Bryce Gibbs staying at Carlton - Silvagni in the no blinking zone

[TheHunterCripps]

Anyone who mentions L**** should be carded. Enough.

 

[Arr0w]

It's a natural response to selective stats.

All I did was post the stats.

If people are passionate about our club, they need to start embracing this rebuild. SOS & Bolts have and we saw the results last year. They will continue to make the hard calls that some or most of us don't like, but it is warranted.

I find it strange that people are just dismissing Lyons, would they still do that if he was part of 2 1st rounders coming our way?

 

[SBYM]

Eg American politics - we are constantly told Donald Trump is an ogre. Yet where are the reports on Bill Clinton? On Hillary Clinton's foundation (50 million taken from the Saudi Arabia plus donations from Qatar), her role in Libya etc? No mainstream media is reporting on this. Something is fishy. Both are extremely distasteful candidates...but why are we fed only one piece of information?

Yes. No-one has ever mentioned Bill Clinton.

 

[Prem17]

Anyone who mentions L**** should be carded. Enough.

Are you putting a Lyon in the sand THC?
(Sorry, couldn't help myself.....) LOL

 

[I AM CARLTON]

Can't wait to receive those 2 first rounders from Adelaide!!!!

 

[Keyza]

Can't wait to receive those 2 first rounders from Adelaide!!!!

Hawthorn are going out to get the picks needed for the O"Meara trade so why cant Adelaide get off their backsides and trade out a good player for a 1st round pick from another club to give to us?

 

[La Dispute]

All I did was post the stats.

If people are passionate about our club, they need to start embracing this rebuild. SOS & Bolts have and we saw the results last year. They will continue to make the hard calls that some or most of us don't like, but it is warranted.

I find it strange that people are just dismissing Lyons, would they still do that if he was part of 2 1st rounders coming our way?

I think that is exactly what posters are arguing. No half-measures, no folding to external pressure, and growing the list in accordance with the players WE want. If SOS doesn't see a player as a long-term option, he is going to be dismissed; and this is exactly what has happened with Lyons.

He has highlighted guys like McGovern and Cameron as being guys who would be more sustainable choices. As it is, it is unlikely we'll be able to prize one of them.

I would be indifferent towards Lyons being packaged with 2 first rounders. He is capable depth, but he is unlikely to improve and he doesn't add much to the side as it is. We have guys like Curnow, Wright and Kerridge as our midfield foot soldiers.

 

[Smegger]

Yes. No-one has ever mentioned Bill Clinton.

....and we're not going to be AFC's ML.

 

[Arr0w]

I think that is exactly what posters are arguing. No half-measures, no folding to external pressure, and growing the list in accordance with the players WE want. If SOS doesn't see a player as a long-term option, he is going to be dismissed; and this is exactly what has happened with Lyons.

He has highlighted guys like McGovern and Cameron as being guys who would be more sustainable choices. As it is, it is unlikely we'll be able to prize one of them.

I would be indifferent towards Lyons being packaged with 2 first rounders. He is capable depth, but he is unlikely to improve and he doesn't add much to the side as it is. We have guys like Curnow, Wright and Kerridge as our midfield foot soldiers.

That's where people have got it wrong, SOS didn't dismiss Lyons, he dismissed the value of 13 + Lyons. But if it was 13 + 2017 2nd rounder + Lyon, the response could be different

If the likes of Curnow, Wright and Kerridge are getting regular games, Lyons would also get a game

 

[Smegger]

Hawthorn are going out to get the picks needed for the O"Meara trade so why cant Adelaide get off their backsides and trade out a good player for a 1st round pick from another club to give to us?

Because Hawks are ruthless and are willing to take risks as opposed to Ebenezer window shopping.

 

[footyfan1978]

Hawthorn are going out to get the picks needed for the O"Meara trade so why cant Adelaide get off their backsides and trade out a good player for a 1st round pick from another club to give to us?

Just not trying hard enough. If you want something good you got to be willing to give something up of worth to get it.
Adelaide basically needed to trade someone like a Brad Crouch or Lever to another club to get an early enough pick in their hands to satisfy our needs if they want Gibbs or even just one of those players with a later pick might be enough. Adelaide will not get a trade done here without some type of move akin to that taking place. Think Gibbs is staying and his management will know a trade unlikely as of Monday morning.

 

[La Dispute]

That's where people have got it wrong, SOS didn't dismiss Lyons, he dismissed the value of 13 + Lyons. But if it was 13 + 2017 2nd rounder + Lyon, the response could be different

If the likes of Curnow, Wright and Kerridge are getting regular games, Lyons would also get a game

Lyons isn't adding any value to that trade. We don't need him on our list.

The last point isn't a glowing endorsement. We don't need more foot soldiers in the midfield; we need players we can develop into guns. Lyons isn't getting better and will stagnate over time. I'd rather pump games into Cuningham and maximise his strengths. By this time next year we will have 3 or 4 other players added to that midfield rotation.

 

[DaVillaBlues]

I think there is a misconception amongst some that because we lose an A Grade player, we have to get an A Grader back.

Lyons and pick 13 is slight unders for Gibbs, but not the highway robbery some are making out, but if we can get another second rounder thrown in too, i'd take the deal, this whole negotiating from a position of strength stance is a load of cobbers imo,

Freeing up a sizeable chunk of the salary cap with Gibbs' departure is another fringe benefit.

 

[JustaBattler]

Adelaide lose nothing by not getting Gibbs- they have painted themselves as innocent parties - responding to a request from Gibbs.
Carlton have been placed in a very difficult position - a Club rebuilding and planning apparently taken by complete surprise by a vice Captain wanting a move for family reasons. The way things are set up- Carlton is wearing all the risk either in accepting a poor trade OR in keeping a senior player who has requested a trade.

Gibbs meanwhile is playing an outside half stepping game. Half a step to Adelaide - because of family reasons, and half a step towards Carlton - if a deal can't be brokered.

It doesn't paint him in a particularly good light - either way. He doesn't want to go to Adelaide - his partner wants him to. He doesn't want to stay and continue his leadership role- unless other peopel can't sort things out - ie other people failed.

Neither Bolton or SOS are fooled by any of this.

The best thing Adelaide can do is show some good faith and find another pick to add to 13. It is too much to expectr thier first from next year and too little to accept pick 13 and a discard who doesn't even wish to come to Carlton.

There will be long term acrimony between teh Clubs over this.

 

[Navara79]

I think there is a misconception amongst some that because we lose an A Grade player, we have to get an A Grader back.

Lyons and pick 13 is slight unders for Gibbs, but not the highway robbery some are making out, but if we can get another second rounder thrown in too, i'd take the deal, this whole negotiating from a position of strength stance is a load of cobbers imo,

Freeing up a sizeable chunk of the salary cap with Gibbs' departure is another fringe benefit.

How about we ask for 13 and their 2017 1st rd pick and then and then get Lyons to nominate us after that deal is done and we give them a 3rd round pick

 

[AB_Blue]

I think there is a misconception that trading out your second best mid in an already weak midfield without finding suitable replacements is a good idea

You want Cripps to request a trade home in 2 years cause he's sick of no help?

We don't need A graders yet but a couple of B's would be more than handy

 

[Arr0w]

Lyons isn't adding any value to that trade. We don't need him on our list.

The last point isn't a glowing endorsement. We don't need more foot soldiers in the midfield; we need players we can develop into guns. Lyons isn't getting better and will stagnate over time. I'd rather pump games into Cuningham and maximise his strengths. By this time next year we will have 3 or 4 other players added to that midfield rotation.

Who said he can't get better?

I agree with getting games into Cuningham

How can you say he doesn't add value if SOS would be satisfied with a 1st & 2nd round as the main portion of a deal? Perhaps you should add up the games of Graham, Thomas, Everitt & Lamb this year, he would play in front of those guys

 

[Azul]

a couple of overhead marks, some tackles and opportunistic goals in a forward line where nobody would be paying him any attention...

So it's pretty much 13. Plus any player they can get another club to take for salary cap reasons.

How I think it will go down is a stalemate until midday Thursday, when they'll add their 2017 second rounder (approx 34 if they make the prelim)

out: Gibbs, WB 3rd rounder (58), fifth rounder (81)
in: Lyons, 1st rounder, 2017 2nd rounder

But let's not get too attached to pick 13; it's otherwise known as Marchbank/Pickett.

 

[BrisbaneCFC]

Can't wait to receive those 2 first rounders from Adelaide!!!!

I think the way its going its likely to be 13 + a second rounder, this years or next years. I'm happy with either.

 

[La Dispute]

Who said he can't get better?

I agree with getting games into Cuningham

How can you say he doesn't add value if SOS would be satisfied with a 1st & 2nd round as the main portion of a deal? Perhaps you should add up the games of Graham, Thomas, Everitt & Lamb this year, he would play in front of those guys

Outlier, break-out year as a 24-year old. He might improve slightly and then regress. He isn't that good and he isn't worth trading into a team that already has a plethora of C-grade mids.

 

[Pafloyul]

Exactly.

This media attack has been a common thread. You know when you are only getting one piece of information in anything something is up.

Eg American politics - we are constantly told Donald Trump is an ogre. Yet where are the reports on Bill Clinton? On Hillary Clinton's foundation (50 million taken from the Saudi Arabia plus donations from Qatar), her role in Libya etc? No mainstream media is reporting on this. Something is fishy. Both are extremely distasteful candidates...but why are we fed only one piece of information?

Same principle with this Bryce Gibbs trade - every single media outlet says Carlton should be happy with the scraps at the table. No thanks. It is time to make a stand. Where are the other "media experts"? Does anyone else have anything else to say?

This club (Carlton) represents 160 plus years of meaning something to people. It has to do all to fight for its survival in a system that clearly does not respect the club.

Besides statistics can be framed to argue anyway you want. I could say Whitney Houston is the best artist of all-time as she holds the record for the most consecutive number 1 hits. And then I could put that statistics out completely overlooking any other stat such as the biggest album sale, band with the most number 1s, etc. His stats are framed to supplement his argument.

Here's some stats for you "Champion Data Expert" - Lyons didn't even get in the top 10 of the Adelaide's b&f even if you do "normalise his numbers out over a full match."

You been watching Sargon of Akkad's youtube videos?

 

[La Dispute]

I think there is a misconception amongst some that because we lose an A Grade player, we have to get an A Grader back.

Lyons and pick 13 is slight unders for Gibbs, but not the highway robbery some are making out, but if we can get another second rounder thrown in too, i'd take the deal, this whole negotiating from a position of strength stance is a load of cobbers imo,

Freeing up a sizeable chunk of the salary cap with Gibbs' departure is another fringe benefit.

There is no misconception. Inevitably if you trade an A-grader out, particularly one as important as Gibbs, you want to be compensated properly.

Yes, Pick 13 and Lyons is slight unders and why should we accept slight unders? Adelaide are making the play and to this stage have sat on their hands and waited for us to fold instead of getting creative and grasping something else that would be of use to us. Smacks of entitlement and intimidation.

 

[Smalls0304]

Adelaide lose nothing by not getting Gibbs

I dont agree with this. It's obvious they are in their premiership window and have a signifcant midfield need that Gibbs fits. Unless they are a chance to get Rockliff which by all reports wont happen, Gibbs is the only A-grader that they could get. They can either go into next year with the same team, Thompson just hanging on for another year and hope they improve enough to beat a GWS, Doggies, Cats or Swans (which they wont) or pay overs in an attempt to win a flag. They lose by not getting Gibbs

 

[The Flying Doormat]

I think there is a misconception amongst some that because we lose an A Grade player, we have to get an A Grader back.

Lyons and pick 13 is slight unders for Gibbs, but not the highway robbery some are making out, but if we can get another second rounder thrown in too, i'd take the deal, this whole negotiating from a position of strength stance is a load of cobbers imo,

Freeing up a sizeable chunk of the salary cap with Gibbs' departure is another fringe benefit.

Lyons plus a first and a second?

 

[Arr0w]

Outlier, break-out year as a 24-year old. He might improve slightly and then regress. He isn't that good and he isn't worth trading into a team that already has a plethora of C-grade mids.

TBH, I don't care whether he is part of the deal or not, what I am trying to point out is how dismissive people are as to this kid's quality

I love how people dismiss all these names.

How about you tell me what deal you would be happy with as a minimum?