List Mgmt. 2015 Trade & Free Agency Hellscape Discussion Thread (PG546: Anderson PG732: Bastinac)

[ozzyoslo]

My understanding is Dal is on less than Black and Basti.

Not big dollars at all.

I'd doubt that, but then I have no idea.....what the money is.

 

[GarnerSmash]

I too, think we'll may fall short with these players, what do you do with these players come this time next year?

Boomer retires after breaking games record? He wants to be a 1 team player and Im weighing in that we wont extend his contract when the others will go.
Dish, retires.
Waite, may extend his life by another year.
Dal Santo, same same but different........we should help him get his medallion it may be at another club. But we shouldn't be paying the big dollars.
Wells, fingers crossed but more than likely not to get up for 2016, if he does its a bonus.
Thompson not sure to be honest. He has gone backwards, many would argue this year.

All bar Wells are in pretty damn good shape for their age, with Boomer, Dish and Waite in as good condition as at any point in their careers, and Dal suffering his first soft tissue injury this year. All these guys could potentially keep playing next year without any real drop off in form or ability. This is where the injury prevention and core activity focus of Steve Saunders is coming to the fore.

Wellsy needs to not train heavily for 4 months before we can determine whether or not he will be capable of pushing on next year. Personally I think the rest is all he really needs, then management from that point. That said I think his body is probably the weakest of the lot and it is likely his last year in 2016.

Hunter will eventually go third tall or he will be out of a job within 12 months.

The problem is that with age there is always the question mark, the doubt that time has run out. I'm not so sure but for a bloke who wants to play in a flag they will want to do so with a team coming into its perceived window rather than one perceived to be on its way out.

 

[Heaps of fun]

Silver played less this year than last year........Wood needs more game time or he will be asking for a trade, Dumont should stay after we have stuck thick through his court case.
Turner is going nicely.....tick
Brown shouldnt be included in this conversation........so valuable he is to the club.
And Garner everyone has been salivating at the chance to see him play.

Just talking about young guys getting opportunities. They take them and are good enough and they'll stay in the side, otherwise it's just good experience.

 

[Moti]

So it appears we are keeping Harper?/ Theres been no talk of the Bullies chasing him yet?? maybe theyre all waiting for him to be delisted?

If Trade Period finishes as expected, we have failed to add HB speed so he should be sat down day one of pre-season trading and told that is his future and that is where his head should be.

 

[naturally north]

Does anyone really think it would be a custodial sentence based on what seems to be known about the case?

Dunno probably won't do time, but would think any sort of guilty verdict would be career ending in the AFL.

 

[Deleted member 98541]

Havent checked in since the morning, covered the thread title in case of spoiler.
Caught up on ten pages.
And nothing.
So dissapoint.

 

[Black2Blue]

So it appears we are keeping Harper?/ Theres been no talk of the Bullies chasing him yet?? maybe theyre all waiting for him to be delisted?

Reckon you might be right Ozzy. If Basti gets traded, we already have 5 departures and 1 arrival (Jedi), so with 4 picks available we don't actually need to delist anyone. A rookie upgrade and 3 teenagers is plenty for the draft. Harps showed enough in the 2s, as did BMac, as did Maj, so delisting them for a 60-70-something pick wouldn't make sense.

 

[giantroo]

 

[InFineForm]

I think we did that well this year giving Dumont, McDonald, Wood, Garner, Turner and Brown all chances to prove themselves.

It'd be nice to get to the end of 2016 with all of these (and Anderson) having played 15+ games, including finals. Along with Durdin, Vicker-Willis, Neilson & Fordham all getting a taste. This would eliminate a lot of the transition risk with retirements.
It's good to type all these names out & think of the promise in them.

 

[Flawed Genius]

Port/Richmond/GC deal:

 

[Flawed Genius]

If Richmond trade for Yarran, they'll effectively have traded Pick 19, pick 31 & their 2nd rounder in 2016 for Yarran and Townsend.

 

[TruRoos7]

Said it once will say it again, we are pushing for a flag and adding in Waite and Dal and Higgo was a way of getting there faster. Problem was Waite and Dal limited younger players exposure at the top level. From young players looking to move they see the limited game time being offered and chose other clubs. There is a huge risk of us sliding in the next few years once boomer et al retire and if they play on it just means less time for younger guys to get a gig, hence the catch 22. We want classy players but we won't give our own guys a go so why would someone join us.

 

[giantroo]

Now expect the Yarran deal to be completed.

 

[koshari]

Look I do think spud is up to it, but it is frightening to think of losing 6 players at end of next year.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

possibly so but we need to treat the problem rather than the symptom.

 

[koshari]

We want classy players but we won't give our own guys a go so why would someone join us.

so who precicely was deserving and not given a go?

 

[Mordecai]

http://m.theaustralian.com.au/news/...ce-might-be-gone/story-e6frg6n6-1227575649577

 

[giantroo]

http://m.theaustralian.com.au/news/...ce-might-be-gone/story-e6frg6n6-1227575649577

Could you paste the article please?

 

[koshari]

Though there are posters that have been here for years that have never quite worked out what it takes to make a footy team work together.

personally i i dont really think its an exact science, on any given year there are going to be plenty of clubs much better resourced that as BF folk failing in this pursuit.

 

[Istanbul Roo]

It'd be nice to get to the end of 2016 with all of these (and Anderson) having played 15+ games, including finals. Along with Durdin, Vicker-Willis, Neilson & Fordham all getting a taste. This would eliminate a lot of the transition risk with retirements.
It's good to type all these names out & think of the promise in them.

In general we can say experienced players are better than inexperienced players. Despite this my hope is that MacKenzie has pushed out Dal Santo by end of next season; that Dumont has overtaken Gibson; that Anderson is pushing out Wells; and that Firrito is being replaced by either Neilson or Durdin (while our other two experienced key defenders are able to organize them in games). Harvey is irreplaceable, yet someone will have to take his place (not role) in the 22 - maybe Turner?

Petrie and Waite seem the problem - Daw is not assured to replace either given his legal situation, and Wood and Black, who would bring a different mix to forward line, have lost form.
I still like Black and think he will be better next season after an off-season of weights on shoulder.

 

[Flawed Genius]

Emma Quayle ‏@emmasq 31s32 seconds ago
Hearing Carlton's already knocking back 19 for Yarran. Surely they come around.

 

[Devington]

Emma Quayle ‏@emmasq 31s32 seconds ago
Hearing Carlton's already knocking back 19 for Yarran. Surely they come around.

Carlton need to take that and run.

 

[Mordecai]

Could you paste the article please?

Search in Google + open incogito worked for me. Here you go:

NORTH Melbourne is in an interesting position given the age of most of its key players and the fact it has played in the last two preliminary finals but haven’t progressed further.

It’s the obvious call but I’ve got to make it anyway — the Kangaroos need to win the premiership either this year or next.

But is the list good enough? I’m not sure.

There are 17 players on the list who are turning 28 or over in 2016 and seven players — Brent Harvey, Nick Dal Santo, Michael Firrito, Drew Petrie, Scott Thompson, Daniel Wells and Jarrad Waite — who are 30 or older.

All of them are critical players in Brad Scott’s flag push.

To me, the immediate issue for North Melbourne is that three of those 30 or older players are starting 18 key position defenders and two are starting 18 key position forwards. That is the biggest problem.


Ben Brown is developing OK as a third tall but the concern is soon he will get the first or second defender and after that, there aren’t many others given Aaron Black looks like he might be on the move.

Robbie Tarrant has emerged as a very good defender and his decision to re-sign was absolutely critical, probably more critical to North Melbourne’s chances of a premiership and its future endeavours than people realise.

Drew Petrie and Jarrad Waite are a good forward combination but both players are in the twilight of their careers. Picture: Michael Klein



Sam Durdin is one who can play forward or back but he still, in my opinion, has a lot more developing and learning about the game to do in terms of involving himself and competing harder. I still think he’s a fair way off. Daniel Nielson is 194cm but only had his first season this year and is untried and Joel Tippett has been given his chances.

A decision needs to be made in list management as to whether they head to the trade table or free agency in the next year or so to replace these guys or do they go to the draft? If it’s the latter then that puts a lot of pressure on in terms of ladder position and whether they stay competitive.

Trading for key position players, as we’ve seen in this trade period with Jake Carlisle and Charlie Dixon, is expensive in terms of draft picks and salary cap. Have the Roos got the space to go to free agency or trade and do a bit of a Hawthorn in that sense to fill the holes?

The ruck is also an area that needs to be addressed despite how amazing Todd Goldstein has been in the last couple of years. He rarely misses a game but what happens if he suffers a bad injury? Daniel Currie has been traded, American Eric Wallace has been delisted, Braydon Preuss is probably a mile off being able to compete at AFL level and Brown is a back-up and we don’t know what’s happening with Majak Daw.

North Melbourne is also not a very skilled kicking side — they don’t have many players who have speed and endurance and who kick it well, so that’s another area that needs addressing.

Shaun Atley has pace but can be a bit erratic with his ball use, Daniel Wells is the outside class but is always injured. The addition of Jed Anderson will help because he is aggressive, has pace and uses it well but they still have too many of the same type.

Forward Aaron Black could be on the move. Picture: Wayne Ludbey



I think of guys like Ben Cunnington, Ben Jacobs, Trent Dumont, Sam Gibson, Taylor Garner, Kieran Harper, Luke McDonald, Brad McKenzie — they’re all a similar type of player. While some might have good leg speed and others not, their ball use isn’t great. Ryan Bastinac also fits into that category but he might also be on the move.

Having class on the outside to finish off the hard work of grunt players like Andrew Swllow and Jack Ziebell — both who can kick goals as well — and Cunnington is why they missed Wells so much this year.

The acquisition of Jed Anderson was a good move but even more important is the whether to trade or keep Black decision. If they can get a first-round pick then you’d probably do the deal but he is so critical for the key position needs that I’d say try and convince him to stay and do all you can to keep him happy.

You can’t promise a guy 22 games but you try and win him over by saying we want to play you, we see there is a future for you here, we need the exact type of player you are but we just need you to improve in this area and this one. If you do that, you will get the opportunities here.

The best thing they could do is make it really clear for him and if Black needs some inspiration, he need not look further than Ryan Schoenmakers at Hawthorn.



WHAT THEY NEED


I’ve already mentioned the types the Kangaroos need earlier in the column because it’s so pertinent in how they shape up next year, where they are still in the premiership conversation.

Like all teams but it’s probably more critical in North Melbourne’s case, they also need a healthy list. Injuries to Goldstein, Petrie, Thompson, Waite and the Roos are in strife.

But what North Melbourne really needs is to make a decision: Continue to be competitive or start building for the future.



WHO’S UNDER THE PUMP


The Roos won’t make too many changes but there are some players who need to step up including Daw, who despite his off-field issues needs to step up on the field and be that guy who can step up in the ruck.

Aaron Mullett showed some good signs but went missing this year for one reason or another, Robbie Nahas was dropped for the semi-final and didn’t get back in for the preliminary final, Joel Tippett has been given his chances but can’t nail down a spot and Kieran Harper didn’t feature. If he doesn’t leave, Ryan Bastinac is also under the pump.

Majak Daw will be under the pump next year. Picture: Colleen Petch





WHO SHOULD GO


Leigh Adams and Nathan Grima have retired, Scott McMahon, Max Warren and Eric Wallace have been delisted and Daniel Currie has been traded so I don’t think there will be anything further from North Melbourne this season although I do have a big question mark on Daw because of his lack of consistency and effort. Tippett might soon run out of chances and I’m not sure about rookie Will Fordham.



CRYSTAL BALL


North Melbourne is interesting because if they don’t remain competitive it has an impact in a number of areas of the club, including membership. I think the mindset at the Roos usually is that they can’t just completely turn the list over and go for kids because they want to stay competitive but I think the time is coming, given they have 17 players 28 or older, that they need to invest in youth.

Really though, if North Melbourne is going to win a premiership it’s going to be in the next year or two but the problem with that is living for today is a problem for tomorrow. And tomorrow can come very quickly sometimes and really bite you.

If you trade your first pick out every year, we know that players brought in later in the draft aren’t always key players in premiership teams. So if North Melbourne do that, then the depth of players coming in to replace these older guys, the quality won’t be as good.

History says taking that approach doesn’t win you a premiership but rebuilding your list with good list management, planning, development of players you do bring in via the draft and then bringing in the right players to fill gaps does

 

[True North]

Thank god I've been busy today. Nothing on the AFL website and nothing too exciting here re Aish/Ablett/Fyfe/Sheil/Basti/Black.

Our average age will plummet next year when Boomer, Drew, Spud and Wells retire.

 

[marklovesbeer]

so who precicely was deserving and not given a go?

Obviously 'deserving' is the key word there, but some could argue that any one of Wood, Black or Daw would have really benefited from playing instead of Waite for the first ten or so rounds of the season.

 

[TruRoos7]

Stop looking with blinkers on, I love the club but we are putting ourselves into a corner and having no room to move. Bmac, Dumont wood, black Maj etc etc these guys need to otherwise get a good run at it or moved on. We need to know where they are all at. Relying on 6 30+ guys to win games won't help in the long run. I bet now we will fall short again next year, sadly and I also bet the above named by Heaps will not get 15+ games each. It is no use playing a guy for one game here and there for "development" they struggle to adapt from vfl to afl and just get dropped. How many times during the year did we call for Waite to be dropped only for the token revolving door of 1 change made and Waite still there the next week. It's symptomatic of the bigger issues we want a flag so we can't afford to play too many younger guys to aide their development.