List Mgmt. 2016 Trade, Draft and free agency news (no hypothetical trades)

[cryptor]

Don't need to tell me that Rough is more than just a forward. However, we aren't going to find a tall forward who can do what Rough can do in this post-season - so that's a moot point. What we need is a tall forward who is a marking threat. We need someone who can take the defensive focus off of TOB and Sicily. As it stands - we are bombing it in with the hope of a contested mark. This strategy has never served us well in the past, and it's our defence that is leading our charge this year. Now, Burton could change this - but that's a lot to ask of a kid. Add a genuine monster KPF and you let Sicily off the leash and Gunston and Breust can play more of their 2013-15 style. Again also, if we are to bring in some young mids via trade - we may lose Schoey and/or TOB - so our forward depth would get hammered.

I'm not saying we should throw big money or a long term deal his way. However, if Cloke was interested to make a sacrifice and come on board, which he likely won't, but if he was then you need to take the emotional blinkers off and imagine what he could deliver if he's willing to choke on his ego a bit and play for success as opposed to playing for money. People thought Lake was cooked when he came to us - but he embraced Hawthorn, got himself fit and played 3 fantastic seasons. If Cloke wanted to come here and was willing to do the hard yards - then I certainly wouldn't be disgusted by it like some here would.

Another good example was Dew. Recruited after a year out of the game, over weight and seemingly cooked. I can't recall the exact sentiment on here following that pick (as I wasn't registered until mid 08) in the draft but I bet plenty here couldn't stomach that pick.

There's a far bigger picture than simply "recruit only the best and youngest talent".

 

[Brishawk]

Another good example was Dew. Recruited after a year out of the game, over weight and seemingly cooked. I can't recall the exact sentiment on here following that pick (as I wasn't registered until mid 08) in the draft but I bet plenty here couldn't stomach that pick.

There's a far bigger picture than simply "recruit only the best and youngest talent".

It worked out well but if not for that one game dew was not exactly a resounding success. Solid 2008 but was cooked the following season. If we had not of won 2008
People would still be complaining about his recruitment now given we likely were taking zaharachis with that pick. What an incredible gamble he was that paid off big time!

 

[Noneedforaname]

LET ME MAKE THIS CLEAR, I DON'T WANT HIM....

Story on AFL website that says Ballantyne wants out of Freo as well.

Rats.... ship..... sinking....

Interesting trade time with the super coach....

If they are a sinking ship, I hope Ross does the right thing and goes down with it.

And we do the right thing by reaching out to Fyfe with a lifeline.

Ballantyne can get right out of the west by going to GWS for the McLobb combo.

Oh what a mess. Wouldnt hurt to hear some commentary come outta the Saints to really sink the slipper into Ross.

 

[cryptor]

It worked out well but if not for that one game dew was not exactly a resounding success. Solid 2008 but was cooked the following season. If we had not of won 2008
People would still be complaining about his recruitment now given we likely were taking zaharachis with that pick. What an incredible gamble he was that paid off big time!

What Dew brought wasn't just a 10 minute beast mode GF performance. He brought the wisdom of a player who had been there and won a flag before. I recall reading something around 2008 from Clarko or Fagan saying that they believed they needed to add some GF winning experience. Someone who could guide our players through the process. Cloke would be here to serve a purpose (providing the club identifies that he can do that), not to be a certain best 22 player for the next 3 years.

Dew was a risky pick, but probably only seems as risky because Zaharakis turned out to be a pretty good pick himself. If he'd been crap and Dew failed it wouldn't have been too bad.

 

[Brishawk]

What Dew brought wasn't just a 10 minute beast mode GF performance. He brought the wisdom of a player who had been there and won a flag before. I recall reading something around 2008 from Clarko or Fagan saying that they believed they needed to add some GF winning experience. Someone who could guide our players through the process. Cloke would be here to serve a purpose (providing the club identifies that he can do that), not to be a certain best 22 player for the next 3 years.

Dew was a risky pick, but probably only seems as risky because Zaharakis turned out to be a pretty good pick himself. If he'd been crap and Dew failed it wouldn't have been too bad.

What I meant with Dew is, had we not won the grand final, especially if we had not even made the grand final, his on field contributions were not that great and ultimately that is how he would be judged. That 10 mins is how he is judged now.

I'm not against Cloke if they think they can improve his mobility. If his legs are cooked then no point. He just doesn't seem to run as much anymore which was a big strength of his.

 

[tige19]

Seriously man, Cloke is a single dimensional footballer, he is cooked. His biggest asset in his prime was his speed and running ability, that has diminished, he is turtle like now. Cloke does not run hard leading patterns, he puts his hand up for a wrestle. He is not worth the shorts he wears, he doesn't fit what Clarko looks for in a footballer, surely we know this right?

 

[Brishawk]

Seriously man, Cloke is a single dimensional footballer, he is cooked. His biggest asset in his prime was his speed and running ability, that has diminished, he is turtle like now. Cloke does not run hard leading patterns, he puts his hand up for a wrestle. He is not worth the shorts he wears, he doesn't fit what Clarko looks for in a footballer, surely we know this right?

But is that because his legs are cooked or because he is too heavy and it takes its toll on him so he can't run as much, especially at the back end of the season?

 

[tige19]

But is that because his legs are cooked or because he is too heavy and it takes its toll on him so he can't run as much, especially at the back end of the season?

Buddy is the same age and weight, marginally taller yet he runs on top of the ground and is rarerly injured. I'd say Clokes athleticism has dropped so significantly that he is almost a non-factor at the elite level.

Perhaps and maybe in the most unlikely situation we have a stab and strip 10kgs off him to try and rejuvenate his body, that could be of some benefit. But, as I said I think he is finished, also the fact the screws up half his chances at goal make the choice to bypass him even more solidified.

 

[Ned Ryerson]

Seriously man, Cloke is a single dimensional footballer, he is cooked. His biggest asset in his prime was his speed and running ability, that has diminished, he is turtle like now. Cloke does not run hard leading patterns, he puts his hand up for a wrestle. He is not worth the shorts he wears, he doesn't fit what Clarko looks for in a footballer, surely we know this right?

I'd agree with you if it weren't for people saying the exact same things about Lake in 2012. If our fitness team thought they could work their magic, then I wouldn't be opposed.

 

[tige19]

I'd agree with you if it weren't for people saying the exact same things about Lake in 2012. If our fitness team thought they could work their magic, then I wouldn't be opposed.

Difference is as a defender you can cover for your speed and agility issues by cutting angles, reading the play and having 3rd man up help, lake got all of that and more. As a forward you don't have such help, it's all on you. Cloke isn't going to magically turn around his athleticism to his heyday.

 

[cryptor]

What I meant with Dew is, had we not won the grand final, especially if we had not even made the grand final, his on field contributions were not that great and ultimately that is how he would be judged. That 10 mins is how he is judged now.

I'm not against Cloke if they think they can improve his mobility. If his legs are cooked then no point. He just doesn't seem to run as much anymore which was a big strength of his.

I got what you meant, and I agree, wouldn't have been judged favourably by us on the outer. Was just pointing out that his purpose to Clarko and the team extended beyond what he did on the field. Without that article explaining the intent we'd probably never have known that was part of the grand plan.

 

[Ned Ryerson]

Difference is as a defender you can cover for your speed and agility issues by cutting angles, reading the play and having 3rd man up help, lake got all of that and more. As a forward you don't have such help, it's all on you. Cloke isn't going to magically turn around his athleticism to his heyday.

Fair call. I just think we need a stop-gap for a year and can't think of many other options. If Pav was maybe 2 years younger it would have been fun to give him a farewell year at a side that could actually contend for a flag. And watch the implosion on the Freo board if he came to us.

 

[TyHawk]

Cloke has no footy smarts to make up for his weaknesses.

 

[Roughies Boys]

We are getting pick 3. For sure and certain. GWS can take pick 3 from our cold dead hands...or give up Lobb or whatever

Lol, we aren't.

 

[Crankyhawk]

We aren't the only club in this situation. Yes, we do have a proven track record. On the other hand, Fyfe might see a decline, whereas for some others, like Saints, Dogs, Dees, the only way is up. He isn't 30 with only 1 more shot at success. He has 7-8 years left in him.

Past performances aren't an indicator of future success.

Or past performances indicate a culture of a club...

 

[seysearles]

Afl website reporting that Lobb may want out of GWS and back home to WA at seasons end.

I could think of worse things than having Lobbe on our list. He is a gun. I think he is about the right swap for Hill also. Problem is that he wants to go back to WA.

 

[Mitchell54]

I could think of worse things than having Lobbe on our list. He is a gun. I think he is about the right swap for Hill also. Problem is that he wants to go back to WA.

Just might be a slight problem. We have zero chance. If he's not going to WA, he's staying at GWS

 

[Always]

Hi guys, first time, long time.

The more I read about Big Rough, the more I appreciate the enormous challenge he has in front of him. No doubts everyone associated with the club and the game wants nothing more than to see the big fella healthy again, regardless of what that means in terms of playing footy.

As a club, HFC will, and should always stand by him to give him all the support and time he needs to focus on treatment/recovery. Considering that, I was hoping to hear the boards thoughts on the pros/cons/merit/possibility of the following:

1) convert Rough's playing contract, ($ and duration), into a coaching one, (some footy dept tax may be payable)
2) allow Rough to focus solely on treatment with an open door to do as much or as little at the club as he feels up to
3) commit to Rough that if/when he is able to return playing, the club gives him a spot on the list at market rate salary
4) in the meantime HFC reallocates the salary cap and list spot to high end talent

Keen to hear thoughts

 

[cryptor]

Hi guys, first time, long time.

The more I read about Big Rough, the more I appreciate the enormous challenge he has in front of him. No doubts everyone associated with the club and the game wants nothing more than to see the big fella healthy again, regardless of what that means in terms of playing footy.

As a club, HFC will, and should always stand by him to give him all the support and time he needs to focus on treatment/recovery. Considering that, I was hoping to hear the boards thoughts on the pros/cons/merit/possibility of the following:

1) convert Rough's playing contract, ($ and duration), into a coaching one, (some footy dept tax may be payable)
2) allow Rough to focus solely on treatment with an open door to do as much or as little at the club as he feels up to
3) commit to Rough that if/when he is able to return playing, the club gives him a spot on the list at market rate salary
4) in the meantime HFC reallocates the salary cap and list spot to high end talent

Keen to hear thoughts

Welcome. The club is committed to keeping things as normal as possible for Roughy. Transferring his contract over into a coaching one so that we can replace the cap space with another player isn't normal and rightly or wrongly it sends the message that we doubt he'll make it to playing.

Yeah it sucks from a playing perspective that we've got a star sized salary cap hole for 2 years but it would suck a hell of a lot more to have cancer and the real possibility of a worst case scenario on the horizon.

I have no doubt the club is doing the right thing, doing what is completely in Roughy's best interests. No doubt the humanitarian approach will reflect well on the club as other players see they are considered people and not what ever number you could assign to them (draft, salary, goals, etc)

 

[Great 2008]

Don't need to tell me that Rough is more than just a forward. However, we aren't going to find a tall forward who can do what Rough can do in this post-season - so that's a moot point. What we need is a tall forward who is a marking threat. We need someone who can take the defensive focus off of TOB and Sicily. As it stands - we are bombing it in with the hope of a contested mark. This strategy has never served us well in the past, and it's our defence that is leading our charge this year. Now, Burton could change this - but that's a lot to ask of a kid. Add a genuine monster KPF and you let Sicily off the leash and Gunston and Breust can play more of their 2013-15 style. Again also, if we are to bring in some young mids via trade - we may lose Schoey and/or TOB - so our forward depth would get hammered.

I'm not saying we should throw big money or a long term deal his way. However, if Cloke was interested to make a sacrifice and come on board, which he likely won't, but if he was then you need to take the emotional blinkers off and imagine what he could deliver if he's willing to choke on his ego a bit and play for success as opposed to playing for money. People thought Lake was cooked when he came to us - but he embraced Hawthorn, got himself fit and played 3 fantastic seasons. If Cloke wanted to come here and was willing to do the hard yards - then I certainly wouldn't be disgusted by it like some here would.

Well summed up 89A. Cloke could play a hybrid Hale/Rough stay at home froward role possibly. Just watched the roos game and Firrito/Tarrant/Hansen/Goldstiein all took a lot of intercept marks from long bombs from Hawks kicks that were under pressure (and some that were not).

Cloke would at least go some way towards halving these contests and give Poppy, Cyril and Breust someone to crumb off which they lack atm and are all very good at. The problem is he lacks any type of versatility at all which would probably stamp his books as far as Clarko is concerned.

 

[Fluro Boots]

I don't think the long bomb plan will last long and i certainly wouldn't draft or trade specifically to suit it. It's just using what we have at the moment. All teams are well prepared for that kick. Genuine forwards only please. those that are good marks or good on the ground, preferably both and proper forward smarts.

 

[Steven Tyler]

Jaeger O’Meara’s future: Who is in the race for the uncontracted Gold Coast Suns midfielder

• by JAKE NIALL
• ON the weekend of Round 21, as Jaeger O’Meara recuperates from his latest surgical procedure, the Gold Coast Suns still have no idea whether he will be with them next year.

O’Meara’s situation is highly unusual. We do not know a) whether he will remain with the Suns, or b) the probable destination if he’s leaving, though it’s likely he’ll pick a Melbourne club if he goes.

Typically, the club knows if the gun player is going, long before this stage of the season. Geelong and Hawthorn knew they were losing Gary Ablett and Buddy Franklin, the Crows suspected Paddy Dangerfield was Geelong-bound. It was obvious to all that James Frawley had given up on Melbourne.

But O’Meara is one of the mysteries of 2016, his intentions as hard to read as the novels of James Joyce. As one club list manager observed, when a player hasn’t signed by this stage — and hasn’t declared his hand — the assumption is usually that he’s gone.

He has not even hinted to the Suns about what he’ll do, and the most of their rivals remain equally clueless. I say “most of” because it’s possible that one club has allocated salary cap room, a draft pick or two and will swoop on Jaeger as soon as the season’s done.

While there are several known unknowns with O’Meara, there are some things that we do know. One is that the Suns have made him a two-year offer, worth at least $700,000 per season. Another is that he does not want to return home to Perth.

We know that his girlfriend — clearly an important consideration — lives in Melbourne, and the near-universal view is that he will play for a Melbourne club if he decides to exit the Suns. The Swans, who have a gift for covert recruiting raids, insist that they’re no chance of landing O’Meara.

While one would think that every Melbourne club would want a young midfielder of such high calibre, the number of clubs which can acquire him can be whittled down when you take into account their draft and salary cap position and the other players they’ve targeted (or are committed to).

Let’s confine the field to Melbourne clubs, which also precludes Geelong. Of those nine teams, a few can be scratched from the starting gate.

Richmond is committed to Jaeger’s teammate, Dion Prestia, whom the Suns know is out the door, and it can’t sign both. So remove the Tigers from the (potential) race.

Collingwood does not have a first-round pick this year, nor does Melbourne, those clubs having traded future first rounders last year. I’d be surprised, from what can be gleaned from those clubs, if either was in the O’Meara hunt.

Carlton is interested in O’Meara, but is also circling Greater Western Sydney’s Caleb Marchbank, the most coveted uncontracted Giant. The Blues would be reluctant to give up what’s now Pick 4 for O’Meara, which will be less than Gold Coast’s asking price. The Blues, who can’t be completely ruled out, shape as a long shot.

The Bulldogs are pursuing Michael Hurley and, regardless of whether they land him, their need is for key position stock. Scratch the Dogs.

Essendon is interested, but I doubt the Bombers can pay the asking price, given their outlays to Cale Hooker, Dyson Heppell et al (though Hurley leaving would change that). The Suns don’t think the Bombers are a serious bidder, albeit the Dons have the first pick in the pre-season draft and can be a fallback option.

Remove Richmond, Collingwood, Carlton, Melbourne, the Bulldogs and for argument’s sake Essendon. That narrows the field to three Melbourne clubs: Hawthorn, St Kilda and North Melbourne.

The Saints have confirmed that they are interested.

The Hawks, who are more coy, are an attractive proposition and can clear out the salary cap room by backloading a contract offer (knowing that highly paid veterans retire in 2017). But it is difficult to see how they could snare O’Meara and Sydney’s Tom Mitchell (intentions also unclear), even if Brad Hill’s exit provides some draft return and cap relief.

“If they can, they’re geniuses,” said the list manager.

Then there’s the Kangaroos, which could also find the money for O’Meara, who also fits its needs. The Roos have some interest, but it’s unclear (at least to this journalist) how keen they are or if that interest is reciprocated.

All clubs have been cautious about O’Meara due to the doubt about his knee and the fact that he has not played at AFL senior level since 2014. A patella tendon injury that has kept a young player out for that long is a major concern, and no bidder can offer him a significant contract without a very rigorous medical examination.

During the season, all the relevant clubs — including the Suns — took the view that they wanted to see him return to the field and play before progressing any contract offers. Gold Coast has been told O’Meara wasn’t even fielding offers.

“When you’ve eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth,” said fiction’s best known detective Sherlock Holmes.

In O’Meara’s case, we can eliminate the impossible and most of the improbable and we’re still left without a definitive answer

 

[HawksILove]

We were looking at the same thing, minutes apart, but I put mine on another thread

 

[Steven Tyler]

Anyone else heard the rumour about Jason Dunstall and his talk with JOM?

 

[HawksILove]

What rumour was that? better be good