Richmond to win a final in 2017

[Cynic]

To be honest if they do it'll probably be the result of picking up mature players and repeating the cycle of mediocrity.

 

[Hawker55]

I'd be surprised but not shocked if the Tigers made and won a final. Seems they'll keep Deledio and get Prestia. Rance, Martin, Riewoldt will still be top quality. A fit run with injuries and they still have enough quality to beat a lot of sides.

The real question is how do they win a flag and without turning over a lot of the list because I can't see where the depth of talent is coming from.

Jumping right back up the ladder will end up making it harder to find the tall forward, ruck depth, a couple of good running players, a 2nd/3rd tall defender etc. It can be done, Sydney manage to patch those kind of gaps ever year or two, but they have a sustained culture of development and trading.

This is the thing isn't it? They have top end talent and with a decent game plan that went to their strengths they should comfortably make Finals. But I can't see how they win a Premiership. So the question is, do you bite the bullet when you have trade currency and go hard, knowing you will slip out for a season or two, or meander along happy to make the second week of Finals and save your coaches job.

I don't envy Hardwick. It's why they should get a new coach in to be honest, he'll have the scope to go for the harsher rebuild option and do the unthinkable like trade Cotch etc. The only untouchable on that list should be Dusty and at a pinch Rance and everything else should be on the table in the hope of getting first round picks and getting it right.

 

[TiggerMan22]

To be honest if they do it'll probably be the result of picking up mature players and repeating the cycle of mediocrity.

No it will be because of Rioli, Markov, Short, Menadue, C.Ellis, Castagna, Lennon, Marcon etc
Those players will improve the bottom 6 of our 22 and some even move up to the middle tier, which has been one of our biggest problem.

 

[Cynic]

No it will be because of Rioli, Markov, Short, Menadue, C.Ellis, Castagna, Lennon, Marcon etc
Those players will improve the bottom 6 of our 22 and some even move up to the middle tier, which has been one of our biggest problem.

Baring a miracle that's not going to be enough to win you a final.

Every other club has young players that may improve.

 

[TiggerMan22]

In the end the core from 2013-2015 will still be there, in that period we consistently beat top teams, 2-1 v Hawks, 2-2 v Swans, 2-3 v Freo (2 losses being under 1 goal) so clearly the team can be good enough.
We lose Maric and replace him with Hampson who has been as good as 2015 Maric, so draw even there. Lose Chaplin but gain Astubry who has been better than 2015 Chaplin. Thats it really.
Young kids and recruits push up and improve our bottom and middle tiers.
Poor finals performances have been 75% by mental and 25% poor coaching. IMO easier to fix than lack of talent.

All comes down to gameplan and mindset. Will Hardwick move back to attacking footy? This year we missed Houli for half the year, Mcintosh for nearly the whole year, Yarran for the whole year and Markov/Short just started playing. Thats basically all our half back/line breaking ability, will make a huge difference when in and should allow us to move the ball waaaay faster and cleaner.

Could go well or it could be another disaster like this year and Hardwick gets sacked by round 8.

 

[Ron The Bear]

Rubbish - your 13th and haven't won a final in god knows how long - yet for some reason it will happen in 2017.

Desperate comment from a desperate coach clinging to his job. He sold hope all this year with - we will play finals. Now he is doing it for 2017.

I ain't buying what he is selling - ever again.

Tell you what though - the arse falls out of any club that beats us in a final. Be afraid!

 

[TiggerMan22]

Baring a miracle that's not going to be enough to win you a final.

Every other club has young players that may improve.

No but a change in game plan combined with the young players could.

 

[TiggerMan22]

Rubbish - your 13th and haven't won a final in god knows how long - yet for some reason it will happen in 2017.

Desperate comment from a desperate coach clinging to his job. He sold hope all this year with - we will play finals. Now he is doing it for 2017.

I ain't buying what he is selling - ever again.

Thats some good ****ing logic there. Something hasn't happened in a while? For some reason that means it won't happen soon? Use your brain, mate.

 

[MotleyLemon]

In the end the core from 2013-2015 will still be there, in that period we consistently beat top teams, 2-1 v Hawks, 2-2 v Swans, 2-3 v Freo (2 losses being under 1 goal) so clearly the team can be good enough.
We lose Maric and replace him with Hampson who has been as good as 2015 Maric, so draw even there. Lose Chaplin but gain Astubry who has been better than 2015 Chaplin. Thats it really.
Young kids and recruits push up and improve our bottom and middle tiers.
Poor finals performances have been 75% by mental and 25% poor coaching. IMO easier to fix than lack of talent.

All comes down to gameplan and mindset. Will Hardwick move back to attacking footy? This year we missed Houli for half the year, Mcintosh for nearly the whole year, Yarran for the whole year and Markov/Short just started playing. Thats basically all our half back/line breaking ability, will make a huge difference when in and should allow us to move the ball waaaay faster and cleaner.

Could go well or it could be another disaster like this year and Hardwick gets sacked by round 8.

So getting to the level of breaking even with teams that played/won finals, despite not winning a final yourself, is good enough?

I don't see it.

 

[TiggerMan22]

So getting to the level of breaking even with teams that played/won finals, despite not winning a final yourself, is good enough?

I don't see it.

Did I say that? Or did I say it shows we can be talented enough? Have a proper read next time.

 

[Ron The Bear]

To be honest if they do it'll probably be the result of picking up mature players and repeating the cycle of mediocrity.

We've admitted during the year that we overdid the recruiting of fringe players, so if we then go and pick up an over-the-hill fringe player (e.g. Cloke, as discussed on the radio this morning) I'll give it away. Very confident that we won't suddenly head in that direction.

Hearing from the media that Cloke would be "a good fit", while chasing 23yo Prestia is "the wrong call". Most of the commentary on Richmond is uninformed nonsense.

 

[happypieman7]

enough of hardwick and richmond ,who gives a shit

 

[juss]

We may, we may not, a lot to still play out.
One thing that shits me to no end though is the talk. Talk is cheap. Rather Hardwick shut his mouth and let actions talk for him, if we are good enough.

 

[00Stinger]

I suppose he has to say that to keep his job. But he is kidding himself, the players, the board and the fans if he really thinks it will happen

Sent from my SM-P555 using Tapatalk

 

[MotleyLemon]

Did I say that? Or did I say it shows we can be talented enough? Have a proper read next time.

I'm confused how that shows you are talented enough.

You were still unable to win a final, regardless of beating the top 4 sides "consistently" (not sure 6-6 is a "consistent" winning record, to be honest).

 

[JackFlash]

I actually like Damien Hardwick, but he is listening far too much to corporate galah Brendon Gale who is obviously feeding him corporate gobbledygook like "remain positive with the media at all times", in other words FFS don't tell the truth in any interview. Surely Hardwick cannot be seriously thinking the current Richmond list will take him to finals in 2017 without a problem? This is total delusional talk. Tigers fans deserve better than this crap, fair dinkum it almost makes Hilary sound totally legitimate and she's never told a lie before in her life! Both the Demons and Saints have flown past the Tigers this year, just exactly who will the Tigers displace ahead of them currently in 2017? They require a major rethinking of their list. Hardwick needs to tell whoever is getting in his ear down there at Punt road to bugger off and "let me coach". If that was his real belief then he should get the arse!

 

[steelebottom22]

there going to get prestia and throw back the rebuild they need by trading there 1st round pick they should trade deledio edwards and vickery and invest heavily in the draft for the next few seasons and maybe have a tilt at a premiership in a few years cotchin martin rance and riewoldt wont be that old in 2019 so i think they can come up roses

 

[TiggerMan22]

I'm confused how that shows you are talented enough.

You were still unable to win a final, regardless of beating the top 4 sides "consistently" (not sure 6-6 is a "consistent" winning record, to be honest).

Yeh you're right, somehow beating top teams consistently doesn't show they can be good enough.
I'm pretty sure that is a consistent winning record when you are talking about the top teams in the comp. You aren't going to win every game against them.
This is rough counting, may have miscounted but im sure its pretty accurate.
In the same period you had a 8-10 record against those 3.
Port are 6-9.
Crows 0-11.
North 5-8.
Eagles 3-10.
Dogs 1-8

So yeh. We have the highest strike rate against those 3 in a 3 year period. Clearly we can play some good footy at times.

 

[MotleyLemon]

Yeh you're right, somehow beating top teams consistently doesn't show they can be good enough.
I'm pretty sure that is a consistent winning record when you are talking about the top teams in the comp. You aren't going to win every game against them.
This is rough counting, may have miscounted but im sure its pretty accurate.
In the same period you had a 8-10 record against those 3.
Port are 6-9.
Crows 0-11.
North 5-8.
Eagles 3-10.
Dogs 1-8

So yeh. We have the highest strike rate against those 3 in a 3 year period. Clearly we can play some good footy at times.

Maybe it's clear that those 3 teams can play some bad footy at times?

Hanging your hat on regular season results from the last 3 years, when you failed to win a final against any side that even finished top 7, is pretty desperate.

Look below, Richmond are good for the occasional 4-9th finish, generally every 4 or 5 years, but otherwise, it's just mediocre.

2015 - 5th
2014 - 8th
2013 - 5th
2012 - 12th
2011 - 12th
2010 - 15th
2009 - 15th
2008 - 9th
2007 - 16th
2006 - 9th
2005 - 12th
2004 - 16th
2003 - 13th
2002 - 14th
2001 - 4th
2000 - 9th
1999 - 12th
1998 - 12th
1997 - 13th
1996 - 9th

That's consistency.

 

[Jade]

Well stranger things have happened.

I'd have to be wrong about the state of Richmonds list though.

 

[juss]

Well stranger things have happened.

I'd have to be wrong about the state of Richmonds list though.

We won't really know the state of the list yet, not sure whether they will trade off some players for picks or if they go the other way and try and bring in established talent.

 

[Jade]

We won't really know the state of the list yet, not sure whether they will trade off some players for picks or if they go the other way and try and bring in established talent.

It's been mentioned before, but I reckon you blokes have a serious conundrum on your hands.

The only players you have likely to attract the sort of currency to significantly boost your draft position you won't want to trade; you don't really seem to have that 'would warrant a second round pick' kind of player on your list to trade - unless you want to trade some decent young kids (list management suicide).

And if you bring in experienced talent, you'll likely have to sacrifice your draft position (Prestia springs to mind here).

Perhaps the club needs to acknowledge that this list won't get it there?

 

[MotleyLemon]

It's been mentioned before, but I reckon you blokes have a serious conundrum on your hands.

The only players you have likely to attract the sort of currency to significantly boost your draft position you won't want to trade; you don't really seem to have that 'would warrant a second round pick' kind of player on your list to trade - unless you want to trade some decent young kids (list management suicide).

And if you bring in experienced talent, you'll likely have to sacrifice your draft position (Prestia springs to mind here).

Perhaps the club needs to acknowledge that this list won't get it there?

This.

Richmond are missing their 2nd round pick this year aren't they?

They have said they don't want to trade Deledio/Martin/Rance/Riewoldt/Cotchin. Hard to see where they would get picks in. I imagine Vickery might fetch a late 2nd to the right team, and Brandon Ellis maybe an early 2nd/late first, but even then, it's hard to see draftees taken at that point playing 17 or 20 games respectively at the level of Vickery/Ellis in 2017.

So I guess the question then is, do they bring in a Cloke? Is there much point in losing an Ellis to get picks in to bring Cloke over?

 

[McRobie]

The club is a rabble, so much denial, just accept the list is cooked and rebuild ala Saints....

 

[juss]

It's been mentioned before, but I reckon you blokes have a serious conundrum on your hands.

The only players you have likely to attract the sort of currency to significantly boost your draft position you won't want to trade; you don't really seem to have that 'would warrant a second round pick' kind of player on your list to trade - unless you want to trade some decent young kids (list management suicide).

And if you bring in experienced talent, you'll likely have to sacrifice your draft position (Prestia springs to mind here).

Perhaps the club needs to acknowledge that this list won't get it there?

Well we should have the answer of which way they want to go in this year's trade period. Rance, Riewoldt and Martin are the only 3 I would have as untouchable. I'd listen to offers for any other player.