The Law Royal Commission into Child Abuse

[CM86]

So what is being done to stop abuse happening right now? Why arent we devoting enormous resources to that?

Why is it more important to look at events from 40 years ago?

If there is not going to be any major outcome from this, of course it is a grievance process.

Of course we should worry more about fixing things still happening.

It isn't a matter of one or the other... stop trying to make it like it is...

It isn't a grievance process... this is why you are being called an apologist...

 

[chelseacarlton]

Yes, because if your goal is to focus on stopping current abuse then there is clearly something wrong with you. You should be joining the witch hunt over events from 40 years ago.

That's the real issue to worry about.

And if we can successfully gloss over the ALP and their long history of paedophiles rising to high ranks then that is very good.

If you include those who commit suicide before being gaoled, there would be more than a dozen, wouldnt there?

Just the ALP ey?.
What a ****wit you are!!
Edited
I hope you saw it.
Actually I should edit that last bit but I want you to see it first!.

 

[western royboy]

Some of the posting on this thread is truly abysmal.

If you think the RC is politically motivated - you've rocks in your head.

I'm not sure of the latest figures but I think they've held something like 4,000+ private sessions with survivors of CSA from all number of locations. It's not a catholic witch hunt - it's a root and branch review of a truly horrible situation. Each person granted a private session gets an opportunity to tell their story. Many, many including myself have broken their silence for the first time. Of that saves 1 person from going through hell then the RC will have been worth it.

The focus on the past is important because in every case and case study they are looking for markers that will make today and tomorrow's kids safer than on my day. The grilling of Pell is crucial - if nothing is going to change on the church hierarchy with regard to dealing with paedophile priests - how can you guarantee safety?

The answer I suggest is well known and that's probably the biggest problem the Catholics have going forward.

But it's not political and it's not religious - it's about protecting kids from sick ****s and ensuring less kids go through what many of us have.

Someone made a comment about the standard you walk by is the standard you accept - George chose his standard - time doesn't make it any better .

Pull your ducking heads on before you post redneck shit.

 

[Donners]

If there is not going to be any major outcome from this, of course it is a grievance process.

Of course we should worry more about fixing things still happening.

I'd suggest you follow the transcript from the public hearing which is coming up next week.

It won't get as much media attention as the last few months, but it will be highly relevant to "things still happening" and will hopefully lead to desperately needed reform of the Victorian legal system.

 

[HairyO]

I'd suggest you follow the transcript from the public hearing which is coming up next week.

It won't get as much media attention as the last few months, but it will be highly relevant to "things still happening" and will hopefully lead to desperately needed reform of the Victorian legal system.

I hope so. I seem to be an evil protector of pedos because im more concerned about stopping current and future events than rehashing old events already covered by previous enquiries.

 

[Chief]

I hope so. I seem to be an evil protector of pedos because im more concerned about stopping current and future events than rehashing old events already covered by previous enquiries.

But going over old events is the only way to learn and bring the truth out. You seem mainly upset that the church is under scrutiny, claiming it is somehow an anti-Catholic witch-hunt and appearing ignorant of all of the other institutions it has investigated.

 

[HairyO]

But going over old events is the only way to learn and bring the truth out. You seem mainly upset that the church is under scrutiny, claiming it is somehow an anti-Catholic witch-hunt and appearing ignorant of all of the other institutions it has investigated.

The problem is, particularly with Ballarat, the Vic inquiry already covered it in enormous detail and recommendations were made and implemented. Do we revisit the same 1970s events every 5 or 10 years? Im pretty sure those involved have already received compensation too (one of the families leading the media charge saying they just want something done had received $750,000 and the priest was gaoled).

So Im not sure what more comes from this. It will certainly be interesting to see if anything new gets recommended or we just see a re-hashing of what was found 10 years ago.

I would much rather the focus be on recent events and ensure there are new recommendations.

 

[western royboy]

The problem is, particularly with Ballarat, the Vic inquiry already covered it in enormous detail and recommendations were made and implemented. Do we revisit the same 1970s events every 5 or 10 years? Im pretty sure those involved have already received compensation too (one of the families leading the media charge saying they just want something done had received $750,000 and the priest was gaoled).

So Im not sure what more comes from this. It will certainly be interesting to see if anything new gets recommended or we just see a re-hashing of what was found 10 years ago.

I would much rather the focus be on recent events and ensure there are new recommendations.

Clearly you just don't get it

 

[HairyO]

Clearly you just don't get it

So how often do we revisit the events of 40 years ago?

 

[Gough]

Every ANZAC Day, just because some things are hard to face up to, doesn't mean we should look away.

 

[CM86]

So how often do we revisit the events of 40 years ago?

Everyday/night for some of the victims...

 

[HairyO]

Everyday/night for some of the victims...

Does that mean we hold enquiries every few years to cover the same events? Or do we find better ways to help the victims, and instead make the focus current and future events and ensuring we do our best to stop these things happening?

Apparently Im stirring up trouble by mentioning Aboriginal communities and the shocking rates of abuse, neglect, rape and violence, but there is almost zero coverage of this. It seems to be far easier to look at events from decades ago than do anything about what is happening today.

 

[CM86]

Does that mean we hold enquiries every few years to cover the same events? Or do we find better ways to help the victims, and instead make the focus current and future events and ensuring we do our best to stop these things happening?

Apparently Im stirring up trouble by mentioning Aboriginal communities and the shocking rates of abuse, neglect, rape and violence, but there is almost zero coverage of this. It seems to be far easier to look at events from decades ago than do anything about what is happening today.

No... We do things like a royal commission into child abuse... that looks at all the factors past and present... and convicts people guilty of harming or aiding in the harm of children...

Why can't we look at the past and the present? Why are you so desperate that you want us to just sweep it all under the rug?
Are you saying that the RC has not uncovered any new information???
Do you even know what the RC is actually doing?


And... you're stirring up trouble... by saying that it's white families vs Aboriginal families...
As has been explained to you already.

You troll.

 

[western royboy]

So how often do we revisit the events of 40 years ago?

It took me 33 years to address my abuse - sadly the church has not changed one bit - that's why they are part of this investigation. I'd like to say I don't care what the church does and I don't to an extent - but no kid should endure what any victim has suffered. So as long as they keep living in the past - they will continue to come under scrutiny. And by the way - I haven't received a $ from your precious church.

 

[sherb]

So how often do we revisit the events of 40 years ago?

As often as it takes for the victims to find peace and for the relevant institutions to change.

The fact that revisiting the disgraces of the past makes people such as yourself feel uncomfortable matters diddly squat in the overall scheme of things.

 

[western royboy]

Little bit sensitive when having to focus on your own, but very happy to accuse everyone of being right wing Catholics when it suits you.

Personally Im neither of those things. I just wish we would focus on current issues far more than 40 year old issues.

But that makes me some sort of apologist.



So what is being done to stop abuse happening right now? Why arent we devoting enormous resources to that?

Why is it more important to look at events from 40 years ago?

If there is not going to be any major outcome from this, of course it is a grievance process.

Of course we should worry more about fixing things still happening.

I'll add further that the compensation paid to victims is totally inadequate and you have to ask a pretty hard question to an organisation that preaches to its followers the importance of forgiveness and compassion, yet seeks to hide behind a financial redress scheme of last resort and uses high level legal counsel and strategy to minimise amounts paid to victims when it has literally $B in cash and assets.

The long term effects of abuse are well known, yet payments are capped at $75k.

I see hypocrisy at every level of the church. Just the other day a genuinely good priest wrote an opinion piece in the Geelong Advertiser criticising CBA for its heinous behaviour in denying life insurance claims.

The behaviour is poor, but a Cagholic Priest lecturing on poor conduct by an an Unsurance Company? Has he not heard of Catholic Church Insurances? They are the kings of unscrupulous conduct. Ask anyone who's had a CSA claim with them.

 

[HairyO]

It took me 33 years to address my abuse - sadly the church has not changed one bit - that's why they are part of this investigation. I'd like to say I don't care what the church does and I don't to an extent - but no kid should endure what any victim has suffered. So as long as they keep living in the past - they will continue to come under scrutiny. And by the way - I haven't received a $ from your precious church.

Im not religious, so its not my Church. If I was religious I certainly wouldnt willingly be a part of a cult like the Catholic Church.

As for no change, is there any evidence of any institutionalised abuses happening now? Any evidence of any institutionalised protection of priests abusing children now?

I'd say there has been enormous change.

Is there a reason why you havent received any compensation? Have you chosen not to apply or was it declined?

I'll add further that the compensation paid to victims is totally inadequate and you have to ask a pretty hard question to an organisation that preaches to its followers the importance of forgiveness and compassion, yet seeks to hide behind a financial redress scheme of last resort and uses high level legal counsel and strategy to minimise amounts paid to victims when it has literally $B in cash and assets.

The long term effects of abuse are well known, yet payments are capped at $75k.

I see hypocrisy at every level of the church. Just the other day a genuinely good priest wrote an opinion piece in the Geelong Advertiser criticising CBA for its heinous behaviour in denying life insurance claims.

The behaviour is poor, but a Cagholic Priest lecturing on poor conduct by an an Unsurance Company? Has he not heard of Catholic Church Insurances? They are the kings of unscrupulous conduct. Ask anyone who's had a CSA claim with them.

The payments made by the Catholic Church were about double what the various State Govts were paying for abuses suffered at their institutions, and the minimum standard to qualify for payment was far less (State Govts generally required a criminal conviction, the Catholics were paying without any convictions if reasonable evidence was provided).

Also, some families received many hundreds of thousands of dollars. $750,000 was the most I have seen.

So we shouldnt just be focussing on the Catholics here. The States have been woeful in their handling of victims over the years. I suspect they have been quite happy to see the focus of the RC being elsewhere.

 

[western royboy]

Im not religious, so its not my Church. If I was religious I certainly wouldnt willingly be a part of a cult like the Catholic Church.

As for no change, is there any evidence of any institutionalised abuses happening now? Any evidence of any institutionalised protection of priests abusing children now?

I'd say there has been enormous change.

Is there a reason why you havent received any compensation? Have you chosen not to apply or was it declined?



The payments made by the Catholic Church were about double what the various State Govts were paying for abuses suffered at their institutions, and the minimum standard to qualify for payment was far less (State Govts generally required a criminal conviction, the Catholics were paying without any convictions if reasonable evidence was provided).

Also, some families received many hundreds of thousands of dollars. $750,000 was the most I have seen.

So we shouldnt just be focussing on the Catholics here. The States have been woeful in their handling of victims over the years. I suspect they have been quite happy to see the focus of the RC being elsewhere.

We agree on one thing - Catholicsm is a cult.

What is an appropriate level of compensation in your opinion for a lifetime of memories and psychological effects - none of which are good, let alone the act which started it?

If the upper echelons of the church have not changed - which they haven't, how can you guarantee that things have changed?

I've not sought any financial redress - I've had nothing to do with the hypocritical cult for well over 20 years.

State Government schemes are those of last resort, again what price would you put on being raped? I'll give you my thoughts - there's no money in the ****ing world that can compensate me for the abuse and the ongoing effects it's had. I'll struggle to work again in a f/t capacity - will $75k cover me? Oh I forgot other people on here want to destroy welfare as well. How very Christian of them.

 

[HairyO]

We agree on one thing - Catholicsm is a cult.

What is an appropriate level of compensation in your opinion for a lifetime of memories and psychological effects - none of which are good, let alone the act which started it?

If the upper echelons of the church have not changed - which they haven't, how can you guarantee that things have changed?

I've not sought any financial redress - I've had nothing to do with the hypocritical cult for well over 20 years.

State Government schemes are those of last resort, again what price would you put on being raped? I'll give you my thoughts - there's no money in the ******* world that can compensate me for the abuse and the ongoing effects it's had. I'll struggle to work again in a f/t capacity - will $75k cover me? Oh I forgot other people on here want to destroy welfare as well. How very Christian of them.

Obviously you cant put a price on the damage that was done, but it can serve at least a couple of purposes: It makes the institutions at least financially accountable if those involved are no longer alive to prosecute, and it provides economic relief to help support victims.

I would be quite happy for the loss of tax-free status for these groups as well.

 

[western royboy]

Obviously you cant put a price on the damage that was done, but it can serve at least a couple of purposes: It makes the institutions at least financially accountable if those involved are no longer alive to prosecute, and it provides economic relief to help support victims.

I would be quite happy for the loss of tax-free status for these groups as well.

I've answered your question - what's it worth? Let's just say it's probably worth more than $75k which few actually receive. You only get one life, every person raped by these campaigners as a child has had theirs impaired to a degree - then they come up against the church.

 

[HairyO]

I've answered your question - what's it worth? Let's just say it's probably worth more than $75k which few actually receive. You only get one life, every person raped by these campaigners as a child has had theirs impaired to a degree - then they come up against the church.

One family was awarded $750k. I would think the real problem comes when you assign different amounts based on different levels of abuse. Do you pay based on what was done? Or the impact it had? Either way you arbitrarily assign a dollar value to physical and mental damage.

My only real response to how much would be: so much that it hurts.

The problem is the government payments were set so low it allowed other institutions to cap theirs at low levels too.

The US cases were more interesting because they were uncapped.

 

[CM86]

One family was awarded $750k. I would think the real problem comes when you assign different amounts based on different levels of abuse. Do you pay based on what was done? Or the impact it had? Either way you arbitrarily assign a dollar value to physical and mental damage.

My only real response to how much would be: so much that it hurts.

The problem is the government payments were set so low it allowed other institutions to cap theirs at low levels too.

The US cases were more interesting because they were uncapped.

You keep harping on about this $750k...

From what I've read, that is the highest ever... and a one off... and it's only because they refused to go through Pell's Melbourne Response Scheme.
They refused the $50k, and took them to court.
Ended up settling for $750k...

And the Melbourne response scheme does the payout, without admitting any guilt or really investigating/prosecuting the offenders...

So, what is your point?

It wasn't the Government.... it was the Church and Pell...

 

[western royboy]

You keep harping on about this $750k...

From what I've read, that is the highest ever... and a one off... and it's only because they refused to go through Pell's Melbourne Response Scheme.
They refused the $50k, and took them to court.
Ended up settling for $750k...

And the Melbourne response scheme does the payout, without admitting any guilt or really investigating/prosecuting the offenders...

So, what is your point?

It wasn't the Government.... it was the Church and Pell...

Refer my post #1455

 

[Pie eyed]

I hope so. I seem to be an evil protector of pedos because im more concerned about stopping current and future events than rehashing old events already covered by previous enquiries.

You are nothing but an Catholic apologist trying to "normalise" the behavior of your church by casting, equally disgusting but irrelevant to your churches crimes, light on other equally disturbing issues you allege were committed by other unassociated institutions.
There should be investigations into any child sexual abuse wiyth the Liberal, Labor or Natonal Parties if there is even a sniff of evidence such is or was going on.
No-one is even vaguely suggesting otherwise.
You however are trying to hide the actions of your church behind your faux outrage.
You are a weak campaigner pure and simple.
No amount of evidence, real or concocted for your own convenience, of the crimes of others in any way forgives Pell and the Catholic Church for their proven atrocities.

 

[BruceFromBalnarring]

You are nothing but an Catholic apologist trying to "normalise" the behavior of your church by casting, equally disgusting but irrelevant to your churches crimes, light on other equally disturbing issues you allege were committed by other unassociated institutions.
There should be investigations into any child sexual abuse wiyth the Liberal, Labor or Natonal Parties if there is even a sniff of evidence such is or was going on.
No-one is even vaguely suggesting otherwise.
You however are trying to hide the actions of your church behind your faux outrage.
You are a weak campaigner pure and simple.
No amount of evidence, real or concocted for your own convenience, of the crimes of others in any way forgives Pell and the Catholic Church for their proven atrocities.

The reason political parties were raised was because Keneally was the "go to Catholic" for Sky News for commentary on George Pell. She has written articles, made days worth of comments, etc etc. I don't think it's unreasonable, therefore, to have her own standards explored.