Mega Thread Oh yeah ... did you know there are 17 other teams? - General AFL discussion #9 - Blues posters only

[Doro]

Wasn't Betts a FA?

Yep. There was no compo because we took daisy a an FA, so it cancelled out.

 

[Jatz]

So why are people angry when they say we got nothing for him? They're pissed off at the Daisy acquisition?

 

[JustaBattler]

Ancient history of continued poor list management. Now been fixed with the SOS appointment, I don't think Eddie regrets his decision somehow.

Yes it is now ancient history - the useful definition of which in AFL is - last year..or last month or whatever the agenda is for whoever is pushing a line...

I don't have a problem with 'trading' players - don't get me wrong , in fact I have changed my stance on the whole issue under pressure of rational analysis and with reference to how the best in the business - Hawthorn went about rebuilding their list and continue to do so...

What I ant to see is aggressive trading for the longer term benefit of the Club - with a clear logic and rationale behind it.

What I will call out anytime anyone wants to be a revisionist / apologist for Betts/Garlett/Waite/Laidler Yarran...Henderson...Menzel...etc etc in exchange for

Thomas/Jones/Tutt/Jacksh and Whiley ...

is what madness was that? I mean seriously what madness was that?

now we have to have a sense of humour otherwise hit the despair button hard... given we are a desperate for a forward line and some genuine class around the place...

meanwhile - we still carry the biggest problem(s) - no one capable of playing alongside CrippJudd - same old same old fancy pantses getting paid the most and delivering the least.

 

[Jatz]

Menzel for Kerridge and the GWS 4 is a decent trade. The other one's are obvious blunders.

 

[JustaBattler]

So why are people angry when they say we got nothing for him? They're pissed off at the Daisy acquisition?

Not even - it is the total absence of care regarding list balance leadership and consequential fallout that ensued. Malthouse regime - he wasn't alone - burnt the house down simple as that. We are lft with very little meaningful trade currency - we can't even sell to get...

 

[The Old Dark Navy's]

Wasn't Betts a FA?

Yes and we had to match the terms to keep him. It was a significant pay rise. His 2013 was average. I dont know of any player that has significantly increased their payday after they dropped off in the last year of their contract.

In hindsight we can see reasons for what happened. That was Mick's 1st year though and you don't immediately blame a first year coach for a player losing form, and you don't then use that to give a payrise to a player who is down on form.

Easy to say now. Hindsight is 20/20 but I dare say the majority would have thought 500k+ after a so so year by Eddie's standards was excessive.

By 2014 we could see how badly the game plan was hurting some players. In 2013 we still had the ball movement gameplan instilled in us as plan B and as we won an elimination final using it, probably felt Mick had seen sense.

 

[Jatz]

Not even - it is the total absence of care regarding list balance leadership and consequential fallout that ensued. Malthouse regime - he wasn't alone - burnt the house down simple as that. We are lft with very little meaningful trade currency - we can't even sell to get...

So you're not angry with that in particular, just what followed?

 

[JustaBattler]

So you're not angry with that in particular, just what followed?

Yes...people have a right to move on for all sorts of reasons eg Bell - but I prefer to believe Betts words on why he left rather than anyone else's - and he made it clear he left because he was being paid 50K more by Adelaide than Carlton. Now lets consider that for a moment- 50K...for a genuine leader of the Club who performed week in week out and mentored Garlett/Yarran/Robinson to name the obvious ones...Malthouse despised true leaders- he dismantled teh heart and soul of Carlton in the effort to build his list of Jacksh/Jones and Tutt FFS.

no accident when Eddie left a bunch of others decided Malthouse? - GOGF - and the dominoes kept falling...no accident to see Henderson/Yarran open to offers and no accident to see Menzel just lose all interest...we were lucky Graham stuck it through the way he was treated..

ok so on a more interesting note I'll repost a link I posted in another thread...THIS is the way Carlton should think about trading...

http://www.theage.com.au/afl/tradin...e-the-rest-played-drafts-20151009-gk54vm.html

 

[Doro]

Yes it is now ancient history - the useful definition of which in AFL is - last year..or last month or whatever the agenda is for whoever is pushing a line...

I don't have a problem with 'trading' players - don't get me wrong , in fact I have changed my stance on the whole issue under pressure of rational analysis and with reference to how the best in the business - Hawthorn went about rebuilding their list and continue to do so...

What I ant to see is aggressive trading for the longer term benefit of the Club - with a clear logic and rationale behind it.

What I will call out anytime anyone wants to be a revisionist / apologist for Betts/Garlett/Waite/Laidler Yarran...Henderson...Menzel...etc etc in exchange for

Thomas/Jones/Tutt/Jacksh and Whiley ...

is what madness was that? I mean seriously what madness was that?

now we have to have a sense of humour otherwise hit the despair button hard... given we are a desperate for a forward line and some genuine class around the place...

meanwhile - we still carry the biggest problem(s) - no one capable of playing alongside CrippJudd - same old same old fancy pantses getting paid the most and delivering the least.

Yarran, Henderson, Menzel for Mckay, Cunningham, Plowman, kerridge et al. is smart trading. The second lot of names under a different coach and recruiting manager not so much.. The club has been preaching that it will not be a quick fix and it won't be. Plenty of disappointing nights like last Saturday to come.

 

[JustaBattler]

Yarran, Henderson, Menzel for Mckay, Cunningham, Plowman, kerridge et al. is smart trading. The second lot of names under a different coach and recruiting manager not so much.. The club has been preaching that it will not be a quick fix and it won't be. Plenty of disappointing nights like last Saturday to come.

Too right - except I am not going to lose one iota of sleep or get angry about what the club is trying to do - we are on the right path. It is all uphill from here- but so be it don't care about short term results, as long as the Club gets rid of the useless and keeps on investing in those who care and put in.

Supporters deserve to be afforded the respect of being able to be proud of the direction of the club - and in 2016 I m for the first time in years and years.

 

[DaVillaBlues]

Dunno what anyone else thinks, but the Yarran trade is looking like a treat for us, helped us package it with another second rounder we sent to the Dogs that got us Charlie Curnow

The tide is turning friends, time and patience is required. The SOS blueprint has given me hope for the first time in years.

Just on Laidler, I'm starting to see traits of petulant and D/H on field behaviour this season and I have no problems at all with Mick moving him on, although MM made many mistakes, many of the players he moved on had selfish and/or poor on and off field behaviour that contributed to our poor culture at our clubs for many years.

 

[HARKER]

Dunno what anyone else thinks, but the Yarran trade is looking like a treat for us, helped us package it with another second rounder we sent to the Dogs that got us Charlie Curnow

Not that it matters but we got Cuningham with the #19 we got for Yarran.
Of course we would have sooner got Richmonds #12 but I feel we may have just take Cuningham with that pick anyway......I'd love to know.

Interesting that the 3 Rising Sun nominees so far this year have all come from last years draft.
Wouldn't surprise should that trend continue, with Mills, Schache, Milera and Curnow all looking capable of being nominated.

 

[DaVillaBlues]

Not that it matters but we got Cuningham with the #19 we got for Yarran.
Of course we would have sooner got Richmonds #12 but I feel we may have just take Cuningham with that pick anyway......I'd love to know.

Interesting that the 3 Rising Sun nominees so far this year have all come from last years draft.
Wouldn't surprise should that trend continue, with Mills, Schache, Milera and Curnow all looking capable of being nominated.

Milera will be the next one nominated I think, he was a real eye turner against the Tigers.

Early days I know, but the top end talent of last year's draft is looking as impressive as any of the past 5-6 drafts.

Ah Chee from The Suns is another cracker

 

[HARKER]

Imagine getting all the even numbers in the top 10 of the draft, only for it to net a 2009 type result.

#2=Trengove #4=Morabito #6=Rohan #8=Butcher #10=Melksham

 

[mediumsizered]

Eddie Betts was always a gun at Carlton especially under Ratten, but MM didnt value him or any of the indigenous players and forced him and Garlett out the door. I am not sure if MM was a racist or was still burnt by Leon Davis big game failures but had a belief that all indigenous players went missing when it got tough.

If you dont believe me, have a look at Collingwoods list.. Only indigenous player on it is Travis Varcoe, none have been drafted to Collingwood for a very long time and it is a theory that i am sure has been passed onto Buckley and probably Maguire. We did draft Clem Smith under Malthouse but i reckon recruiting had been taken out of his hands by then.

The sad part for me is that you must actually believe this to have posted it.

 

[DaVillaBlues]

It was flat out TRAITEROUS and led to a domino effect of exits - just the stupidest most disgustingly amateurish period we have had to suffer for the last 20 years- and that is saying something!

Gerrard Whately lost the plot during the EssendONE saga- he is now a sensible sounding nice enough Geelong supporting lazy short cutting researcher commentator because anything sensible wasted with fat slobbo sitting next to him buffoon - the fact that there is a different show now running before him and fatso- is testament to teh fact that it has become a show about these two 'personalities' - haven't watched these two morans for three years now - since EssenDONE saga and Whateley's biased BS.

WOwee do i sound angry pilled up or what?

The Eddie departure is nowhere near as damaging to the footy club as recruiting Stephen O'Reily, and the subsequent fallout from the Salary Cap scandal, that is what has set us back DECADES.

And honestly, the night that the club was going to sack Denis Pagan,and have Barry Mitchell interview for the job, only for The AFL or someone else to step in, was far more amateurish and embarrassing then anything Mick did at the club.

And in my opinion, Eddie was never as good with us, as he is with Adelaide. Its sad, but life goes on.

 

[Iamcarlton]

Never mind the first round busts like Lucas Russell Watson bootsma Livingston and trading away first Rd picks on McLean and jaksch whiley and others that aren't coming to mind at present .

 

[El Topo]

Someone on this board described the club when Ratts was sacked as an already sinking ship, which MM proceeded to set on fire. Have yet to read a better description of the situation. The Betts departure was disastrous but the die was already cast.

Love that we've all come around and stopped making excuses for the most overrated group of senior players in Carlton history. Murph/Gibbs may still form the core of the midfield but leadership (and by extension, ownership) of the club needs to be shifted ASAP to the younger guys so that the New Carlton is moulded in their image. Make Docherty captain at years' end and trade Gibbs or Kreuz if someone is mad enough to offer a good pick. No more clinging to past mistakes!

 

[MrsEddieBetts]

It's time to turn and face the strange.

 

[HBF]

Yarran, Henderson, Menzel for Mckay, Cunningham, Plowman, kerridge et al. is smart trading. The second lot of names under a different coach and recruiting manager not so much.. The club has been preaching that it will not be a quick fix and it won't be. Plenty of disappointing nights like last Saturday to come.

I'd like to see Kerridge polish his skills a little. As someone else has mentioned, he does seem to rush his disposals at times, which can lead to turnovers. But I agree when you see the trade like that we have come out in front (at the moment).

 

[Doro]

I'd like to see Kerridge polish his skills a little. As someone else has mentioned, he does seem to rush his disposals at times, which can lead to turnovers. But I agree when you see the trade like that we have come out in front (at the moment).

Agreed, a bit sloppy below the knees as well. He wasn't alone there the other night though. Menzel hasn't got on the park for yet, so we're well in front at the moment. Time will tell.

 

[HBF]

Agreed, a bit sloppy below the knees as well. He wasn't alone there the other night though. Menzel hasn't got on the park for yet, so we're well in front at the moment. Time will tell.

He's already an updrage on Bell which is a good thing. Hopefully our development coaches are working with him to iron out these issues. If he can clean this part of his game up he could become quite a good player.

 

[DaVillaBlues]

Nathan Buckley continues to escape media grilling from dismantling a premiership side and the Pies rebuild is nowhere near as rosy as people say. That ain't a top 8 list he is working with, and already The Aish trade is looking like a blunder (well the Treloar one certainly is)

Ben Kennedy and Seedsman are going well at their new clubs, and I just think the evidence grows that Buckley can't develop/manage young players.

Admittedly they had bad luck with Schranberg, but the fact another top pick in Freeman also bailed on The Pies is significant.

Another year or two of solid drafting and trading, and we will have a better list than the Pies.

Their list is mouldy and has plenty of holes in it, like Cheddar Cheese.

Backing the erratic Dees to knock them off again on Sunday.

 

[HBF]

Probably because he's just signed a 1 year extension DVB. I still think he deserves to be put under the microscope, but Collingwood aren't exactly going to move him on.

 

[Doro]

He's already an updrage on Bell which is a good thing. Hopefully our development coaches are working with him to iron out these issues. If he can clean this part of his game up he could become quite a good player.

He was good against the Tiges. He struggled the last 2 like the rest of the side.