is, but we need leadership, emotion, aggression, presence, physicality in whatever players we recruit to the club. Sadly I think our recruit have lacked, we have a plethora of quiet, shy athletic kids - we actually need a few Campbell Brown's

Dixon on the park will go a long way to helping out here

 

[TheSunGod]

The next 12 months will be interesting when you line us up against GWS. We took a completely different tact with our list structure whereas they loaded up with A and B grade midfielders and tall key forwards. They then targeted a seasoned ruck and also experienced defenders. They have a senior list of still 48 players whereas we're on 38. They even have a tagger on $1.2 million a year!! What their midfield lacks in quality, they more than make up for it with quantity. We lose O'Meara and Ablett and we're rudderless.

We went the direction of drafting the cream in O'Meara & Martin as 17 year olds and then targeting holes in particular areas of our list. KK off half back, 2MP as other talls weren't effective (apart from Lynch) and Garlett / Miller as our half forwards like Hall just aren't up to it. Our depth has been poor and we have a stack of players on the list that have attitude issues, don't work hard enough or just aren't good enough.

Rocket is just what we needed. He doesn't allow the tail to wag the dog, which now appears to have been happening at the club. Brown's scathing observation of our player's walking around like rock stars pretty much sums it up. McKenzie for the first time showed intensity, Matera is fighting for his spot and the others now know that reputations count for zero. We were never a top 6 proposition this year and neither are GWS. Their generous concessions which disappear slowly each year until 2018 will catch up with them.

Our core group of Ablett, Prestia, Lynch, Bennell, Martin, Wright, Thompson, May, Matera, McKenzie, KK, Dixon, O'Meara, Garlett, Leslie, Swallow, Rischitelli, Miller will be fine.

We need to target a genuine ruck from another club quickly. Leuenberger seems to be on the nose down the road.....

Yes but GWS fans have convinced themselves that the concessions both clubs received are practically the same lol - they are pushing this argument on the main board in the "Have GWS gone past Gold Coast" thread. Apparently the mini-draft was just astute trading, their bigger list size means stuff all because they haven't used all of it, and the millions of dollars in extra salary cap concessions until the end of 2018 is justified and necessary because they have a larger list. Feel like I'm arguing with brainwashed 5 year olds... Or Dons supporters..

Didn't see / read it but a bit rich for Brown to criticise our younger boys for walking around like rock stars when he was probably the worst offender. Then I hear he criticised Gaz for hardly ever training with the boys as well. Bit rich coming from a bloke who failed miserably in what he was recruited for - to protect our young blokes (ends up breaking one's jaw) and probably missing more games / training sessions through suspension than anyone at the club. True colours coming out in that bloke. ******* Sniper.

 

[Iva Bigun]

I dont care what position it is, but we need leadership, emotion, aggression, presence, physicality in whatever players we recruit to the club. Sadly I think our recruit have lacked, we have a plethora of quiet, shy athletic kids - we actually need a few Campbell Brown's

Dixon on the park will go a long way to helping out here

I thought this is what we were getting with Malcheski, turns out the early signs are we have another player that cant hit a target

 

[FavoriteSun]

Yes but GWS fans have convinced themselves that the concessions both clubs received are practically the same lol - they are pushing this argument on the main board in the "Have GWS gone past Gold Coast" thread. Apparently the mini-draft was just astute trading, their bigger list size means stuff all because they haven't used all of it, and the millions of dollars in extra salary cap concessions until the end of 2018 is justified and necessary because they have a larger list. Feel like I'm arguing with brainwashed 5 year olds... Or Dons supporters..

Didn't see / read it but a bit rich for Brown to criticise our younger boys for walking around like rock stars when he was probably the worst offender. Then I hear he criticised Gaz for hardly ever training with the boys as well. Bit rich coming from a bloke who failed miserably in what he was recruited for - to protect our young blokes (ends up breaking one's jaw) and probably missing more games / training sessions through suspension than anyone at the club. True colours coming out in that bloke. ******* Sniper.

Nathans Bock & Krakoeur missed a few more i reckon........

 

[TARGETMAN]

I thought this is what we were getting with Malcheski, turns out the early signs are we have another player that cant hit a target

no one has hit the target yet. except for roughy in the early days

 

[TheHoneyBadger]

Rocket is a gun coach. Give him a year or two and you guys will be real contenders - and there's enough talent around to make ground in the interim.

 

[Matchu]

Series of unfortunate events that have occurred on the Gold Coast:

• Underage recruit Alex Keath chooses a career in cricket instead of joining the Suns.
• Mature recruit Nathan Krakouer retires after one season with the Suns.
• Mature recruit and vice-captain Nathan Bock suffers an horrific leg break early in the second season that essentially ends his career.
• Mature recruit Jared Brennan retires after a hot and (mostly) cold stint with the Suns.
• Mature recruit Campbell Brown drunkenly punches teammate Steven May in Los Angeles and is sacked as a result.
• Mini draft pick 1 Jack Martin injures his shoulder in his first game and misses half a season as a result.
• Mini draft pick 1 Jaeger O'Meara discovers he has chronic knee tendonitis and faces several rounds of surgeries in a bid to extend his career.
• Mature recruit and captain Gary Ablett Jr suffers a serious shoulder surgery that he is yet to recover from.

That's a pretty bad run of luck.

 

[vide0n]

H

Series of unfortunate events that have occurred on the Gold Coast:

• Underage recruit Alex Keath chooses a career in cricket instead of joining the Suns.
• Mature recruit Nathan Krakouer retires after one season with the Suns.
• Mature recruit and vice-captain Nathan Bock suffers an horrific leg break early in the second season that essentially ends his career.
• Mature recruit Jared Brennan retires after a hot and (mostly) cold stint with the Suns.
• Mature recruit Campbell Brown drunkenly punches teammate Steven May in Los Angeles and is sacked as a result.
• Mini draft pick 1 Jack Martin injures his shoulder in his first game and misses half a season as a result.
• Mini draft pick 1 Jaeger O'Meara discovers he has chronic knee tendonitis and faces several rounds of surgeries in a bid to extend his career.
• Mature recruit and captain Gary Ablett Jr suffers a serious shoulder surgery that he is yet to recover from.

That's a pretty bad run of luck.

You could create a similar list for every club but that does seem pretty bad for a club five years in

 

[Matchu]

H
You could create a similar list for every club but that does seem pretty bad for a club five years in

It's more so the fact that a new club has had bad luck when it comes to most of the mature players it recruited at the start as well as the mini draft picks who were supposed to drive that age spread of the list. So you're mostly relying on the '10 draft class to drive the team forward and it just doesn't appear to be working.

Doesn't seem to be going down the same way at GWS.

 

[gcsunsfc]

Think the biggest difference between the two clubs are the 17 year old pre-listed recruits. They got Treloar, Shiel, Cameron...Can't remember who else. We got Mckenzie, Shaw, Matera...That's 3 matchwinners vs. 3 talented but lazy average players to date.

 

[Iva Bigun]

It's more so the fact that a new club has had bad luck when it comes to most of the mature players it recruited at the start as well as the mini draft picks who were supposed to drive that age spread of the list. So you're mostly relying on the '10 draft class to drive the team forward and it just doesn't appear to be working.

Doesn't seem to be going down the same way at GWS.

No 1 draft pick Patton does 2 knees
No1 draft pick Tom Boyd goes home
So does Dyson to the Dees
Cameron suffers ear drum damage, not the same player (at the moment)


Sheil likely to leave at seasons end

as vide0n said, you can make a case for many teams regarding bad luck.

 

[Matchu]

No 1 draft pick Patton does 2 knees
No1 draft pick Tom Boyd goes home
So does Dyson to the Dees
Cameron suffers ear drum damage, not the same player (at the moment)


Sheil likely to leave at seasons end

as vide0n said, you can make a case for many teams regarding bad luck.

There was a reason I didn't mention Josh Caddy. A lot of the unlucky stuff that has happened on the Gold Coast has been out of their control. Trying to convince a current player to stay when he is interested in leaving is completely different to say a career ending injury. I'll give you Patton doing his knees and Cameron hurting his ear as unlucky situations.

 

[Iva Bigun]

There was a reason I didn't mention Josh Caddy. A lot of the unlucky stuff that has happened on the Gold Coast has been out of their control. Trying to convince a current player to stay when he is interested in leaving is completely different to say a career ending injury. I'll give you Patton doing his knees and Cameron hurting his ear as unlucky situations.

What about Boyd and his pea heart?

 

[Matchu]

What about Boyd and his pea heart?

Similar to Josh Caddy. It's something the club had some control over.

 

[Stroppy]

Regarding the thread title:
yes to a general regression the last 10 games. Some rubbish before then (especially the 1st West Coast game in 2014) but some of the recent ones have been flat out embarrassing even with a ludicrously young list.

Yes, somewhat anxious about it but the list is still young and these are uncharted team-building waters for the Suns and GWS and hiccups should be expected on the way.

Reasons for optimism:
- Rocket can coach and is even trying to improve skills (wonders never cease)
- a bunch of the Suns players have the potential to be top 100 or even top 30 players and there is still time to get there
- some of these players are Big Dudes and some are even key forwards

- clubs that keep drafting midfielders because they are safer picks are kidding themselves; big blokes flame out more often but if you don't have any good ones in your spine you can't win consistently enough; keep picking em' Scotty​

- some players don't become elite until mid-20's so there is still hope for the currently 'not good enough'

- the top 80 in AFL player rankings includes JPK, Jordan Lewis, Goldstein, Jobe Watson, Stevie J, Gaz himself, Robbie Gray, Matt Priddis, Sam Jacobs, Dane Swan, Sam Mitchell, Dayne Zorko (doh!), Josh Gibson, Mundy, Barlow, Eddie Betts, Will Minson and a few others; most of these were no better than 'good' when they were 22 or 23 and some were even close to getting the boot​

Finally
- some people say you only have to be 5% off your game to get beaten easily, so we are only really 6 or 7% away from being really good!
- Gaz will be here for 3 more seasons after this one

 

[kreglze]

This thread will be getting a work out tonight.

 

[Experimental]

Okay, here are the facts presented purely objectively - no speculation:

• The Suns have won 3 games out of the past 17
• Our last win was against St Kilda, the wooden spooners of 2014, in round 19 of last year
• Guy McKenna was replaced by Rodney Eade in the off-season after missing out on finals in 2014
• The club gave no reasoning for McKenna's sacking other than the want to win a premiership. Anything else is purely speculation.
• Rodney Eade's GC Suns record currently stands at 0 wins, 4 losses.
• Our four 2015 losses have been to clubs who finished 18th (wooden spoon), 17th, 16th, and 3rd.
• Three of our four losses in 2015 were to the bottom three clubs of 2014.

In saying all of this, what exactly has Eade shown to the members and fans of the Gold Coast Suns to instil confidence in his gameplan and coaching style? I'm a supporter of Rocket and this post isn't a 'Guy vs. Rodney' argument, but I'm trying to think of reasons that Rocket Eade has given us to support his plan for the future - and I'm stuck for a response.

Subjectively, I see players who simply don't care. No motivation, a severe underdevelopment of basic football skills, and general on-field incompetence.

Rodney Eade has not shown us anything of worth thus far, and the vision for the future which appeared seemingly clear last year has become, all of a sudden, obscure and faded.

As you'd all know, I'm a big supporter of Rocket, but if a revised gameplan somehow involves getting slaughtered by the bottom three teams of the previous year, then I don't see how anybody can support that. I love my club, but I'm honestly struggling to understand exactly what's going on.

It's all well and good to say that there needs to be 'rewiring' of the players, but to exit the 2014 season saying that there will be a coaching restructure involving nothing but sacking an already popular coach for one without premiership experience, only to start the 2015 season 0 - 4, then the club surely can't expect its fans and members to 'understand'. If coaching and development was the issue, keeping the entire coaching team apart from the senior coach is not going to fix a systematic issue. Refusing to explain anything to the public has done more harm than good.

Disappointment is putting it mildly. Our chairman has a lot of answering to do, and the club really needs to be more transparent with what it's doing.

We're a club in its infancy, and from the outside, it's already being gradually destroyed from the inside with complete silence from those responsible.

I've had enough of this 'bring back Bluey' nonsense, and the calls to sack Rocket are beyond stupid, but some honesty and communication is far overdue. I personally am struggling to blindly support a game plan that's seemingly secretive with no apparent plan to share it with those who make the club what it is: the members.

Without members, a club ceases to exist. In 2015, the Gold Coast Suns have treated their fans with complete disdain, and it saddens me to have said that. I'll continue to be a member, and I'll always love my club, but I feel this needs to be said.

GCFC Digital, please pass this on to whomever this concerns, because I'm extremely confident in saying I'm not the only one who feels 'left behind'.

 

[TheSunGod]

You can have the best game plan in the world but you won't win with only 25% of your side putting in any effort. That's what I noticed most tonight, a lack of effort from most of the side. That said, it is our skills that worry me the most. Weren't we supposed to have been using footies all summer to work on improving our skills?

 

[Matchu]

The scary thing is that the media is reporting the Suns premiership window has been slammed shut and they must focus on rebuilding their list.

Uh, what?

 

[TheSunGod]

The scary thing is that the media is reporting the Suns premiership window has been slammed shut and they must focus on rebuilding their list.

Uh, what?

Lol tinker maybe, cast away some dead wood certainly, but rebuild wtf? Will lmao should we get a good run at it next year with less injuries, players another year more experience and attuned to what Rocket demands and continue our natural upward progression. A fit Jaeger, Gaz, Harbs and Bull will make a big difference to our side.

 

[Matchu]

Something that went through my mind during the GWS game when I saw Malceski playing forward was that perhaps Eade is tanking. Tanking to get a draft pick that he will use to play the Rodney Eade way, since he has inherited this list. Consider this, the Brisbane Lions finished last in 1998 and went on to become arguably the greatest team of all time with their triple premiership team. Ashcroft, Akermanis, Bradshaw, Black, Hart, Johnson, Keating, Lappin, Lynch, Leppitsch, Power, the Scotts and Voss were all there in 1998 when they received the wooden spoon. Lethal came in and shook the place up which ultimately lead to amazing success.

It's a glimmer of hope in what appears to be a dark time at the Suns. The addition of a top 3 draft pick could be just what the Suns need to catapult themselves into the finals in 2016. Add in a healthy Ablett and O'Meara and the team could be really dangerous. Dips in footy aren't as uncommon as some may think. Hawthorn missed the finals in 2009 after winning the flag in 2008 and now we've seen the success they've gone on to have. I guess what I'm saying is that it is likely Eade has a plan during this questionable period.

 

[jackenny]

I think the calls for a new coach are stupid, too. We went through a downward spiral, blamed the coach, and then we sacked Bluey as a result. We still suck despite a new coach (a very good coach, Rodney Eade is no pushover). In my eyes, it's becoming more and more clear that it's not a coaching issue.

I think it's a list management issue. Our list has no depth.

We shouldn't be sacking coaches. We should be fixing our list, and fortunately Eade has implied this to be the case in one of his pressers, mentioning our 'meh' midfield depth.

Our backline is pretty disgusting, too. Not in a 'this player isn't performing' way, but in the sense that there appears to be absolutely no cohesion - pressure is weak (can't get the ball), and if they somehow manage to cause a turnover or it just happens by accident, our defenders / midfielders ability to create exits or rebound the ball effectively is pretty woeful.

Meh. That's all: MEH!

The only excuse I have is that our side is facing some pretty severe injuries, mostly in our midfield, where most of our 'lack of depth' apparently exists.

Mind you, it was a chance for some players to really stand up and make a point: Rischitelli has really stepped up his game this season and deserves major props.

I sometimes feel like Harley Bennel is our Richard Tambling, a player who shows glimpses of amazing, freakish talent, but in the end won't do much and will just leave us disappointed.

 

[supernova_]

I think the calls for a new coach are stupid, too. We went through a downward spiral, blamed the coach, and then we sacked Bluey as a result. We still suck despite a new coach (a very good coach, Rodney Eade is no pushover). In my eyes, it's becoming more and more clear that it's not a coaching issue.

I think it's a list management issue. Our list has no depth.

We shouldn't be sacking coaches. We should be fixing our list, and fortunately Eade has implied this to be the case in one of his pressers, mentioning our 'meh' midfield depth.

Our backline is pretty disgusting, too. Not in a 'this player isn't performing' way, but in the sense that there appears to be absolutely no cohesion - pressure is weak (can't get the ball), and if they somehow manage to cause a turnover or it just happens by accident, our defenders / midfielders ability to create exits or rebound the ball effectively is pretty woeful.

Meh. That's all: MEH!

The only excuse I have is that our side is facing some pretty severe injuries, mostly in our midfield, where most of our 'lack of depth' apparently exists.

Mind you, it was a chance for some players to really stand up and make a point: Rischitelli has really stepped up his game this season and deserves major props.

I sometimes feel like Harley Bennel is our Richard Tambling, a player who shows glimpses of amazing, freakish talent, but in the end won't do much and will just leave us disappointed.

I think it's absolutely our midfield. Jaeger and Ablett accounted for close to 15-20 tackles per game, we haven't picked up the slack, Prestia accumulates but almost seems to run one way. We do lack depth, and short on rotations.

 

[SandyToes]

I think it's a list management issue. Our list has no depth.

This

 

[Matchu]

I think it's a list management issue. Our list has no depth.

You make a great point. It's very hard to create depth when your club has only played a total of 92 games. Take out Ablett (77 games) and O'Meara (44 games) and you have 63 remaining games of the 184 total games played. So, at best, the players replacing Ablett and O'Meara have played 31.5 games each for the club. In reality you have guys like Sexton and Miller replacing the injured two and they've only played a total of 31 games. Acquiring experienced players from other clubs can solve this problem but the Suns don't seem overly keen to do that.