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Richmond to win a final in 2017

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Abomination said:
Oh Hardwick, geez. I like you but you're really digging your own grave here.

Reminds me of the way their football department decided that members wouldn't accept another rebuild, so decided to topup with B-graders with no long-term strategy.

It's going to crash and burn for Richmond sooner rather than later, especially if they're stupid enough to give up pick 5/6 for Prestia (and they will).
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We won't give up a pick that high for Prestia, the club is not that silly. Please don't talk utter trash, and claim that it is a given.
 
Half Forward said:
We won't give up a pick that high for Prestia, the club is not that silly. Please don't talk utter trash, and claim that it is a given.
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How are you going to get another pick inside 10 then? You're kidding yourself if you think Gold Coast will accept less for one of their best midfielders.

Whether you like it or not, when you poach players from other clubs you pay overs both in salary and in draft currency. You don't just poach players for "what they're worth," especially when it's one of that team's best players.
 
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Hmm. First of all, I think that North Melbourne, West Coast and even Hawthorn's spots are vulnerable next year.

If as many as 3 do lodge out of the 8 (doesn't have to be the three I mentioned), then I think Melbourne and St Kilda will at least be 2 out of the 3 replacers. That leaves, in my opinion, one of Port Adelaide, Richmond, Collingwood, Gold Coast and Essendon to make it.

- Collingwood because they had injuries and when they were on fire they really played well. Could improve.

- Port Adelaide because Ryder could provide them with a genuine ruck option, which could be their catalyst to making finals. But, I just don't know because they haven't made finals in two years now and no longer sure they are a Ryder away from becoming a top 8 side again.

- Essendon because their youth have been fast-tracked in their development this year IMO and with an easy draw they could surprise.

- Gold Coast because they had a huge issue with injuries this year. This could rectify next year and they could improve in performance greatly. If it continues though, they could struggle again. If they lose a lot of players to other teams, they could also struggle with that.

- Richmond because this could be a down year. Richmond is usually a side that doesn't suffer a lot of injuries to their star players so this year has been a relatively injury-riddled year to previous years. If they change their gameplan, recruit star players and their youth can take the next step, then yeah, they could make finals. They could fall as far as the bottom two with the way they are tracking though.

So, if there are indeed around 3 changes to the current top 8, then I can see Richmond making finals again over the others if things go their way over the offseason and next year. They have the most recent finals experience out of those 5 listed above I guess.

If there is only 1 or 2 changes, then I don't think they'll make it over Melbourne and St Kilda. If they do make finals though, then they are only one win away from making a semi final. It has proved too much to achieve in the past 4 years, but I guess things can change dramatically over 12 months.

All in all, I don't think it is a delusional thing that Hardwick said. Optimistic? Yes. Overly optimistic? Maybe. Delusional? No. It isn't like Hardwick is planning to undergo a full-on rebuild and still expect to win a final in 2017. He is planning to retain his top end players that got him to finals for 3 years in a row so it is possible with a potentially easier draw to make finals and a possible improvement to the lower end talent that Richmond win one next year.
 
Abomination said:
How are you going to get another pick inside 10 then? You're kidding yourself if you think Gold Coast will accept less for one of their best midfielders.

Whether you like it or not, when you poach players from other clubs you pay overs both in salary and in draft currency. You don't just poach players for "what they're worth," especially when it's one of that team's best players.
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He is not worth a top 10 pick with his injury concerns of the last two years, we will have to trade to get picks in, or we give our first rounder for Prestia and get a pick back our way. We will certainly not be trading pick 6 alone for Prestia.
 
Half Forward said:
He is not worth a top 10 pick with his injury concerns of the last two years, we will have to trade to get picks in, or we give our first rounder for Prestia and get a pick back our way. We will certainly not be trading pick 6 alone for Prestia.
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You're kidding yourself if you think Gold Coast will give him up for a late first-rounder because of "injury concerns." That isn't how trades work; you trade for a player's potential and Prestia has proven potential in spades when fit.

Treloar (and a late 2nd rounder) has cost Collingwood two pick 7's. Jed Anderson only played 10 games with the Hawks but cost North pick 15 and a swap of third rounders. When you poach players from other clubs that they want to retain, you pay overs for the privilege.
 
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Optimistic outlook. The club would need to recruit better in one season than it's done in the past two (currently without a second-rounder in the draft), and Hardwick needs to change the way he coaches (and make it work).

We've slipped years behind the Dogs, a fair way behind Melbourne, behind Port and Collingwood and are definitely ahead of only Freo, Brisbane and Carlton in development. St.Kilda, Gold Coast and Essendon are hard to get a bead on.

People at the club have said a lot of things this year. I've stopped taking them seriously for now. More doing, less talking.
 
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bauschy88 said:
Just watching 'On the couch' now & Damien Hardwick was asked when he expects Richmond to be back, winning a final. He unequivocally stated they will win a final in 2017. Realistic or delusional?
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If they played this season with the pressure and intent that they did against Geelong for the first three quarters they wouldn't have had such a shambolic 2016, and with this being a year where teams are taking lots of points off each other they could have pushed 4th, 5th or 6th with a half decent side.

Instead they shit the bed, and if they want finals next season they need to trade out a lot of trash, try and pick up some decent stock be it trades or free agency and find a better gameplan.
 
Abomination said:
You're kidding yourself if you think Gold Coast will give him up for a late first-rounder because of "injury concerns." That isn't how trades work; you trade for a player's potential and Prestia has proven potential in spades when fit.

Treloar (and a late second rounder) cost Collingwood two first rounders. Jed Anderson only played 10 games with the Hawks but cost North pick 15 and a swap of third rounders. When you poach players from other clubs that they want to retain, you pay overs for the privilege.
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I'm realistic, you don't trade high quality picks for players with many question marks, we surley learnt that lesson last season wasting a ****ing pick on Yarran. We will go to the draft with pick 6, Prestia won't be a Tiger.
 

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10571z said:
I would say

Pies, Saints, Gold Coast, Port, Essendon, Melbourne, Richmond would all fancy their chances to get into the 8 next year. So far i would say North would be the most likely to drop out. I really think they should worry about making them let alone winning one. I would have Saints and Melbourne as the most likely.
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Don't even worry about making finals, worry about the fundamentals first like getting the playing list into some decent order, play the young players to see who can take the club forward.

I couldn't give a **** about finals next year. Priorities.
 
Hardwick doesn't have to come out and say "we'll be playing finals next year". It isn't necessary. Many coaches say the ladder will look after itself, which it will.

Hardwick insists on making these lofty statements and he's been made to look foolish on the back of them this season. Perhaps he feels he needs to pander to the supporter base, but it isn't doing him or the team any favours in terms of lessening the pressure placed upon them.
 
10571z said:
I would say

Pies, Saints, Gold Coast, Port, Essendon, Melbourne, Richmond would all fancy their chances to get into the 8 next year. So far i would say North would be the most likely to drop out. I really think they should worry about making them let alone winning one. I would have Saints and Melbourne as the most likely.
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Pies - 50/50
Saints - should do but still prone to some horror games, especially interstate, might miss
Gold Coast - a lot needs to go right
Port - doubt it, maybe 40/60 if they pull their finger out
Essendon - no chance
Melbourne - should make finals, disappointing if they don't
Richmond - 50/50
 

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If they essentially bring the same list to 2017 + a few draftees and - a few delistings then I don't believe they will make finals. If they actually manage to lure a gun player without losing anyone critical then i'd give them a shot.

I was one who had Richmond firmly in my 8 during the preseason and have been quite surprised that they've struggled so much. Especially because they aren't relying on kids. Their best players are all proven and experienced (without being too old). In all honesty if you just looked at their age and experience demographic you would say they have just reached the time that they would be in their window so for it all to collapse like this is not a good sign.

Having Deledio fit would help them a fair bit because they never play that well without him. I dunno i'm just not filled with confidence when it comes to Richmond - I guess its because I'm just not sure where the improvement is going to come from. Its not that they don't have any good young players that will improve with another year but does it compare to the list of players from teams that are also competing for that spot? I have to say no. What they really need to move up the ladder is for their average experienced players to become better. You'd have to say that's pretty unlikely - for every player that improves substantially in the middle of their career there's probably another 4 that don't.

Also I would say that all of Melbourne (have the talent just need 1+ year), St.Kilda (have the talent albeit inconsistency an issue + Carlisle back), Port Adelaide (will get Ryder back + not that far off) and Gold Coast (Their best midfielders not being injured) are probably way more likely to move up ahead of them. No real idea what will happen with teams like Collingwood and Essendon but they'd be some chance to move up but have more question marks to resolve. If i was putting Richmond in a group it would be with Collingwood and Essendon. Then Brisbane and Carlton as 2 teams unlikely to make top 8.

My gut feeling says there will be 3-4 changes to the top 8 from 2016 as a combination of pressure from teams coming up and a few teams that will likely be on the decline. The only teams I am 100% confident should be in finals next year are Bulldogs, Adelaide and Sydney.
 
bauschy88 said:
Just watching 'On the couch' now & Damien Hardwick was asked when he expects Richmond to be back, winning a final. He unequivocally stated they will win a final in 2017. Realistic or delusional?
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He said that did he?

I find that a very silly statement coming from the coach of a club and one based on hope more than reality....and why just a final and not the Premiership?

If you're going to make things up Damian, just go all the way. Silly man.
 
telsor said:
Leaving Hardwick aside, every decent coach, at every club, in every grade of every sport will be pushing a positive message....Basically the top end of what peoples expectations might be.

Quite apart from the PR/job retention aspects of that, a major part of their job is to instill confidence and belief in the playing group, and you don't do that by saying "we suck and we're going backwards".
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Sell a positive message....YES.
Make things up?..............NO.

Tell me how Hardwick 'worked out' that his team will win a final.
What tools did he use to arrive to this conclusion?

Those sorts of statements come back to bite and bite hard. Be positive, confident, aggressive...........but don't lie.
 

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